29 Apr
2019
29 Apr
'19
7:18 a.m.
From: Zane Healy
How safe is it to put modern rack rails (HP) in a
classic DEC Rack?
May I ask why you're doing that? Are you trying to mount modern units
in an old rack?
If you're trying to mount old units (RK05's, BA11's, etc) in an old rack,
I've been working on finding old slide-mounts; e.g. I know the thing
to order for RK05's.
Noel
29 Apr
29 Apr
10:19 a.m.
On Apr 29, 2019, at 7:18 AM, Noel Chiappa via cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
I think part of the answer is that I'm going in circles. :-) I have 4 DEC Racks, but
all four are full, and since the initial post, I?ve concluded they?re off-limits. I don?t
have any RK05?s, and the RL01?s and RL02?s will stay in DEC Racks, as will the majority of
the DEC HW.
The primary objective is to mount a DL380G7 and a 1GigE switch.
I also have some desktops that I?d ideally like in the rack, and maybe a MicroVAX III and
PDP-11 or two (those are if I go the route of a real rack).
Earlier in this thread, I?d pretty much convinced myself to use a wooden rack that I have
several of. Then I remembered why I moved from those to Gorilla Racks. The wooden racks
are pretty unstable.
I?ve found good deals on a variety of modern racks at a local place. I?m now strongly
leaning towards this option.
My next question is, what options are there for putting a shelf in a standard rack? My
google-fu seems to be failing me. I?ve I?m going to put any desktops in the rack, I?ll
need a shelf or two, at a minimum.
Zane
From: Zane Healy
How safe is it to put modern rack rails (HP) in a
classic DEC Rack?
May I ask why you're doing that? Are you trying to mount modern units
in an old rack?
If you're trying to mount old units (RK05's, BA11's, etc) in an old rack,
I've been working on finding old slide-mounts; e.g. I know the thing
to order for RK05's.
Noel 
10:24 a.m.
On Apr 29, 2019, at 1:19 PM, Zane Healy via cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
...
My next question is, what options are there for putting a shelf in a standard rack? My
google-fu seems to be failing me. I?ve I?m going to put any desktops in the rack, I?ll
need a shelf or two, at a minimum.
I don't have any myself, but I've seen plenty of rack mounted shelves in the racks
at the office. Those are modern racks, but I'd assume they come in a range of sizes.
I could use some for putting oscilloscopes etc. in my H960.
paul
12:37 p.m.
On Apr 29, 2019, at 10:24 AM, Paul Koning
<paulkoning at comcast.net> wrote:
I finally figured out how to pull up shelves on eBay. Looks like outfitting a rack with
shelves will likely cost more than the rack itself, but give me solution that will make it
perfect for me.
Zane
On Apr 29, 2019, at 1:19 PM, Zane Healy via
cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
...
My next question is, what options are there for putting a shelf in a standard rack? My
google-fu seems to be failing me. I?ve I?m going to put any desktops in the rack, I?ll
need a shelf or two, at a minimum.
I don't have any myself, but I've seen plenty of rack mounted shelves in the
racks at the office. Those are modern racks, but I'd assume they come in a range of
sizes. I could use some for putting oscilloscopes etc. in my H960.
paul 
1:52 p.m.
On Mon, Apr 29, 2019 at 1:37 PM Zane Healy via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
wrote:
While it might not be useful for all applications, I've gone down to the
hardware store and purchased "angle iron" and cut it to length. I then
drill a whole through it in a couple of places and bolt it to the rack.
It's not as nice as sliders, but it gets the job done for all the systems
I've used in the past couple of decades. It wouldn't work well, however,
for systems that have big heavy disk drives, for tape drives, etc. It also
burns 1 U in the rack. For me that's not been an issue but others have
complained about that in the past when I've suggested this.
Warner
On Apr 29, 2019, at 10:24 AM, Paul Koning
<paulkoning at comcast.net>
wrote:
> On Apr 29, 2019, at 1:19 PM, Zane Healy via cctalk <
cctalk at
classiccmp.org> wrote:
>
> ...
> My next question is, what options are there for putting a shelf in a
standard
rack? My google-fu seems to be failing me. I?ve I?m going to put
any desktops in the rack, I?ll need a shelf or two, at a minimum.
I don't have any myself, but I've seen plenty of rack mounted shelves in
the racks at the office. Those are modern racks, but I'd assume they come
in a range of sizes. I could use some for putting oscilloscopes etc. in my
H960.
paul
I finally figured out how to pull up shelves on eBay. Looks like
outfitting a rack with shelves will likely cost more than the rack itself,
but give me solution that will make it perfect for me.
4:05 p.m.
On Apr 29, 2019, at 1:52 PM, Warner Losh <imp at
bsdimp.com> wrote:
While it might not be useful for all applications, I've gone down to the hardware
store and purchased "angle iron" and cut it to length. I then drill a whole
through it in a couple of places and bolt it to the rack. It's not as nice as sliders,
but it gets the job done for all the systems I've used in the past couple of decades.
