28 May
2002
28 May
'02
12:35 a.m.
Well, a friend whose moving was digging through his attic and found the
families old Commodore 128. This is the first time a friend has ever
given me an old computer, I think. It's also the first Commodore in my
collection. I had sort of been avoiding Commodores since my only
experience with them was with my old Vic 20. I had fun with it, but I
wished it had been an Apple //e..... that's what I really wanted. I
eventually got an Apple //e and used them in school, too.
I got the C128, and a 1581 floppy drive. No monitor and no software,
unfortunetly. The other day, I saw a Commodore monitor at Goodwill,
along with another model floppy drive. I think I may go pick those up
tomorrow.
Does this have an OS in Rom, or does it need a "boot" disk like an Apple //?
I like the slim design, although and internal power supply would have
been nice. I think I like the was the Apple //'s are built, better.
The C128 was kind of difficult to disassemble. I actually had to use a
soldering iron..... something I've never done while disassembling a
computer.
Chad Fernandez
Michigan, USA
28 May
28 May
6:48 a.m.
The C128 has BASIC in ROM--two different ones, even. The
regular C64 BASIC and BASIC 7.0 (IIRC) that supports 80
columns.
There is also the option of booting CP/M, as it also contains
a Z-80 in addition to its 6502 compatible chip. I don't know
where to find a CP/M boot disk for the 1581 (3.5" drive),
though.
While pretty much any old composite monitor should work,
it'd be nice to be on the lookout for a Commodore 1084 with
support for Luma/Chroma and RGB. That way, you'd be able
to use 80 columns and C64 mode all on the same monitor.
It also has built-in sound. I'm sure other list members can
point out monitors that work equally well, but that's one I
was lucky enough to obtain (and works on Amigas, too!)
Enjoy your new find--there are _lots_ of programs available
out there in disk image format--but they're usually 1541
images, which are 5.25". A 1571 drive (5.25" enhanced)
or 1541 should be easy to find in thrift stores, etc. If you
become desparate, drop me a line--I left two 1541s in my
basement and they've bred, so I can spare one.
Regards,
--Michael
8:01 a.m.
The C128 has BASIC in ROM--two different ones, even.
The
regular C64 BASIC and BASIC 7.0 (IIRC) that supports 80
columns.
There is also the option of booting CP/M, as it also contains
a Z-80 in addition to its 6502 compatible chip. I don't know
where to find a CP/M boot disk for the 1581 (3.5" drive),
though.
The orignal CP/M Plus 3.0 bootdisk (don't use 2.2) is available on FUnet under
http://www.funet.fi/pub/cbm/ . It's a regular GCR disk and can boot from a
1541, although with a 1541 it will run considerably slower and you will not be
able to read MFM formats. A 1571 is a much better match.
If you get a 1541 or 1571 and an X1541-series cable, you can build disks on
most PCs. See http://sta.c64.org/
While pretty much any old composite monitor should
work,
it'd be nice to be on the lookout for a Commodore 1084 with
support for Luma/Chroma and RGB.
The 1902 is also a good choice. Avoid the 1802.
Enjoy your new find--there are _lots_ of programs
available
out there in disk image format--but they're usually 1541
images, which are 5.25". A 1571 drive (5.25" enhanced)
or 1541 should be easy to find in thrift stores, etc. If you
become desparate, drop me a line--I left two 1541s in my
basement and they've bred, so I can spare one.
To get into 64 mode, hold down the Commodore key while turning on the
computer, or plug in any C64 cartridge and turn the system on. I always
have an Epyx FastLoad in my 128DCR for this reason.
--
----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ --
Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser(a)stockholm.ptloma.edu
-- FORTUNE: Today is a great day for making firm decisions. Or is it? ---------
12:17 p.m.
While pretty
much any old composite monitor should work,
it'd be nice to be on the lookout for a Commodore 1084 with
support for Luma/Chroma and RGB.
The 1902 is also a good choice. Avoid the 1802.
10:04 p.m.
While pretty much any old composite monitor should
work,
it'd be nice to be on the lookout for a Commodore 1084 with
support for Luma/Chroma and RGB.
The 1902 is also a good choice. Avoid the 1802. 
29 May
29 May
6:46 p.m.
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30 May
30 May
12:22 a.m.
The 1802 in
its several incarnations (CM-141, 1703) is an absolute lemon.
Any ideas who really made it? They have a
notoriously high failure rate (mine failed within six months,
What tends to fail?
28 May
28 May
6:14 p.m.
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9:50 p.m.
There's an OS in the disk drive ROM (the drives
are pretty intellegent)
which used with CBM BASIC on the 6502-like CPU. There's also a Z80-like
CPU in the C128 which runs CP/M. You need a boot disk for that, but you
don't need any boot disk for the '6502' one.
