21 Dec
2018
21 Dec
'18
5:19 a.m.
From: Mattis Lind
I cannot figure out which early machine it comes from.
They're called 'System Modules':
http://gunkies.org/wiki/System_Module
and they were used from the PDP-1 through (I think) the PDP-7; at least, this
PDP-7 internals image:
https://www.soemtron.org/images/jpgs/decimages/sn113robertjohnson85680004.j…
seems to show System Modules at the top, and FLIP CHIPs at the bottom. (I'm
pretty sure even the first PDP-8 - the 'straight 8' - uses only early FLIP
CHIPs - transistorized ones.)
The DEC brochure for it (P5141) is a little puzzling; it says (p. 2) that
"INTEGRATED CIRCUITS are basic elements of the low cost, newly designed
silicon FLIP CHIP modules used throughout PDP-7", but AFAIK, the first FLIP
CHIPs (R-series, B-series, etc) were all transistors; the later M-series were
the first ones to have ICs. Maybe this is some old meaning of "integrated
circuits"?
Noel
21 Dec
21 Dec
5:47 a.m.
On Dec 21, 2018, at 8:19 AM, Noel Chiappa via cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
...
The DEC brochure for it (P5141) is a little puzzling; it says (p. 2) that
"INTEGRATED CIRCUITS are basic elements of the low cost, newly designed
silicon FLIP CHIP modules used throughout PDP-7", but AFAIK, the first FLIP
CHIPs (R-series, B-series, etc) were all transistors; the later M-series were
the first ones to have ICs. Maybe this is some old meaning of "integrated
circuits"?
Noel
It's odd wording for sure, and doesn't feel like a common use of the term from
before the arrival of monolithic integrated circuits. But there is some precedent;
through the 1970s if not somewhat later there were "hybrid integrated circuits",
often found in high performance A/D and D/A converters. Those are essentially compact
circuit modules, but typically with unusual substrates like ceramic ones instead of PC
boards, and surface mount components when PCBs used all through-hole components. So
"integrated circuit" wasn't limited to the "monolithic" kind back
then.
I sometimes refer to "hollow state integrated circuits" to describe the complete
multi-stage amplifier in a single package built by Loewe of Germany in the 1930s; look for
"Loewe 3NF".
paul
8:51 a.m.
On 12/21/18 5:19 AM, Noel Chiappa via cctalk wrote:
The DEC brochure for it (P5141) is a little puzzling;
it says (p. 2) that
"INTEGRATED CIRCUITS are basic elements of the low cost, newly designed
silicon FLIP CHIP modules used throughout PDP-7", but AFAIK, the first FLIP
CHIPs (R-series, B-series, etc) were all transistors; the later M-series were
the first ones to have ICs. Maybe this is some old meaning of "integrated
circuits"?
The original "Flip Chip" was a packaging failure. It was literally a die bonded
to a PCB
and never went into production.
I think it is mentioned in "Computer Engineering"
IBM perfected the techniques to do this later with the development of solder bumps and
IR reflow.
9:08 a.m.
On 12/21/2018 07:19 AM, Noel Chiappa via cctalk wrote:
Yes, PDP-5 and DEC LINC were made with "System Building
Blocks", similar in technology to the board pictured, but
single-width and wrapped in an aluminum frame, with a blue
connector hand-wired to one end. Single-sided,
paper-phenolic PCBs.
Kind of similar to half of the board in the picture. I
think this same technology was used in a number of other
machines. Discrete transistors, diode-steered
capacitor-coupled FFs, really ANCIENT technology.
The "classic" PDP-8 was built with basically the same
circuit technology, but on smaller, unframed glass-epoxy
PCBs with etched and gold-plated card-edge fingers, with
color-coded handles indicating what technology was on it.
So, basic logic was R with red handles, memory boards
(select, read amp, etc.) were G with green handles, etc.
Jon
From: Mattis
Lind
I cannot figure out which early machine it comes
from.
They're called 'System Modules':
http://gunkies.org/wiki/System_Module
and they were used from the PDP-1 through (I think) the PDP-7; at least, this
PDP-7 internals image:
https://www.soemtron.org/images/jpgs/decimages/sn113robertjohnson85680004.j…
seems to show System Modules at the top, and FLIP CHIPs at the bottom. (I'm
pretty sure even the first PDP-8 - the 'straight 8' - uses only early FLIP
CHIPs - transistorized ones.)
The DEC brochure for it (P5141) is a little puzzling; it says (p. 2) that
"INTEGRATED CIRCUITS are basic elements of the low cost, newly designed
silicon FLIP CHIP modules used throughout PDP-7", but AFAIK, the first FLIP
CHIPs (R-series, B-series, etc) were all transistors; the later M-series were
the first ones to have ICs. Maybe this is some old meaning of "integrated
circuits"?
