6 Nov
2005
6 Nov
'05
6:42 a.m.
I've noticed that what passes for 3.5" blank media nowadays is downright
awful. I've got a "work diskette" that's a Verbatim Datalife with a
date
code of sometime in 1997. Like the Energizer bunny, it just keeps going
and going. Newly-purchased media seems to last about 3 months of use,
tops.
Are there any sources for good reliable NEW media?
Cheers,
Chuck
6 Nov
6 Nov
3:31 p.m.
Chuck Guzis wrote:
I've noticed that what passes for 3.5" blank
media nowadays is downright
awful. I've got a "work diskette" that's a Verbatim Datalife with a
date
code of sometime in 1997. Like the Energizer bunny, it just keeps going
and going. Newly-purchased media seems to last about 3 months of use,
tops.
Are there any sources for good reliable NEW media?
Look in the Yellow Pages for used office supply or office liquidation
dealers.
There's an office supply surplus here in Austin that I cruise at
least monthly for NOS floppy media. I've bought various formats 5.25"
disks there in the shrinkwrap for $0.25 to $1.00 a box, IBM-branded 2MB
(1.44MB) floppies for $3.00/100, and recently about 6 10-disk boxes of
DSDD 3.5" for $0.50 each.
Doc
4:02 p.m.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Doc Shipley" <doc at mdrconsult.com>
To: <General at mdrconsult.com>
Sent: Sunday, November 06, 2005 10:31 AM
Subject: Re: Reliable 3.5" DSHD diskettes
I think the best grade of disks went to professional duplicators. Since
floppies are pretty much obsolete these kind of places tend to sell their
stock for pennies to get them out of the way. I found one such duplicator
ditching 360K floppies on ebay for very little a few years ago (something
like $12 for 500 green 360K disks still in the shrink-wrap). Ofcourse they
tend to just have the floppies themselves and not the box and label found
in retail packaging.
I found a decent deal on Mac formatted 1.44 floppies earlier this year on
ebay, and they seem to be reliable so far.
Chuck Guzis wrote:
> I've noticed that what passes for 3.5" blank media nowadays is downright
> awful. I've got a "work diskette" that's a Verbatim Datalife with
a
date
code of
sometime in 1997. Like the Energizer bunny, it just keeps going
and going. Newly-purchased media seems to last about 3 months of use,
tops.
Are there any sources for good reliable NEW media?
Look in the Yellow Pages for used office supply or office liquidation
dealers.
There's an office supply surplus here in Austin that I cruise at
least monthly for NOS floppy media. I've bought various formats 5.25"
disks there in the shrinkwrap for $0.25 to $1.00 a box, IBM-branded 2MB
(1.44MB) floppies for $3.00/100, and recently about 6 10-disk boxes of
DSDD 3.5" for $0.50 each.
Doc 
6:24 p.m.
Sort of makes me wonder if the suppliers of newly-produced 8" diskettes are
as bad - but for ~$10 per disk, they'd better be!
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org]
On Behalf Of Teo Zenios
Sent: Sunday, November 06, 2005 10:02 AM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: Reliable 3.5" DSHD diskettes
----- Original Message -----
From: "Doc Shipley" <doc at mdrconsult.com>
To: <General at mdrconsult.com>
Sent: Sunday, November 06, 2005 10:31 AM
Subject: Re: Reliable 3.5" DSHD diskettes
I think the best grade of disks went to professional duplicators. Since
floppies are pretty much obsolete these kind of places tend to sell their
stock for pennies to get them out of the way. I found one such duplicator
ditching 360K floppies on ebay for very little a few years ago (something
like $12 for 500 green 360K disks still in the shrink-wrap). Ofcourse they
tend to just have the floppies themselves and not the box and label found
in retail packaging.
I found a decent deal on Mac formatted 1.44 floppies earlier this year on
ebay, and they seem to be reliable so far.
Chuck Guzis wrote:
> I've noticed that what passes for 3.5" blank media nowadays is downright
> awful. I've got a "work diskette" that's a Verbatim Datalife with
a
date
code of
sometime in 1997. Like the Energizer bunny, it just keeps going
and going. Newly-purchased media seems to last about 3 months of use,
tops.
Are there any sources for good reliable NEW media?
Look in the Yellow Pages for used office supply or office liquidation
dealers.
