11 Jan
2017
11 Jan
'17
2:08 p.m.
Hello Adrian,
not sure if 8085 is supported, but try to analyze your dump with IDA
Disassembler.
It's really amazing in analyzing the code, and reconstruct automatically,
or with small effort, a readable trace of functions jumps, strings,
symbols, etc
Andrea
11 Jan
11 Jan
2:24 p.m.
since it's been brought up, and your forgot to mention IDA is a commercial product
http://reverseengineering.stackexchange.com/questions/1817/is-there-any-dis…
On 1/11/17 11:08 AM, shadoooo wrote:
try to analyze your dump with IDA
Disassembler.
3:19 p.m.
On 11/01/2017 19:24, "Al Kossow" <aek at bitsavers.org> wrote:
since it's been brought up, and your forgot to mention IDA is a commercial
product
http://reverseengineering.stackexchange.com/questions/1817/is-there-any-dis…
embler-to-rival-ida-pro
Good list there, the onlinedebugger looked the most promising but it doesn't
do 8080/8085 either. Thanks though!
On 1/11/17 11:08 AM, shadoooo wrote:
--
Adrian/Witchy
Binary Dinosaurs creator/curator
Www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the UK's biggest private home computer
collection?
try to analyze your dump with IDA
Disassembler.
9:45 p.m.
Good list there, the onlinedebugger looked the most
promising but it
doesn't do 8080/8085 either.
I built a disassembler years ago to pick apart captured malware. By
now it handles about a dozen ISAs. While 8080 and 8085 are not on the
list, Z-80 is; adding 8080 would be a relatively simple thing. I've
added that to my to-do list; if someone can point me to 8080/8085
machine language documentation that would save me some searching (which
is something I'm not much good at in these days when frickin'
*everything* is shoehorned into a Web page).
In case anyone is interested, I export it via git. The thing to clone
is git://git.rodents-montreal.org/Mouse/disas, though it hasn't had
much testing off my systems and thus probably contains localisms.
/~\ The ASCII Mouse
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10:12 p.m.
On 01/11/2017 06:45 PM, Mouse wrote:
In case anyone is interested, I export it via git.
The thing to
clone is git://git.rodents-montreal.org/Mouse/disas, though it hasn't
had much testing off my systems and thus probably contains
localisms.
Does your disassembler do flow analysis?
At any rate, the best reference for "undocumented" 8085 instructions is
the Tundra/Calmos datasheet:
http://www.datasheetarchive.com/dlmain/6365531e98b38dadd61a8399fa30d8f0c9a0…
The other instructions follow the 8080.
--Chuck
11:50 p.m.
Even so, he said the code was
for the 8741. It is not 8085!
Dwight
________________________________
From: cctalk <cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org> on behalf of Chuck Guzis <cclist
at sydex.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2017 7:12:43 PM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: Unknown 8085 opcodes
On 01/11/2017 06:45 PM, Mouse wrote:
In case anyone is interested, I export it via git.
The thing to
clone is git://git.rodents-montreal.org/Mouse/disas, though it hasn't
had much testing off my systems and thus probably contains
localisms.
Does your disassembler do flow analysis?
At any rate, the best reference for "undocumented" 8085 instructions is
the Tundra/Calmos datasheet:
http://www.datasheetarchive.com/dlmain/6365531e98b38dadd61a8399fa30d8f0c9a0…
The other instructions follow the 8080.
--Chuck
12 Jan
12 Jan
12:44 a.m.
On 01/11/2017 08:50 PM, dwight wrote:
Even so, he said the code was
for the 8741. It is not 8085!
In the interest of minimizing clutter, I didn't quote all of Mouse's
message:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I built a disassembler years ago to pick apart captured malware. By
now it handles about a dozen ISAs. While 8080 and 8085 are not on the
list, Z-80 is; adding 8080 would be a relatively simple thing. I've
added that to my to-do list; if someone can point me to 8080/8085
machine language documentation that would save me some searching (which
is something I'm not much good at in these days when frickin'
*everything* is shoehorned into a Web page).
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
My post was right on topic.
--Chuck
1:13 a.m.
