17 May
2021
17 May
'21
11:43 a.m.
My recollection of Decnet for Pro boxes is that the available SW was
for an end node and not a routing or other capability for the
380/350/325 boxes.
While that memory might be incorrect, are there any DecNet packages
for the Pro family available anywhere?
a few hours of searching did not turn up any thing but PDFs about the software.
thanks in advance for any replies.
bob
17 May
17 May
12:24 p.m.
Not aware of any, however if there is a C compiler for the Pro 300 series then you could
potentially adapt my user mode router to the Pro 300. In fact, it might be a fun project.
However, it isn't the full DECnet stack, just the router and a little bit of the
Network Management layer. I am trying to repair my real Pro 350, although I am not having
much luck so far.
Regards
Rob
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk <cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org> On Behalf Of Bob Smith via
cctalk
Sent: 17 May 2021 19:43
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Subject: DECNet for Pro 300 series boxes
My recollection of Decnet for Pro boxes is that the available SW was for an
end node and not a routing or other capability for the
380/350/325 boxes.
While that memory might be incorrect, are there any DecNet packages for
the Pro family available anywhere?
a few hours of searching did not turn up any thing but PDFs about the
software.
thanks in advance for any replies.
bob
1:02 p.m.
On May 17, 2021, at 2:43 PM, Bob Smith via cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
My recollection of Decnet for Pro boxes is that the available SW was
for an end node and not a routing or other capability for the
380/350/325 boxes.
While that memory might be incorrect, are there any DecNet packages
for the Pro family available anywhere?
a few hours of searching did not turn up any thing but PDFs about the software.
thanks in advance for any replies.
bob
I?m almost certain that it was an end-node only implementation. Eventually it was released
through Decus as PRO175. There appears to be disk copies available at:
http://oldcomputers.dyndns.org/public/pub/mirror/os2site/sw/dec/pro/pro175/…
<http://oldcomputers.dyndns.org/public/pub/mirror/os2site/sw/dec/pro/pro175/index.html>
You?ll need to be running P/OS V3.2 so you might want to grab a copy of PRO177 at the same
time.
John.
5:14 p.m.
On Mon, May 17, 2021, 4:58 PM John Forecast via cctalk <
cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
You?ll need to be running P/OS V3.2 so you might want to grab a copy of
PRO177 at the same time.
Maybe I am misunderstanding, but why would the pro be anything but more
On May 17, 2021, at 2:43 PM, Bob Smith via cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
wrote:
My recollection of Decnet for Pro boxes is that the available SW was
for an end node and not a routing or other capability for the
380/350/325 boxes.
While that memory might be incorrect, are there any DecNet packages
for the Pro family available anywhere?
a few hours of searching did not turn up any thing but PDFs about the
software.
thanks in advance for any replies.
bob
I?m almost certain that it was an end-node only implementation. Eventually
it was released through Decus as PRO175. There appears to be disk copies
available at:
http://oldcomputers.dyndns.org/public/pub/mirror/os2site/sw/dec/pro/pro175/…
<
http://oldcomputers.dyndns.org/public/pub/mirror/os2site/sw/dec/pro/pro175/…
decnet-able?
Bill
5:43 p.m.
On May 17, 2021, at 8:14 PM, Bill Degnan via cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
...
Maybe I am misunderstanding, but why would the pro be anything but more decnet-able?
Bill
I'm not sure what you mean. A Pro is a PDP-11 so it could do many DECnet things,
especially the Pro 380 since it has more memory and a faster processor. But it has two
limitations compared to most other PDP-11s.
One is the I/O. It comes stock with a single USART (the comm port) that, with effort, can
be made to work reasonably well at 9600 baud. At 19,200 it can't keep up, at least
not with the RSTS terminal driver. Perhaps that could be optimized.
There are two comms option cards: the DECNA Ethernet, and the 3CA quad UART (a very
obscure device). The quad UART has a better FIFO than the USART so it's happy at
9600. Just like the comm port, you're looking at DDCMP in software with those. The
CNA is a 10 Mb/s Ethernet (half duplex) device, using the worst Ethernet NIC chip in the
history of mankind. But it supposedly does work (I haven't done so yet).
So while you could build a router, it wouldn't have much of a suite of comm links.
The other limitation is the software. DEC only supplied P/OS, RT-11, and Ultrix (or was
that some other Unix? I forgot, they changed plans in the middle of field test of one of
them). Of those, P/OS comes with DECnet, which is the one John Forecast was talking
about. Given that the version that was shipped is (apparently) end node only, that's
what you're stuck with. RT-11 for Pro does not as far as I know, and in any case
RT-11 only ever did endnodes. I have no idea about the Unix.