There's an office supply surplus here in Austin that I cruise at
least monthly for NOS floppy media. I've bought various formats 5.25"
disks there in the shrinkwrap for $0.25 to $1.00 a box, IBM-branded 2MB
(1.44MB) floppies for $3.00/100, and recently about 6 10-disk boxes of
DSDD 3.5" for $0.50 each.
Doc 
8 Nov
8 Nov
9:59 a.m.
New subject: Old disks. was RE: Reliable 3.5" DSHD diskettes
At 12:24 PM 11/6/05 -0600, you wrote:
Sort of makes me wonder if the suppliers of
newly-produced 8" diskettes are
as bad - but for ~$10 per disk, they'd better be!
FWIW I just sold a big box of 8" floppy disks for the DEC MINC computer.
They were all dated in the late '70s and up to about 1980. I was concerned
weather or not they were still readable but I got this from the buyer
yesterday. If I can still read 8" disks after 25 years why the
%(*&&^*&^%
can't they make 3.5" disks that are still readable after 2 weeks?!
"So far, I haven't found a single disk that isn't readable.
Interestingly enough, though, when I first booted a copy of the MINC
demo and tried to run programs, I kept getting "TRAP TO 10", an illegal
instruction trap. Hm. As was often done, my MINC was "upgraded" with
an 11/23 CPU (M8186). Reviewing the documentation, I saw several places
where instructions had changed between the 11/03 (M7270) and 11/23. I
rooted about my shop and, lo! I had an 11/03 CPU. I replaced the board,
and everything worked fine.
Well, almost everything. I tried running a couple of the graphics
programs, and no joy. Digging further, I discovered that the MINC BASIC
graphics routines are expecting a VT105 terminal (I'm using a VT420).
Hm. There's a VT125 on eBay.... :-) (I might just rewrite something
like Kermit to grok the VT105 escape codes, too.)
Thanks so much for putting these up on eBay! I'd been trying to find
them for a long time without so much as a glimmer of recognition.
Cheers -- Ian "
Joe
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org]
On Behalf Of Teo Zenios
Sent: Sunday, November 06, 2005 10:02 AM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: Reliable 3.5" DSHD diskettes
----- Original Message -----
From: "Doc Shipley" <doc at mdrconsult.com>
To: <General at mdrconsult.com>
Sent: Sunday, November 06, 2005 10:31 AM
Subject: Re: Reliable 3.5" DSHD diskettes
I think the best grade of disks went to professional duplicators. Since
floppies are pretty much obsolete these kind of places tend to sell their
stock for pennies to get them out of the way. I found one such duplicator
ditching 360K floppies on ebay for very little a few years ago (something
like $12 for 500 green 360K disks still in the shrink-wrap). Ofcourse they
tend to just have the floppies themselves and not the box and label found
in retail packaging.
I found a decent deal on Mac formatted 1.44 floppies earlier this year on
ebay, and they seem to be reliable so far.
Chuck Guzis wrote:
> I've noticed that what passes for 3.5" blank media nowadays is downright
> awful. I've got a "work diskette" that's a Verbatim Datalife with
a
date
code of
sometime in 1997. Like the Energizer bunny, it just keeps going
and going. Newly-purchased media seems to last about 3 months of use,
tops.
Are there any sources for good reliable NEW media?
Look in the Yellow Pages for used office supply or office liquidation
dealers.
There's an office supply surplus here in Austin that I cruise at
least monthly for NOS floppy media. I've bought various formats 5.25"
disks there in the shrinkwrap for $0.25 to $1.00 a box, IBM-branded 2MB
(1.44MB) floppies for $3.00/100, and recently about 6 10-disk boxes of
DSDD 3.5" for $0.50 each.
Doc 
6 Nov
6 Nov
4 p.m.
Chuck Guzis wrote:
I've noticed that what passes for 3.5" blank
media nowadays is downright
awful. I've got a "work diskette" that's a Verbatim Datalife with a
date
code of sometime in 1997. Like the Energizer bunny, it just keeps going
and going. Newly-purchased media seems to last about 3 months of use,
tops.
Are there any sources for good reliable NEW media?
I tend to use IBM-branded media. Works just ok.
But making sure to store them vertically definitely increases their
lifespan significantly.
Peace... Sridhar
8 Nov
8 Nov
10:05 a.m.
At 11:00 AM 11/6/05 -0500, you wrote:
Chuck Guzis wrote:
I wonder why that would make a difference?