It wouldn't work well, however, for systems that have big heavy disk drives, for tape
drives, etc. It also burns 1 U in the rack. For me that's not been an issue but others
have complained about that in the past when I've suggested this.
Warner
I figure that loosing 1U will be less of a concern than the insulating effects of putting
a sheet of wood in there. I?m giving real consideration to jury rigging something.
I?ll pick up the rack and then go from there.
Zane
4:10 p.m.
On Mon, Apr 29, 2019 at 5:05 PM Zane Healy <healyzh at avanthar.com> wrote:
On Apr 29, 2019, at 1:52 PM, Warner Losh <imp at bsdimp.com> wrote:
While it might not be useful for all applications, I've gone down to the
hardware store and purchased "angle iron" and cut it to length. I then
drill a whole through it in a couple of places and bolt it to the rack.
It's not as nice as sliders, but it gets the job done for all the systems
I've used in the past couple of decades. It wouldn't work well, however,
for systems that have big heavy disk drives, for tape drives, etc. It also
burns 1 U in the rack. For me that's not been an issue but others have
complained about that in the past when I've suggested this.
Warner
I figure that loosing 1U will be less of a concern than the insulating
effects of putting a sheet of wood in there. I?m giving real consideration
to jury rigging something.
I?ll pick up the rack and then go from there.
I put wood there too :) But only when the chassis is venting front to back
(or back to front) as opposed to top to bottom... Though it's been a long
time since I've seen top to bottom...
Warner
5:20 p.m.
On Apr 29, 2019, at 4:10 PM, Warner Losh <imp at
bsdimp.com> wrote:
On Mon, Apr 29, 2019 at 5:05 PM Zane Healy <healyzh
at avanthar.com <mailto:healyzh at avanthar.com>> wrote:
This will be going into my Garage, so cooling will be a challenge during the summer.
OTOH, it?s really nice to be able to log in via ILO and check the system temperatures. My
plan is to keep the 24x7 servers as low to the ground as possible. Stuff that gets
powered of ?when needed?, can go higher up in the rack. The one exception will be if I
put the MicroVAX III with RA7x drives into the rack, like I?m threatening to. Those would
probably be forced to go in the bottom.
Zane
On Apr 29, 2019, at 1:52 PM, Warner Losh <imp
at bsdimp.com <mailto:imp at bsdimp.com>> wrote:
While it might not be useful for all applications, I've gone down to the hardware
store and purchased "angle iron" and cut it to length. I then drill a whole
through it in a couple of places and bolt it to the rack. It's not as nice as sliders,
but it gets the job done for all the systems I've used in the past couple of decades.
It wouldn't work well, however, for systems that have big heavy disk drives, for tape
drives, etc. It also burns 1 U in the rack. For me that's not been an issue but others
have complained about that in the past when I've suggested this.
Warner
I figure that loosing 1U will be less of a concern than the insulating effects of putting
a sheet of wood in there. I?m giving real consideration to jury rigging something.
I?ll pick up the rack and then go from there.
I put wood there too :) But only when the chassis is venting front to back (or back to
front) as opposed to top to bottom... Though it's been a long time since I've seen
top to bottom? 
1 May
1 May
10:23 p.m.
On 4/29/2019 7:20 PM, Zane Healy via cctalk wrote:
the system temperatures. My plan is to keep the 24x7
servers as low to the ground as possible. Stuff that gets powered of ?when needed?, can go
higher up in the rack. The one exception will be if I put the MicroVAX III with RA7x
drives into the rack, like I?m threatening to. Those would probably be forced to go in the
bottom.
Zane
That's what I had to do with my rack (see other email).? The HP C3000 is a 6U high
blade chassis and heavy when loaded so it had to go right above the two UPS (also heavy).?
This gives a nice, low center of gravity.? I hope the tape drives higher for less bending
over when doing tape manipulations.? The network switch, router and affiliated items also
go high for the same reason.
Perhaps, in hindsight, I should have had electric and network run to the garage, but with
Texas summers and no A/C I wouldn't be able to run anything a good number of months.?
I do miss my Ohio basement.? Basements in the DFW area are few and far between due to the
type of soil around here.
--
John H. Reinhardt
10:11 p.m.
On 4/29/2019 12:19 PM, Zane Healy via cctalk wrote:
My next question is, what options are there for putting a shelf in a standard rack? My
google-fu seems to be failing me. I?ve I?m going to put any desktops in the rack, I?ll
need a shelf or two, at a minimum.
Zane
Moving from Ohio to Texas in 2017 I gave away two DEC tall racks (36U?).?
Rebuilding here in my converted bedroom office I bought an open 4 post rack off Ebay that
lists as 27U but has about 29U of usable space (see link at end of email).? The top was
meant to be two thick caps tying the two sides together but I'm putting shelf on top
for a Compaq TSZ08 reel to reel tape drive.? I've found that rack shelves are an
expensive thing.? My main rack was "only" $200 and most shelves were around $100
each.? Then I found this one at Amazon:
<https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B06Y3LZVL8/>? for around $45.? It's solid and
sturdy. The shelf itself is 26" deep and the supports are adjustable for racks of
different depths.?? It's fixed and doesn't slide, however.?? It may be what
you're looking for.? I haven't found anything better for less.? It's made by
the same company that made my rack and now I see I could have gotten it cheaper ($6) from
Ebay! Doh!