Practically, yes. Technically, no. The Z80 is actually the master processor
on startup and polls the expansion lines for cartridges and for the C= key
to send the system straight to 64 mode. It then initialises the MMU
appropriately and switches control over to the 8502 which then goes into
either the 128 or 64 boot-up sequence.
But yes, it's difficult to take advantage of the Z80 without CP/M :-)
(The story behind this architecture is interesting and I paraphrase it here:
http://www.floodgap.com/retrobits/ckb/secret/d128.html
).
--
----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ --
Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser(a)stockholm.ptloma.edu
-- Life is too short to use anything but a Mac. -- Roger Ebert ----------------
11:07 p.m.
Tony Duell wrote:
That, and I took the keyboard apart. Something had been dumped in it,
like thick coffee, hot coco, or maybe a tablespoon of chocolate
milkshake. I put everything minus the shielding and screws in the dish
washer. I scrubbed the case with Comit later, since it still looked grubby.
Chad Fernandez
Michigan, USA
The C128 was
kind of difficult to disassemble. I actually had to use a
soldering iron..... something I've never done while disassembling a
Presumably to remove the shielding around the CPU board?
-tony 
29 May
29 May
12:23 p.m.
New subject: Remex Paper Tape Unit
I've designed a very simple Remex paper tape reader
"parallel" interface to serial board utilizing a
PIC/Ubicom and a MAX-232 chip. Someone else on this
has one but I forget who, so:
http://sloboyko.home.mindspring.com/remex.htm
__________________________________________________
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http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com
28 May
28 May
7:51 p.m.
Chad Fernandez wrote:
Well, a friend whose moving was digging through his attic and found the
families old Commodore 128. This is the first time a friend has ever
given me an old computer, I think. It's also the first Commodore in my
collection. <snip>
I got the C128, and a 1581 floppy drive. No monitor and no software,
unfortunetly. The other day, I saw a Commodore monitor at Goodwill,
along with another model floppy drive. I think I may go pick those up
tomorrow.
If the monitor is a 1702, then you're stuck with compostive video in 40
column mode. for 80 colums you need a CGA monitor, or a Commodore
1902/1080. Some magnavoxz monitors would work as well; I have several
spare cables for a 128 to Magnavox (DB9 to 6 pin round DIN)
The 1581 is a 3.5" floppy that uses DSDD disks; the preferred drive is
the 1571 (5 1/4"), as it will do cp/m formats as well as the standard
CBM GCR format. You can use a 1541 as well, but no cp/m formats. I'd
reccomend two 1571's and keep the '81 as a poor man's hard drive.
Does this have an OS in Rom, or does it need a "boot" disk like an Apple //?
The DOS is embedded in the disk controller. The interface is a serial
version of IEEE-488, and is quite slow in 1541 mode. In cp/m and burst
mode there is a noticeable speed difference, but then you need a 1571.
You can get the complete owner's guide and disk drive guide in plain
ASCII text off the web --- beware, there are a LOT of pages.
I like the slim design, although and internal power supply would have
been nice. I think I like the way the Apple //'s are built, better.
The C128 was kind of difficult to disassemble. I actually had to use a
soldering iron..... something I've never done while disassembling a
computer.
Commodore was famous for cheap packaging; they made a really nice
C128D(CR) which had a built-in drive and separate keyboard, and it
remotely looked like the Amiga 1000.
Chad Fernandez
Michigan, USA
Contact me off-list if you would like any other info. Cameron Kaiser is
a CBM guru on here as well, between us we should have the answers.
Gary Hildebrand
St. Joseph, MO
9:46 p.m.
Cameron Kaiser is
a CBM guru on here as well, between us we should have the answers.
*blush*
Also Ethan, Jim Brain, Larry Anderson, ...
--
----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ --
Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser(a)stockholm.ptloma.edu
-- I see nothing! Nothing! -- Sgt. Schultz, "Hogan's Heroes"
------------------
29 May
29 May
5:58 p.m.
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30 May
30 May
12:20 a.m.
CBM GCR
format. You can use a 1541 as well, but no cp/m formats. I'd
Well, I assume the 1541 can do Commodore's GCR CP/M format (the C128 user
manual implies you can boot CP/M from a 1541).
8248
days inactive
8250
days old
14 comments
7 participants
participants (7)
-
ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk -
fernande＠internet1.net -
ghldbrd＠ccp.com -
lgwalker＠mts.net -
passerm＠umkc.edu -
sloboyko＠yahoo.com -
spectre＠stockholm.ptloma.edu