Joe
I've noticed that what passes for 3.5"
blank media nowadays is downright
awful. I've got a "work diskette" that's a Verbatim Datalife with a
date
code of sometime in 1997. Like the Energizer bunny, it just keeps going
and going. Newly-purchased media seems to last about 3 months of use,
tops.
Are there any sources for good reliable NEW media?
I tend to use IBM-branded media. Works just ok.
But making sure to store them vertically definitely increases their
lifespan significantly.
Peace... Sridhar
3:14 p.m.
Joe R. wrote:
At 11:00 AM 11/6/05 -0500, you wrote:
I really have no idea, but I've proven it to my own satisfaction.
Peace... Sridhar
Chuck Guzis wrote:
I wonder why that would make a difference? I've noticed that what passes for 3.5"
blank media nowadays is downright
awful. I've got a "work diskette" that's a Verbatim Datalife with a
date
code of sometime in 1997. Like the Energizer bunny, it just keeps going
and going. Newly-purchased media seems to last about 3 months of use,
tops.
Are there any sources for good reliable NEW media?
I tend to use IBM-branded media. Works just ok.
But making sure to store them vertically definitely increases their
lifespan significantly. 
6 Nov
6 Nov
10:45 p.m.
I've noticed that what passes for 3.5" blank media nowadays is downright
This is a common moan here. I've noticed it too -- as I am fond of
pointing out, about 20 years ago I bought some 5.25" disks for my TRS-80
model 1. THose disks cost me (then) \pounds 3.00 each, and my Model 1
stored 88K on them (single sided, 35 cylinders, single density).
Thing is, those disks are still readable. I wish I could pay that sort of
price _now_ for a 3.5" disk and get something that I could read back
again in <n> years time. My data is worth a lot more than that.
(Oh and don't tell me to use CD-Rs or DVDs, or whatever. I've yet to find
such devives with an HPIL interface (for example)).
-tony
7 Nov
7 Nov
7:36 a.m.
On 11/6/2005 at 10:45 PM ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk wrote:
Thing is, those disks are still readable. I wish I
could pay that sort of
price _now_ for a 3.5" disk and get something that I could read back
again in <n> years time. My data is worth a lot more than that.
...and most of my 8" floppies are readable error-free after between 25-30
years.
(Oh and don't tell me to use CD-Rs or DVDs, or
whatever. I've yet to find
such devives with an HPIL interface (for example)).
CD-R's are going the way of floppies--there seems to be a drive toward the
cheapest price, regardless of quality or lack thereof. I submitted to
temptation after finding a coupon redeemable at the local Office Depot that
would reward me with a spindle of 100 CD-Rs for what amounted to $0. What
miserable trash they were--after awhile I determined that my time was worth
more than the trouble and went back to Mitsui CD-Rs.
What I'd like a straw poll on is who makes the best new 3.5" D2HD floppies.
Imation, Maxell, Sony, Nashua, Verbatim....?
HP-branded floppies used to be pretty good. I just recovered an operating
diskette for an X-ray machine that had parts of the medium so worn that you
could see through it. I think we got what was needed, though. FWIW, I
think the machine was powered by something very akin to a Ampro Little
Board...
Cheers,
Chuck
3:36 p.m.
I determined that my time was worth more than the
trouble and went
back to Mitsui CD-Rs.
What I'd like a straw poll on is who makes the best new 3.5" D2HD
floppies.
Most important to me is to determine the best CD-R made and
how to obtain them. They are useful for archiving images of those
diskettes, for example. And much much more...
The Mitsui name does come up alot here, next is how to obtain them.
John A.
3:47 p.m.
John Allain wrote:
http://www.mam-a.com/
Look for the online store link.
Peace... Sridhar
I determined
that my time was worth more than the trouble and went
back to Mitsui CD-Rs.
What I'd like a straw poll on is who makes the best new 3.5" D2HD
floppies.
Most important to me is to determine the best CD-R made and
how to obtain them. They are useful for archiving images of those
diskettes, for example. And much much more...
The Mitsui name does come up alot here, next is how to obtain them.
8 Nov
8 Nov
10:02 a.m.
At 10:45 PM 11/6/05 +0000, you wrote:
Hmmm. I have a couple of HP-IB MO drives and a HP-IL to HP-IB converter.
I wonder???