Sorry Chuck
It was not you I was talking about. It was the original thinking that a 8085 disassembler
would make sense out of the original 8041 code.
Maybe I'm confused but I believe the code in question was the 8041.
Dwight
________________________________
From: cctalk <cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org> on behalf of Chuck Guzis <cclist
at sydex.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2017 9:44:27 PM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: Unknown 8085 opcodes
On 01/11/2017 08:50 PM, dwight wrote:
Even so, he said the code was
for the 8741. It is not 8085!
In the interest of minimizing clutter, I didn't quote all of Mouse's
message:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I built a disassembler years ago to pick apart captured malware. By
now it handles about a dozen ISAs. While 8080 and 8085 are not on the
list, Z-80 is; adding 8080 would be a relatively simple thing. I've
added that to my to-do list; if someone can point me to 8080/8085
machine language documentation that would save me some searching (which
is something I'm not much good at in these days when frickin'
*everything* is shoehorned into a Web page).
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
My post was right on topic.
--Chuck
12:03 p.m.
On 01/11/2017 10:13 PM, dwight wrote:
Sorry Chuck
It was not you I was talking about. It was the original thinking that
a 8085 disassembler would make sense out of the original 8041 code.
Maybe I'm confused but I believe the code in question was the 8041.
It's okay--topic drift isn't unknown even here. I get confused a lot
also--must be a symptom of age. :)
--Chuck
1:16 p.m.
On 12/01/2017 04:50, "dwight" <dkelvey at hotmail.com> wrote:
Even so, he said the code was
for the 8741. It is not 8085!
Not strictly true, I said I saw the same opcodes in both and it was only
reading a buttload of books yesterday that showed me the errors of my ways
:)
A
________________________________
From: cctalk <cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org> on behalf of Chuck Guzis
<cclist at sydex.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2017 7:12:43 PM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: Unknown 8085 opcodes
On 01/11/2017 06:45 PM, Mouse wrote:
--
Adrian/Witchy
Binary Dinosaurs creator/curator
Www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the UK's biggest private home computer
collection?
In case anyone is interested, I export it via
git. The thing to
clone is git://git.rodents-montreal.org/Mouse/disas, though it hasn't
had much testing off my systems and thus probably contains
localisms.
Does your disassembler do flow analysis?
At any rate, the best reference for "undocumented" 8085 instructions is
the Tundra/Calmos datasheet:
http://www.datasheetarchive.com/dlmain/6365531e98b38dadd61a8399fa30d8f0c9a0…
M/CA80C85
The other instructions follow the 8080.
--Chuck
10:35 a.m.
[...disassembler...]
Does your disassembler do flow analysis? At any rate, the best reference for
"undocumented" 8085 instructions
is the Tundra/Calmos datasheet: [...]
That looks like a webpage, not a datasheet, but I found a link there to
http://datasheet.datasheetarchive.com/originals/distributors/Datasheets-8/D…,
which appears to be the datasheet. Saved, thank you!
/~\ The ASCII Mouse
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12:14 p.m.
On 01/12/2017 07:35 AM, Mouse wrote:
A disassembler that can do flow analysis is a breath of fresh air when
working with larger binaries. Essentially, it looks at the code and
makes some decisions about its content.
Thus, a target of an already-disassembled jump must also be code, not
data, for example, so it's possible to disassemble large sections of
code automatically. Sections not referenced as code or data are held as
"unknown" code until some guidance from the user is provided.
IDA Pro is one such disassembler and it's a godsend when working with
code in ROM, where data may (is usually) interleaved with instructions.
I believe that IDA can even make a stab at the processor family (e.g.
80286 vs. 8086 vs. 80386, etc.)
It's a remarkable tool. I've used it for 8051, but I don't know if it
can do 8048.
--Chuck
Does your
disassembler do flow analysis?
I doubt it, because none of the meanings I know for the term are
anything my disassembler does.
12:52 p.m.
Does your disassembler do flow analysis?
I
doubt it, because none of the meanings I know for the term are
anything my disassembler does. Thus, a target of an already-disassembled jump must
also be code,
Well...usually. It's possible the jump isn't actually a jump
instruction (just data that happens to look like one) and it's possible
it doesn't actually jump to where it appears to for any of many
possible reasons. Hence the overrides.
