11 Jan
2005
11 Jan
'05
3:36 a.m.
http://news.com.com/How+the+Mac+was+born%2C+and+other+tales/2008-1082_3-552…
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11 Jan
11 Jan
5:57 a.m.
Nothing "supposedly" about it, most of the anecdotes ring true. You can read
the entire book at www.folklore.org, since that's where the content comes from.
Computer Collector Newsletter wrote:
http://news.com.com/How+the+Mac+was+born%2C+and+other+tales/2008-1082_3-552…
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Jim Leonard (trixter(a)oldskool.org) http://www.oldskool.org/
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12 Jan
12 Jan
4:35 a.m.
On Tue, 11 Jan 2005, Jim Leonard wrote:
Nothing "supposedly" about it, most of the
anecdotes ring true. You can read
the entire book at www.folklore.org, since that's where the content comes from.
One thing that doesn't ring true for me is when he says the not one line of
code was taken from Xerox. I was involved in a project to make a LAB interface
(A-D/D-A I/O bits) for the first (128K) MAC. The earliest development software
was full of Xerox copyright notices...
Computer Collector Newsletter wrote:
Peter Wallace
Mesa Electronics
http://news.com.com/How+the+Mac+was+born%2C+and+other+tales/2008-1082_3-552…
=====
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Jim Leonard (trixter(a)oldskool.org) http://www.oldskool.org/
Want to help an ambitious games project? http://www.mobygames.com/
Or check out some trippy MindCandy at http://www.mindcandydvd.com/
11:41 a.m.
Peter wrote:
One thing that doesn't ring true for me is when he
says the not one line
of code was taken from Xerox. I was involved in a project to make a LAB
interface (A-D/D-A I/O bits) for the first (128K) MAC. The earliest
development software was full of Xerox copyright notices...
I was also an early Mac developer, back when you had to use a Lisa to
develop for the Mac. I don't recall seeing any Xerox copyright notices.
If there were only a few I could believe I might have overlooked some,
but I don't think it could have been "full of" such notices.
The Pascal compiler had a copyright notice from the company that wrote
it, but other than that most of the notices said "Apple Computer".
The only thing I remember with Xerox notices was the Smalltalk-80
port.
It would have been really difficult for Apple's engineers to use any
code from Xerox even if they'd wanted to do so. The Xerox code was
mostly written in BCPL, Mesa, and Smalltalk, and Apple didn't have
compilers for those (though they did port Smalltalk, which was
incredibly slow on the Mac). The Mac code was written in a little bit
of Pascal and a whole lot of 68K assembly.
Eric
12:07 p.m.
On Wed, 12 Jan 2005, Eric Smith wrote:
Peter wrote:
I will talk to the guy that was doing the software development. It may have
been some other linkage to Xerox other than a copyright notice. It really
stuck in my mind at the time.
Peter Wallace
One thing that doesn't ring true for me is
when he says the not one line
of code was taken from Xerox. I was involved in a project to make a LAB
interface (A-D/D-A I/O bits) for the first (128K) MAC. The earliest
development software was full of Xerox copyright notices...
I was also an early Mac developer, back when you had to use a Lisa to
develop for the Mac. I don't recall seeing any Xerox copyright notices.
If there were only a few I could believe I might have overlooked some,
but I don't think it could have been "full of" such notices. 
11 Jan
11 Jan
8:56 a.m.
Computer Collector Newsletter wrote:
http://news.com.com/How+the+Mac+was+born%2C+and+other+tales/2008-1082_3-552…
1.html?tag=nefd.lede
huh. The world according to Andy.
Certainly one side of the story, but not the only side I suspect.
I'd be curious to hear what Steve Capps and Joanna Hoffman think of the
book :-)
(I remember being yelled at by mr. jobs in 1985. eeeyow. blew my hair back!)
-brad
9:07 a.m.
You were yelled at by Jobs? Please share the tale with the rest of us. :)
If it's any consolation, I was once "Ellison'd" at an Oracle press
conference
in 2001. My question was about the impact of open-source infrastructure and
open-source databases like MySQL, etc. He said the question was "stupid".
LOL, but a short time later, Oracle started a big marketing push about Linux.
--- Brad Parker <brad(a)heeltoe.com> wrote:
Computer Collector Newsletter wrote:
http://news.com.com/How+the+Mac+was+born%2C+and+other+tales/2008-1082_3-552…
=====
Tell your friends about the Computer Collector Newsletter!
-- It's free and we'll never send spam or share your email address
-- Publishing every Monday(-ish), ask about writing for us
-- Mainframes to videogames, hardware and software, we cover it all
-- W: http://news.computercollector.com E: news(a)computercollector.com
-- 644 readers and counting!
1.html?tag=nefd.lede
huh. The world according to Andy.
Certainly one side of the story, but not the only side I suspect.
I'd be curious to hear what Steve Capps and Joanna Hoffman think of the
book :-)
(I remember being yelled at by mr. jobs in 1985. eeeyow. blew my hair
back!)
-brad
12:25 p.m.