Joe
I've noticed that what passes for 3.5" blank media nowadays is downright
This is a common moan here. I've noticed it too -- as I am fond of
pointing out, about 20 years ago I bought some 5.25" disks for my TRS-80
model 1. THose disks cost me (then) \pounds 3.00 each, and my Model 1
stored 88K on them (single sided, 35 cylinders, single density).
Thing is, those disks are still readable. I wish I could pay that sort of
price _now_ for a 3.5" disk and get something that I could read back
again in <n> years time. My data is worth a lot more than that.
(Oh and don't tell me to use CD-Rs or DVDs, or whatever. I've yet to find
such devives with an HPIL interface (for example)).
-tony
3:12 p.m.
Joe R. wrote:
At 10:45 PM 11/6/05 +0000, you wrote:
Hmmm. I have a couple of HP-IB MO drives and a HP-IL to HP-IB converter.
I wonder???
Also, I know for a fact that there are HP-IB CD-ROM drives because I
have one.
Peace... Sridhar
I've
noticed that what passes for 3.5" blank media nowadays is downright
This is a common moan here. I've noticed it too -- as I am fond of
pointing out, about 20 years ago I bought some 5.25" disks for my TRS-80
model 1. THose disks cost me (then) \pounds 3.00 each, and my Model 1
stored 88K on them (single sided, 35 cylinders, single density).
Thing is, those disks are still readable. I wish I could pay that sort of
price _now_ for a 3.5" disk and get something that I could read back
again in <n> years time. My data is worth a lot more than that.
(Oh and don't tell me to use CD-Rs or DVDs, or whatever. I've yet to find
such devives with an HPIL interface (for example)).
10:23 a.m.
At 10:12 AM 11/8/05 -0500, you wrote:
Joe R. wrote:
I have one too but it's not CD-R or CD-RW. FWIW I've been lucky enough
to find several HP-IB drives that use Bernoulli disks, MO disks and other
rewriteable media. :-)
Joe
At 10:45 PM 11/6/05 +0000, you wrote:
Hmmm. I have a couple of HP-IB MO drives and a HP-IL to HP-IB converter.
I wonder???
Also, I know for a fact that there are HP-IB CD-ROM drives because I
have one. I've
noticed that what passes for 3.5" blank media nowadays is downright
This is a common moan here. I've noticed it too -- as I am fond of
pointing out, about 20 years ago I bought some 5.25" disks for my TRS-80
model 1. THose disks cost me (then) \pounds 3.00 each, and my Model 1
stored 88K on them (single sided, 35 cylinders, single density).
Thing is, those disks are still readable. I wish I could pay that sort of
price _now_ for a 3.5" disk and get something that I could read back
again in <n> years time. My data is worth a lot more than that.
(Oh and don't tell me to use CD-Rs or DVDs, or whatever. I've yet to find
such devives with an HPIL interface (for example)).
Peace... Sridhar
3:37 p.m.
Joe R. wrote:
At 10:12 AM 11/8/05 -0500, you wrote:
My point is that if the goal is to back up machines which only have an
HP-IL interface for archival purposes, one could use floppies to get the
data onto a machine that would have the ability to write the data onto a
CD. It then wouldn't be particularly difficult to read that CD in an
HP-IL-only machine.
Peace... Sridhar
Joe R. wrote:
I have one too but it's not CD-R or CD-RW. FWIW I've been lucky enough
to find several HP-IB drives that use Bernoulli disks, MO disks and other
rewriteable media. :-) At 10:45 PM 11/6/05 +0000, you wrote:
Also, I know for a fact that there are HP-IB CD-ROM drives because I
have one. >I've noticed that what passes for
3.5" blank media nowadays is downright
This is a common moan here. I've noticed it too -- as I am fond of
pointing out, about 20 years ago I bought some 5.25" disks for my TRS-80
model 1. THose disks cost me (then) \pounds 3.00 each, and my Model 1
stored 88K on them (single sided, 35 cylinders, single density).
Thing is, those disks are still readable. I wish I could pay that sort of
price _now_ for a 3.5" disk and get something that I could read back
again in <n> years time. My data is worth a lot more than that.
(Oh and don't tell me to use CD-Rs or DVDs, or whatever. I've yet to find
such devives with an HPIL interface (for example)).
Hmmm. I have a couple of HP-IB MO drives and a HP-IL to HP-IB converter.
I wonder???
9 p.m.
(Oh and
don't tell me to use CD-Rs or DVDs, or whatever. I've yet to find
such devives with an HPIL interface (for example)).