My disassembler defaults to disassembling as instructions, but it has
support for the user telling it that certain areas are text, or
integers, or whatever. Clone it and look at the README if you want to
get an idea how it works from a user's point of view.
/~\ The ASCII Mouse
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1:37 p.m.
On 01/12/2017 09:52 AM, Mouse wrote:
My disassembler defaults to disassembling as
instructions, but it
has support for the user telling it that certain areas are text, or
integers, or whatever. Clone it and look at the README if you want
to get an idea how it works from a user's point of view.
I will certainly do that. It'll be interesting how this for 8080/z80
compares to the 30-odd-year old interactive disassembler for CP/M,
Dazzlestar.
--Chuck
3:54 p.m.
Clone [my
disassembler] and look at the README if you want to get an
idea how it works from a user's point of view.
I will certainly do that.
It'll be interesting how this for 8080/z80
compares to the 30-odd-year old interactive disassembler for CP/M,
Dazzlestar. 
2:21 p.m.
It was thus said that the Great Chuck Guzis once stated:
On 01/12/2017 07:35 AM, Mouse wrote:
A disassembler that can do flow analysis is a breath of fresh air when
working with larger binaries. Essentially, it looks at the code and
makes some decisions about its content.
Thus, a target of an already-disassembled jump must also be code, not
data, for example, so it's possible to disassemble large sections of
code automatically. Sections not referenced as code or data are held as
"unknown" code until some guidance from the user is provided.
But are there disassemblers that can handle somehing like:
jsr puts
fcc 'Hello, world!',13,0
clra
...
puts puls x
puts1 lda ,x+
beq puts9
jsr putchar
bra puts1
puts9 pshs x
rts
I recall that being a somewhat common idiom in 8-bit code of the 80s.
-spc
Does your
disassembler do flow analysis?
I doubt it, because none of the meanings I know for the term are
anything my disassembler does.
2:46 p.m.
On 01/12/2017 11:21 AM, Sean Conner wrote:
But are there disassemblers that can handle somehing like:
jsr puts
fcc 'Hello, world!',13,0
clra
...
puts puls x
puts1 lda ,x+
beq puts9
jsr putchar
bra puts1
puts9 pshs x
rts
I recall that being a somewhat common idiom in 8-bit code of the
80s.
Good question. It wasn't just 8-bit code that did that. When I was
churning out 8086 real-mode code, I used a somewhat amplified version of
that for debugging. E.g.,
CALL DEBUGOUT
DB "At point xx, CX=#CX, AX=#AX",0
...
The debug print routine parsed the string and inserted the (saved)
values of the specified registers. It could even show contents of
memory pointed to by a register as well as contents of I/O ports. Very
useful if you didn't have an ICE handy.
I do know that IDA reverts to "unknown" mode when a byte value not
corresponding to a known opcode is presented.
--Chuck
3:50 p.m.
But are there disassemblers that can handle somehing
like:
jsr puts
fcc 'Hello, world!',13,0
clra
Mine can't do that automatically, but it can with a little human
assist; the human would need to tell it that the memory after the jsr
is a NUL-terminated string, but that's all it would need to be told.
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4:01 p.m.
> jsr puts
> fcc 'Hello, world!',13,0
> clra
or the classic:
JMP START1
DATA2: DB . . .
DB . . .
START1: MOV DX, OFFSET DATA2
Which was heavily used because
MOV DX, OFFSET DATA3
. . .
DATA3: DB . . .
would pose "forward reference" or "undefined symbol" problems for some
assemblers.
Even for manual assembly, or 'A' mode of DEBUG.COM, it was handy to
already know the address of the data before you wrote the steps to access
it.
On Thu, 12 Jan 2017, Mouse wrote:
Mine can't do that automatically, but it can with
a little human
assist; the human would need to tell it that the memory after the jsr
is a NUL-terminated string, but that's all it would need to be told.
Not all strings are null-terminated. In CP/M, and MS-DOS INT21h Fn9, the
terminating character is '$' !