Then there is RSTS, which can do all this (except, not yet, the DECNA), but I only ever
released the more limited 9.6 version internally and still haven't managed to figure
out a sane way to make the current (10.1 based) one available to the community.
paul
10:51 p.m.
On Mon, May 17, 2021 at 8:53 PM Paul Koning via cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
There are two comms option cards: the DECNA Ethernet,
and the 3CA quad UART (a very obscure device).
Yeah... I have neither of those, but at least I've seen a picture of a DECNA.
The other limitation is the software. DEC only
supplied P/OS, RT-11, and Ultrix (or was that some other Unix?
Not DEC, but there was VENIX from VenturCom. I have VENIX 1.0 on a
Pro350, and there was VENIX 2.0 for the Pro380. No idea about DECNA
support in 2.0, but I have the (paper) manuals for 1.0 and there's no
mention of it. I think a TCP stack might crush an F-11. You could
run TCP/IP on a 2.11BSD system, but that required a Split I&D
processor and that means a J-11 (or a larger Unibus box, in practice).
-ethan
1:13 p.m.
On May 17, 2021, at 2:43 PM, Bob Smith via cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
My recollection of Decnet for Pro boxes is that the available SW was
for an end node and not a routing or other capability for the
380/350/325 boxes.
That's how I remember it as well. I think the DEC notion was that a Pro wasn't
powerful enough to do routing, and on top of that it's hard to configure it with
enough ports to make it interesting. In theory it could do Ethernet to 9600 baud sync
DDCMP, and if you really want to stress the poor little CPU you could try to add a few
async DDCMP lines (on the quad UART card). I don't know if DECnet/Pro supports
anything other than Ethernet, though.
I have my Pro/RSTS system running as a router, on two serial ports, though only one is
active right now. The main reason I set it up that way is so it would allow me to turn on
the second line, for use as a test data source.
paul
6:55 p.m.
Thanks for the info. and John!!
bb
On Mon, May 17, 2021 at 4:13 PM Paul Koning <paulkoning at comcast.net> wrote:
On May 17, 2021, at 2:43 PM, Bob Smith via cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
My recollection of Decnet for Pro boxes is that the available SW was
for an end node and not a routing or other capability for the
380/350/325 boxes.
That's how I remember it as well. I think the DEC notion was that a Pro wasn't
powerful enough to do routing, and on top of that it's hard to configure it with
enough ports to make it interesting. In theory it could do Ethernet to 9600 baud sync
DDCMP, and if you really want to stress the poor little CPU you could try to add a few
async DDCMP lines (on the quad UART card). I don't know if DECnet/Pro supports
anything other than Ethernet, though.
I have my Pro/RSTS system running as a router, on two serial ports, though only one is
active right now. The main reason I set it up that way is so it would allow me to turn on
the second line, for use as a test data source.
paul
7:08 p.m.
I have a DECNet for Rainbow MS DOS software.
On Mon, May 17, 2021 at 9:56 PM Bob Smith via cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
Thanks for the info. and John!!
bb
On Mon, May 17, 2021 at 4:13 PM Paul Koning <paulkoning at comcast.net> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On May 17, 2021, at 2:43 PM, Bob Smith via cctalk <cctalk at
classiccmp.org> wrote:
> >
> > My recollection of Decnet for Pro boxes is that the available SW was
> > for an end node and not a routing or other capability for the
> > 380/350/325 boxes.
>
> That's how I remember it as well. I think the DEC notion was that a Pro
wasn't powerful enough to do routing, and on top of that it's hard to configure it
with enough ports to make it interesting. In theory it could do Ethernet to 9600 baud
sync DDCMP, and if you really want to stress the poor little CPU you could try to add a
few async DDCMP lines (on the quad UART card). I don't know if DECnet/Pro supports
anything other than Ethernet, though.
>
> I have my Pro/RSTS system running as a router, on two serial ports, though only one
is active right now. The main reason I set it up that way is so it would allow me to turn
on the second line, for use as a test data source.
>
> paul
>
>
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8 comments
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participants (6)
-
billdegnan＠gmail.com -
bobsmithofd＠gmail.com -
ethan.dicks＠gmail.com -
john＠forecast.name -
paulkoning＠comcast.net -
robert.jarratt＠ntlworld.com