Hmmm. I have a couple of HP-IB MO drives and a HP-IL to HP-IB converter.
I wonder???
6:52 p.m.
At 09:00 PM 11/8/05 +0000, you wrote:
Well, the software is going to be a big problem. Most calculators are not
going to recognise a device on the wrong side of an 82169 converter as a
mass storage device. And said device is not going to talk the Modified
Filbert Protocol that the calculator is expecting anyway.
Bummer! I'd been thinking for years about trying that. Oh well it's a
good thing that I have plenty of 9114 and HP-IL cassette drives. Now if I
could just find a GOOD source of those darned tapes!
Joe
(Oh and don't tell me to use CD-Rs or DVDs, or
whatever. I've yet to find
such devives with an HPIL interface (for example)).
Hmmm. I have a couple of HP-IB MO drives and a HP-IL to HP-IB converter.
I wonder???
-tony
10 Nov
10 Nov
12:18 a.m.
Bummer! I'd been thinking for years about
trying that. Oh well it's a
good thing that I have plenty of 9114 and HP-IL cassette drives. Now if I
could just find a GOOD source of those darned tapes!
I'd settle for a source of good tapes ;-). Most of them have got pressure
pad preoblems by now, alas. This can be cured (I wrote an article in the
HPCC journal about doing this), but I am not sure how long-lived the
result is.
Personally, I only use the 82161 tape drive to read tapes that somebody
else gices me. I don't use it as a serious mass storage device for my own
programs.
-tony
8 Nov
8 Nov
3:14 p.m.
On 11/5/05, Chuck Guzis <cclist at sydex.com> wrote:
I've noticed that what passes for 3.5" blank
media nowadays is downright
awful. I've got a "work diskette" that's a Verbatim Datalife with a
date
code of sometime in 1997. Like the Energizer bunny, it just keeps going
and going. Newly-purchased media seems to last about 3 months of use,
tops.
Are there any sources for good reliable NEW media?
Cheers,
Chuck
Have you looked at http://www.floppydisk.com ?
- Mike
3:39 p.m.
On 11/8/2005 at 8:14 AM Mike Maginnis wrote:
Have you looked at http://www.floppydisk.com ?
No, but I just did. What does that have to do with "reliable"? There are
sellers on eBay selling surplus duplicator stock for less.
To make it very clear--I don't care if the disk performs well on the first
write or read. I tend to re-use a lot of my stock over and over again and
it seems that most new disks don't tolerate this very well. However, older
"brand names" disks do.
Why is this? What modern "brand names' perform well under hard use?
Cheers,
Chuck
3:43 p.m.
On 11/8/05, Chuck Guzis <cclist at sydex.com> wrote:
On 11/8/2005 at 8:14 AM Mike Maginnis wrote:
Sorry, I should have been more clear. I've used them in the past -
over the several hundred floppies I've purchased from them in the past
few years, I've had a low (<10 per 100) failure rate.
- Mike
Have you looked at http://www.floppydisk.com ?
No, but I just did. What does that have to do with "reliable"? There are
sellers on eBay selling surplus duplicator stock for less.
To make it very clear--I don't care if the disk performs well on the first
write or read. I tend to re-use a lot of my stock over and over again and
it seems that most new disks don't tolerate this very well. However, older
"brand names" disks do.
Why is this? What modern "brand names' perform well under hard use?
Cheers,
Chuck
5:53 p.m.
On 11/8/2005 at 8:43 AM Mike Maginnis wrote:
Sorry, I should have been more clear. I've used
them in the past -
over the several hundred floppies I've purchased from them in the past
few years, I've had a low (<10 per 100) failure rate.
Just trying to toss a few ideas around here...
I wonder if the situation has degraded to the point where there are only
one or two suppliers of the bulk (sheet) medium, so it may well be more of
the same thing regardless of brand. There used to be very visible
differences in coatings--some were almost translucent, where others were
opaque and color (light brown to almost black) varied. I don't notice that
any longer.
For those of you using VHS cartridges, has the quality of those also
deteriorated over what was available 20 years ago?
A couple of the duplicator supply places that I called about media could
only tell me that their stuff arrived in boxes labeled either "Made in
China" or "Made in Taiwan".
Cheers,
Chuck
6997
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22 comments
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allain＠panix.com -
ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk -
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doc＠mdrconsult.com -
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rigdonj＠cfl.rr.com -
teoz＠neo.rr.com