"If you are ever choosing a termination marker, choose something that
could NEVER occur in normal data!"
Also, strings may, instead of a terminating character, be specified with a
length, or with a start and end address.
4:30 p.m.
It was thus said that the Great Fred Cisin once stated:
I've seen the high bit set on the last character, again mostly in the
8-bit world.
-spc
> jsr puts
> fcc 'Hello, world!',13,0
> clra
or the classic:
JMP START1
DATA2: DB . . .
DB . . .
START1: MOV DX, OFFSET DATA2
Which was heavily used because
MOV DX, OFFSET DATA3
. . .
DATA3: DB . . .
would pose "forward reference" or "undefined symbol" problems for
some
assemblers.
Even for manual assembly, or 'A' mode of DEBUG.COM, it was handy to
already know the address of the data before you wrote the steps to access
it.
On Thu, 12 Jan 2017, Mouse wrote:
Mine can't do that automatically, but it can
with a little human
assist; the human would need to tell it that the memory after the jsr
is a NUL-terminated string, but that's all it would need to be told.
Not all strings are null-terminated. In CP/M, and MS-DOS INT21h Fn9, the
terminating character is '$' !
"If you are ever choosing a termination marker, choose something that
could NEVER occur in normal data!"
Also, strings may, instead of a terminating character, be specified with a
length, or with a start and end address.
4:46 p.m.
> Not all strings are null-terminated. In CP/M, and
MS-DOS INT21h Fn9, the
> terminating character is '$' !
> "If you are ever choosing a termination marker, choose something that
> could NEVER occur in normal data!"
> Also, strings may, instead of a terminating character, be specified with a
> length, or with a start and end address.
On Thu, 12 Jan 2017, Sean Conner wrote:
I've seen the high bit set on the last character,
again mostly in the
8-bit world.
Yes, but also for "soft" spaces in Wordstar files.
That seemed to disappear when the 5150 came out,
since it it had some useful characters in the upper 128 set,
such as "enyay" (N~), and 'e' with acute accent for your
"resume".
Not all that were present were useful, and
not all useful ones were present.
Thanks for the stupid smiley faces, but howzbout
"yen", "pound sterling", "trademark", "registered
mark",
and "copyright"?
One of my students speculated that the choices that were made,
resulted in more stringent workplace sobriety measures.
6:11 p.m.
jsr puts
fcc 'Hello, world!',13,0
clra
Mine can't do that automatically, but it can with a little human
assist; the human would need to tell it that the memory after the
jsr is a NUL-terminated string, but that's all it would need to be
told. 
1:39 a.m.
Mouse writes:
I built a disassembler years ago to pick apart
captured malware. By
now it handles about a dozen ISAs. While 8080 and 8085 are not on the
list, Z-80 is; adding 8080 would be a relatively simple thing.
Isn't 8080 just a subset of Z80?
if someone can point me to 8080/8085 machine language
documentation
that would save me some searching
Try this:
https://github.com/larsbrinkhoff/awesome-cpus
12:40 p.m.
While 8080 and
8085 are not on the list, Z-80 is; adding 8080 would
be a relatively simple thing.
Isn't 8080 just a subset of Z80? if someone can
point me to 8080/8085 machine language documentation
that would save me some searching [...]
https://github.com/larsbrinkhoff/awesome-cpus 
9:44 a.m.
On 2017-01-11 11:45 PM, Mouse wrote:
https://www.google.ca/search?q=intel+8080
lists several books and the manuals on the first page.
Good list
there, the onlinedebugger looked the most promising but it
doesn't do 8080/8085 either.
I built a disassembler years ago to pick apart captured malware. By
now it handles about a dozen ISAs. While 8080 and 8085 are not on the
list, Z-80 is; adding 8080 would be a relatively simple thing. I've
added that to my to-do list; if someone can point me to 8080/8085
machine language documentation that would save me some searching (which is something I'm not much good at in these days
when frickin'
*everything* is shoehorned into a Web page).
In case anyone is interested, I export it via git. The thing to clone
is git://git.rodents-montreal.org/Mouse/disas, though it hasn't had
much testing off my systems and thus probably contains localisms.