On Tue, 11 Jan 2005, John Foust wrote:
At 02:07 PM 1/11/2005, Computer Collector Newsletter
wrote:
I haven't (yet) been yelled at by Jobs but I have been given a dirty look
by Bill Gates.
--
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
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You were yelled at by Jobs? Please share the tale
with the rest of us. :)
This is not a rare event. I would guess there must be a web site
devoted to such tales. They happen/ed regularly. 
3:09 p.m.
On Tue, 11 Jan 2005, Vintage Computer Festival wrote:
I haven't (yet) been yelled at by Jobs but I have
been given a dirty look
by Bill Gates.
Yeah? My brother Karl is a *dead ringer* for Gates. Really. But he
has't yelled at me in recent memory.
NOW I think I've drifted off topic! :-)
3:36 p.m.
Vintage Computer Festival wrote:
On Tue, 11 Jan 2005, John Foust wrote:
This is perhaps bad to tell a second hand story, but it is on thread and
I'll keep it short.
A good friend/mac fanatic since 1985 was quite excited that an apple
store was opening in chicago. he went just about every day for a week.
after a couple weeks he called the store at opening time to ask if
they had something or other in stock. they were supposed to open at
10am. he called at 10am, and the phone rang and rang. he called again,
same thing. finally, at 10:05 someone finally answered. perturbed, he
wrote an email to steve jobs to inform him that the chicago store was
slacking off. the reply came minutes later, personally from steve jobs:
Dennis, you are an asshole.
Steve
At 02:07 PM 1/11/2005, Computer Collector
Newsletter wrote:
I haven't (yet) been yelled at by Jobs but I have been given a dirty look
by Bill Gates. You were yelled at by Jobs? Please share the tale
with the rest of us. :)
This is not a rare event. I would guess there must be a web site
devoted to such tales. They happen/ed regularly. 
3:46 p.m.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Battle" <frustum(a)pacbell.net>
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
<cctalk(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2005 9:36 PM
Subject: Re: How the Mac was born... supposedly...
You shave made him print it out and then go frame the email.
What did your friend the Mac fanatic say about this comment from his idle?
Vintage Computer Festival wrote:
> On Tue, 11 Jan 2005, John Foust wrote:
>
>
>>At 02:07 PM 1/11/2005, Computer Collector Newsletter wrote:
>>
>>>You were yelled at by Jobs? Please share the tale with the rest of us.
:)
>>
>>This is not a rare event. I would guess there must be a web site
>>devoted to such tales. They happen/ed regularly.
>
>
> I haven't (yet) been yelled at by Jobs but I have been given a dirty
look
by Bill Gates.
This is perhaps bad to tell a second hand story, but it is on thread and
I'll keep it short.
A good friend/mac fanatic since 1985 was quite excited that an apple
store was opening in chicago. he went just about every day for a week.
after a couple weeks he called the store at opening time to ask if
they had something or other in stock. they were supposed to open at
10am. he called at 10am, and the phone rang and rang. he called again,
same thing. finally, at 10:05 someone finally answered. perturbed, he
wrote an email to steve jobs to inform him that the chicago store was
slacking off. the reply came minutes later, personally from steve jobs:
Dennis, you are an asshole.
Steve
4:27 p.m.
Teo Zenios wrote:
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Battle" <frustum(a)pacbell.net>
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
<cctalk(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2005 9:36 PM
Subject: Re: How the Mac was born... supposedly...
You shave made him print it out and then go frame the email.
What did your friend the Mac fanatic say about this comment from his idle?
My friend was quite proud and honored. He had long heard that Jobs does
personally answer a fraction of his email, plus he figured some
subordinate would not have permission to call someone an asshole and
sign Jobs' name to it.
The net result is my friend has mailed Jobs a number of times since on
various topics. He received one other reply, but I forget what it was
about. I think Jobs response was something like, "Huh?"
Vintage Computer Festival wrote:
>On Tue, 11 Jan 2005, John Foust wrote:
>
>
>
>>At 02:07 PM 1/11/2005, Computer Collector Newsletter wrote:
>>
>>
>>>You were yelled at by Jobs? Please share the tale with the rest of us.
:)
>>This is not a rare event. I would guess
there must be a web site
>>devoted to such tales. They happen/ed regularly.
>
>
>I haven't (yet) been yelled at by Jobs but I have been given a dirty
look
by Bill
Gates.
This is perhaps bad to tell a second hand story, but it is on thread and
I'll keep it short.
A good friend/mac fanatic since 1985 was quite excited that an apple
store was opening in chicago. he went just about every day for a week.
after a couple weeks he called the store at opening time to ask if
they had something or other in stock. they were supposed to open at
10am. he called at 10am, and the phone rang and rang. he called again,
same thing. finally, at 10:05 someone finally answered. perturbed, he
wrote an email to steve jobs to inform him that the chicago store was
slacking off. the reply came minutes later, personally from steve jobs:
Dennis, you are an asshole.
Steve
12 Jan
12 Jan
4:53 a.m.
perturbed, he wrote an email to steve jobs to inform
him
Interesting story, but I find it hard to believe that emailing outside
of academic and military circles was done much at all back in 1985.
Oh yeah, and within a given company too, but seldom outside it.
