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On Tue, Feb 26, 2013 3:42 PM PST Liam Proven wrote:
On 26 February 2013 23:33, Liam Proven <lproven at
gmail.com> wrote:
I don't know how that got sent half-done!
Did you send it from a pi?
To a child
born in the developed world this century, the Web is part
of life, always there at megabit speeds, as ubiq
... as ubiquitous as air. Computers have GUIs, windows, taskbars etc,
and come with a web browser, as does even a cheap basic old phone or
pocket music player. Games are real-time 3D, even ones on a cheap 2-
or 3- generation old games console such as might be given to
preschoolers to play with.
No, a BBC Micro or anything from the 1980s is not a suitable teaching
tool. It is a flint axe when the kids grew up with sliced bread. It is
a dugout canoe when grandad and grandma go yachting at the weekend.
nobody uses flint axes. But they do fashion numerous tools and even build their own boats
sometimes.
The mere idea is laughably unrealistic.
If you are teaching a kid to drive, you don't teach them how to build
the car first.
But the first drivers of cars needed to know a lot more about them if they wanted
successful outings. You don't need to know a single thing about mechanics to drive.
But to be a mechanic.you do need to know how to dismantle and reassemble a car. The
"kids" already know how to "drive", turn on their computers and do
basic tasks. What in the world does that have to do with anything.
If you're teaching them to maintain a car, you
don't teach them how to
design and construct an engine first.
Another analogy that doesn't quite seem appropriate.
So, no, actually, tools like BASIC and assembly code
have no
relevance today, not really. Because the days when a BBC Micro was a
computer are so long ago that these kid's *parents* don't even really
remember them.
I took a class and my first foray into BASIC was on an Atari 400 w/membrane k/b. Rest
assured I will never forget.
A BBC Micro is not a computer any more, because it is
2013 now. People
live in space and have a Dynabook containing the entire Hitch-hiker's
Guide to the Galaxy in their pockets - it is normal for them to have
access to basically the entirety of human wisdom, wirelessly - because
even their parents don't remember phones that attached to *wires
coming out the wall* - because these are things so cheap that even the
kids in India and China are getting them now.
You engaging in delusion. At least 1/2 of the US still maintain landlines, in addition to
mobile phones. If you haven't been in a hurricane lately you may not be able to
appreciate their utility when cellular networks crap the bed.
Assembly code is equivalent to how to chip a sharp
arrowhead from a
piece of flint.
Every flippin thing that runs on any computer in the world is running assembly
instructions. Assembler or analysis thereof is NEVER going away.
BASIC is equivalent to learning how to smelt iron.
LOL and how many groups and community colleges are engaging in that these days. If
you're unaware foundry work has seen quite a resurgence in the last 15 years. And the
point being you still and for a long time will need people who understand the rudimentary
elements and processes that make up the tools we use every day. If for no other reason
they just are curious.
How ironic that just today I had an offline conversation about a 14 year old kid
who's fixing CGA monitors for extra cash!!!
And the Raspberry Pi is a kids' computer that is
cheaper than giving
them that old dusty Pentium 4 in the attic, because [a] you'd have to
get the P4 working again and install software on it, [b] it's a huge
noisy ugly piece of *office equipment* and not something a kid would
want to play with, and mostly because
[c] The Raspberry Pi costs less to buy than the electricity used by
that P4 running every evening for a significant chunk of a year.
But it doesn't teach bare fundamentals. That's the point everyone is trying to
make it seems.
--
Liam Proven ? Profile:
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