/~\ The ASCII Mouse
\ / Ribbon Campaign
X Against HTML mouse at rodents-montreal.org
/ \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B
11 Jan
11 Jan
4:20 p.m.
On 11/01/2017 19:24, "Al Kossow" <aek at bitsavers.org> wrote:
since it's been brought up, and your forgot to mention IDA is a commercial
product
http://reverseengineering.stackexchange.com/questions/1817/is-there-any-dis…
embler-to-rival-ida-pro
On 1/11/17 11:08 AM, shadoooo wrote:
> try to analyze your dump with IDA
> Disassembler.
I've got some good results with the dz80 disassembler on linux, it actually
does a decent job of recognising the text and shows it as such:
;
db 'Telephone Details' ; 1799
dw X0401 ; 17aa 01 04 ..
dw X0805 ; 17ac 05 08 ..
;
db 17h ; 17ae .
db 'Select number to change' ; 17af
dw X0601 ; 17c6 01 06 ..
dw X0800 ; 17c8 00 08 ..
;
db 1bh,0dh ; 17ca ..
db '1 PBX Ext. Direct Line' ; 17cc
dw X0901 ; 17e6 01 09 ..
dw X0800 ; 17e8 00 08 ..
dw X0d1a ; 17ea 1a 0d ..
dw X2032 ; 17ec 32 20 2
;
db 20h,6 ; 17ee .
db 'Pre-Dial Pause (secs)' ; 17f0
db 1 ; 1805 .
Thanks all!
--
Adrian/Witchy
Binary Dinosaurs creator/curator
Www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the UK's biggest private home computer
collection?
4:50 p.m.
On 11/01/17 22:20, Adrian Graham wrote:
I've got some good results with the dz80 disassembler on linux, it actually
does a decent job of recognising the text and shows it as such:
;
db 'Telephone Details' ; 1799
dw X0401 ; 17aa 01 04 ..
dw X0805 ; 17ac 05 08 ..
;
db 17h ; 17ae .
db 'Select number to change' ; 17af
dw X0601 ; 17c6 01 06 ..
dw X0800 ; 17c8 00 08 ..
;
db 1bh,0dh ; 17ca ..
db '1 PBX Ext. Direct Line' ; 17cc
dw X0901 ; 17e6 01 09 ..
dw X0800 ; 17e8 00 08 ..
dw X0d1a ; 17ea 1a 0d ..
dw X2032 ; 17ec 32 20 2
;
db 20h,6 ; 17ee .
db 'Pre-Dial Pause (secs)' ; 17f0
db 1 ; 1805 .
Thanks all!
The byte before each string is the length (17h = 23 = 'Select ...change').
In the case of the PBX Ext string the 0dh is the first character, and
the length is 1bh / 27.
The Pre-Dial string is length 1ah / 26 but I don't know what the 6 means
(maybe some special character.)
--
Lawrence Wilkinson lawrence at ljw.me.uk
The IBM 360/30 page http://www.ljw.me.uk/ibm360
2:48 p.m.
On 11/01/2017 19:08, "shadoooo" <shadoooo at gmail.com> wrote:
Hello Adrian,
not sure if 8085 is supported, but try to analyze your dump with IDA
Disassembler.
It's really amazing in analyzing the code, and reconstruct automatically,
or with small effort, a readable trace of functions jumps, strings,
symbols, etc
Hi Andrea,
The starter/full versions support 8085 but the freeware and eval versions
are 80x86 only, thanks for the idea though.
--
Adrian/Witchy
Binary Dinosaurs creator/curator
Www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the UK's biggest private home computer
collection?
2732
days inactive
2733
days old
28 comments
11 participants
participants (11)
-
aek＠bitsavers.org -
cclist＠sydex.com -
cisin＠xenosoft.com -
dkelvey＠hotmail.com -
lars＠nocrew.org -
ljw-cctech＠ljw.me.uk -
mouse＠Rodents-Montreal.ORG -
shadoooo＠gmail.com -
spc＠conman.org -
toby＠telegraphics.com.au -
witchy＠binarydinosaurs.co.uk