<https://www.ebay.com/itm/Rack-Server-Vented-Shelf-19-Rack-Mount-1U-Adjustable-from-27-31-Shelves/162159828843>
If you're also looking for something to use to mount your Proliant (If you don't
have the HP rails) then these are good:
Full Length adjustable Rack Rails: <https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01C4TDF0G>
Partial Length adjustable Rack Rails:
<https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00XXDLHDA>
They com in single, two and four packs with slight savings the more you buy.? Because of
the adjustable nature, they do have some screws which impinge on the roughly 17.5"
between the rack rails. I have a few things that fit rather tightly against them but they
do flex a bit which allows the item to fit.
I can't run everything at once (I could, I have two 30 circuits feeding them but not
for long as the heat...), but I have everything there to boot up when I need them.
In my rack I have (from top down):
? Compaq TZ08 Tape drive (on open shelf at the top level)
? A partial Length rack rail with a Lantronix ETS16PR terminal server
? 2U allocated to a 12" deep Cantilever Server Vented Shelve with an Edgerouter Lite
Firewall/router and a Raspberry Pi 3 DNS/DHCP/NTP server
? An HPE Aruba 2920-48G 48-port 10/100/1000 switch with 4 10GBE SFP+ ports
? A Raritan Paragon II KVM switch
? HP MSL2024 Tape Library with two LTO4 SCSI tape drives
? PDP-11/53 system in a BA23 chassis
? Compaq Network Storage Router M2402 for FC to SCSI bridging
? HP Storageworks 8/24 SAN switch
? HP P2000 G3 MSA Storage Controller with 12 2TB 3.5" SATA drives
? HP D2700 storage shelf with 252.5"? SAS drives
? HP C3000 Bladeserver Chassis with one BL460c Proliant blade for VMWare hosting and two
BL860c I2 Itanium for OpenVMS
?(2) APC 2U high 3000VA SUM3000RMXL2U UPS systems
Rack:
<https://www.ebay.com/itm/27U-4-Post-Open-Frame-Data-Server-Rack-19-32-Deep-3-Pairs-of-L-Rails/161408751608>
--
John H. Reinhardt
10:54 p.m.
On May 1, 2019, at 10:11 PM, John H. Reinhardt via
cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
Moving from Ohio to Texas in 2017 I gave away two DEC tall racks (36U?). Rebuilding here
in my converted bedroom office I bought an open 4 post rack off Ebay that lists as 27U but
has about 29U of usable space (see link at end of email). The top was meant to be two
thick caps tying the two sides together but I'm putting shelf on top for a Compaq
TSZ08 reel to reel tape drive. I've found that rack shelves are an expensive thing.
My main rack was "only" $200 and most shelves were around $100 each. Then I
found this one at Amazon: <https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B06Y3LZVL8/> for
around $45. It's solid and sturdy. The shelf itself is 26" deep and the supports
are adjustable for racks of different depths. It's fixed and doesn't slide,
however. It may be what you're looking for. I haven't found anything better for
less. It's made by the same company that made my rack and now I see I could have
gotten it cheaper ($6) from Ebay! Doh!
<https://www.ebay.com/itm/Rack-Server-Vented-Shelf-19-Rack-Mount-1U-Adjustable-from-27-31-Shelves/162159828843>
If you're also looking for something to use to mount your Proliant (If you don't
have the HP rails) then these are good:
Full Length adjustable Rack Rails: <https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01C4TDF0G>
Partial Length adjustable Rack Rails:
<https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00XXDLHDA>
They com in single, two and four packs with slight savings the more you buy. Because of
the adjustable nature, they do have some screws which impinge on the roughly 17.5"
between the rack rails. I have a few things that fit rather tightly against them but they
do flex a bit which allows the item to fit.
Wow, thanks for the links! Actually thanks to those full length rails you pointed out,
check these shelves out. Cheaper, same exact design, and higher weight rating.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01A6JQYDG
I like the look of those full length rails for some DEC HW, including an old BA350 or
two.
I ended up with a really nice 42U Tripp-Lite rack for $150 tonight. Missing two of the
four side panels, and I managed to break a side-panel latch getting it unloaded, but it
actually has the front and back doors.
Well, thanks to Amazon, I?ll have two shelves, a 4 pack of the full length rails, and a
Tripp-Lite PDU with surge suppression on Saturday. Looks like I know what I?m doing this
weekend. :-)
Hopefully those rails will work for stuff like a PDP-8/e or a PDP-8/m. With 42U, I think
I can fit everything I *need* in there with plenty of room to spare. Might be time to
finally get some of the cool stuff where I can use it on occasion.
Zane
1828
days inactive
1831
days old
10 comments
5 participants
participants (5)
-
healyzh＠avanthar.com -
imp＠bsdimp.com -
jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu -
johnhreinhardt＠thereinhardts.org -
paulkoning＠comcast.net