I'd believe this story if it was first set-up with how the two got email
in the first place.
John A.
6:07 a.m.
On Wednesday 12 January 2005 9:53 am, John Allain wrote:
Actually, I think the point was that the friend has been a mac fanatic SINCE
1985, but not that this HAPPENED in 1985. I know the Mac store in chicago
only opened a couple years ago.
perturbed, he
wrote an email to steve jobs to inform him
Interesting story, but I find it hard to believe that emailing outside
of academic and military circles was done much at all back in 1985.
Oh yeah, and within a given company too, but seldom outside it.
I'd believe this story if it was first set-up with how the two got email
in the first place.
John A.
--
Dan Wright
(dtwright(a)uiuc.edu)
(http://www.uiuc.edu/~dtwright)
"we are content if we can describe a multitude of other things in terms of...
fundamental incomprehensibilities. science is an activity that takes place on
the shore of an infinite sea of mystery."
chet raymo, "doctor seuss and doctor einstein"
6:19 a.m.
Dan Wright wrote:
On Wednesday 12 January 2005 9:53 am, John Allain
wrote:
Actually, I think the point was that the friend has been a mac fanatic SINCE
1985, but not that this HAPPENED in 1985. I know the Mac store in chicago
only opened a couple years ago.
Dan, you are spot on. Sorry, I thought it was clear that my friend was
a fanatic since 1985, but the story was recent.
perturbed,
he wrote an email to steve jobs to inform him
Interesting story, but I find it hard to believe that emailing outside
of academic and military circles was done much at all back in 1985.
Oh yeah, and within a given company too, but seldom outside it.
I'd believe this story if it was first set-up with how the two got email
in the first place. John A.
6:18 a.m.
John Allain wrote:
The apple store opened in chicago two years ago or so, not 1985.
I used email at a silicon valley company in 1986 to communicate with
outside parties. It wasn't particularly academic, nor military.
perturbed, he
wrote an email to steve jobs to inform him
Interesting story, but I find it hard to believe that emailing outside
of academic and military circles was done much at all back in 1985.
Oh yeah, and within a given company too, but seldom outside it.
I'd believe this story if it was first set-up with how the two got email
in the first place.
John A.
6:24 a.m.
"John Allain" wrote:
I think you are mistaken. Certainly the milnet/arpanet email was flying
and outside that uucp mail (harvard!gcc-milo!brad :-) was gatewayed all
over the place.
I'm sure you could check the uucp maps - a quick google search shows
apple.UUCP existed in 84.
I was using uucp email in 84 and I could swear there was stuff coming in
and out of apple. I don't we sent anything confidential back and forth
but I'm pretty sure I got personal stuff from people at apple.
I was sure sending regular email to a girlfriend at at&t in '83 :-)
-brad
perturbed, he
wrote an email to steve jobs to inform him
Interesting story, but I find it hard to believe that emailing outside
of academic and military circles was done much at all back in 1985. 
8:17 a.m.
John wrote:
Maybe Tom Jennings can explain it to you :-)
Paul Pennington
Augusta, Georgia
perturbed, he
wrote an email to steve jobs to inform him
Interesting story, but I find it hard to believe that emailing outside
of academic and military circles was done much at all back in 1985. 
8:45 a.m.
John wrote:
Maybe Tom Jennings can explain it to you :-)
Paul Pennington
Augusta, Georgia
I think Dan Rather has some emails dating back to the 70's written in HTML
:-)
Randy
perturbed, he wrote an email to steve jobs to inform him
Interesting story, but I find it hard to believe that emailing outside
of academic and military circles was done much at all back in 1985.
4:10 a.m.
On Tue, 11 Jan 2005, Jim Battle wrote:
A good friend/mac fanatic since 1985 was quite excited
that an apple
store was opening in chicago. he went just about every day for a week.
after a couple weeks he called the store at opening time to ask if
they had something or other in stock. they were supposed to open at
10am. he called at 10am, and the phone rang and rang. he called again,
same thing. finally, at 10:05 someone finally answered. perturbed, he
wrote an email to steve jobs to inform him that the chicago store was
slacking off. the reply came minutes later, personally from steve jobs:
Dennis, you are an asshole.
Steve
I'd have to agree with Steve on this one.
--
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org
[ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ]
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4:39 p.m.
At 11:01 AM 1/12/2005, Brad Parker wrote:
Ah for the day when Steve Jobs and Scott McNealy could
read their own email
and respond...
In the spring of '94, I sent a short message to billg(a)microsoft.com
and he answered the same day. A few months later, the Wall Street
Journal published his email address and that was all over.
- John
7203
days inactive
7204
days old
22 comments
14 participants
participants (14)
-
allain＠panix.com -
brad＠heeltoe.com -
dtwright＠uiuc.edu -
eric＠brouhaha.com -
frustum＠pacbell.net -
jfoust＠threedee.com -
news＠computercollector.com -
paulpenn＠knology.net -
pcw＠mesanet.com -
randy＠s100-manuals.com -
teoz＠neo.rr.com -
tomj＠wps.com -
trixter＠oldskool.org -
vcf＠siconic.com