2:40 p.m.
The original "Flip Chip" was a packaging
failure. It was literally a die bonded to a PCB
and never went into production.
I think it is mentioned in "Computer Engineering"
IBM perfected the techniques to do this later with the development of solder bumps and
IR reflow.
Are you talking about the little black rectangles, sort of SIP
packages, DEC tried in the late 1960s? They were a disaster with
reliability, but they did ship.
--
Will
3:26 p.m.
yea, that was it
http://www.computerhistory.org/collections/catalog/XD37.80
I didn't know we had this example in the collection, they were
hybrids like IBM SLDs
Do you know of any module part numbers that used them?
On 12/21/18 2:40 PM, William Donzelli wrote:
The original
"Flip Chip" was a packaging failure. It was literally a die bonded to a PCB
and never went into production.
I think it is mentioned in "Computer Engineering"
IBM perfected the techniques to do this later with the development of solder bumps and
IR reflow.
Are you talking about the little black rectangles, sort of SIP
packages, DEC tried in the late 1960s? They were a disaster with
reliability, but they did ship.
--
Will
3:53 p.m.
They use the same R and S numbers, just late revision suffices. I have
a machine made with them that sometimes even works. I have a bunch
that have had the gold fingers peeled off (don't blame me - I got them
this way).
--
Will
On Fri, Dec 21, 2018 at 6:26 PM Al Kossow <aek at bitsavers.org> wrote:
yea, that was it
http://www.computerhistory.org/collections/catalog/XD37.80
I didn't know we had this example in the collection, they were
hybrids like IBM SLDs
Do you know of any module part numbers that used them?
On 12/21/18 2:40 PM, William Donzelli wrote:
The
original "Flip Chip" was a packaging failure. It was literally a die bonded to a
PCB
and never went into production.
I think it is mentioned in "Computer Engineering"
IBM perfected the techniques to do this later with the development of solder bumps and
IR reflow.
Are you talking about the little black rectangles, sort of SIP
packages, DEC tried in the late 1960s? They were a disaster with
reliability, but they did ship.
--
Will
8:02 p.m.
On 12/21/2018 10:51 AM, Al Kossow via cctalk wrote:
On 12/21/18 5:19 AM, Noel Chiappa via cctalk wrote:
The 360 was announced in 1964, first delivered in 1965,
using "flip chip" bonding of discrete transistors and diodes
on ceramic substrates, their "SLT" packaging. So, I'm not
too sure about the "later". The original PDP-8 was
introduced in 1965.
Jon
The DEC brochure for it (P5141) is a little
puzzling; it says (p. 2) that
"INTEGRATED CIRCUITS are basic elements of the low cost, newly designed
silicon FLIP CHIP modules used throughout PDP-7", but AFAIK, the first FLIP
CHIPs (R-series, B-series, etc) were all transistors; the later M-series were
the first ones to have ICs. Maybe this is some old meaning of "integrated
circuits"?
The original "Flip Chip" was a packaging failure. It was
literally a die bonded to a PCB
and never went into production.
I think it is mentioned in "Computer Engineering"
IBM perfected the techniques to do this later with the development of solder bumps and
IR reflow. 
3 Jan
3 Jan
12:48 p.m.
From: Noel Chiappa
Sent: Friday, December 21, 2018 5:19 AM
> From: Mattis Lind
> I cannot figure out which early machine it comes
from.
They're called 'System Modules':
and they were used from the PDP-1 through (I think)
the PDP-7; at least, this
PDP-7 internals image:
seems to show System Modules at the top, and FLIP
CHIPs at the bottom. (I'm
pretty sure even the first PDP-8 - the 'straight 8' - uses only early FLIP
CHIPs - transistorized ones.)
Noel,
The PDP-7 was the first system produced by DEC which used Flip Chip(TM)
technology, as well as the first to be built using a Gardiner-Denver wirewrap
machine instead of hand soldering.
The System Modules(TM) in the PDP-7 chassis at LCM+L make up the 550 DECtape
control for the 555 DECtape drives. The controller was common to the PDP-7 and
the earlier PDP-4 (which was of course all System Modules). They appear in
exactly one place in the entire system.
Rich
Rich Alderson
Vintage Computing Sr. Systems Engineer
Living Computers: Museum + Labs
2245 1st Avenue S
Seattle, WA 98134
mailto:RichA at LivingComputers.org
http://www.LivingComputers.org/
1961
days inactive
1974
days old
8 comments
6 participants
participants (6)
-
aek＠bitsavers.org -
elson＠pico-systems.com -
jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu -
paulkoning＠comcast.net -
RichA＠livingcomputers.org -
wdonzelli＠gmail.com