Sorry. I had to get my two cents in. So here goes:.... This is the first time in Microsoft's experience that it's future depends on the quality of it's software. I didn't mention the BSD variants because I didn't want to further muddy the waters. Linux should be and is sometimes still properly referred to as GNU/Linux. It is hard to pronounce GNU properly..... Consumers hate that. And there is that "what does GNU stand for?" question that keeps me up at nights. The GNU folks had nearly everything complete and right but the kernel. Linus wrote that - a very important piece of work, but hardly an operating system. Linus gets more credit than he deserves in this respect, but I can't fault him for it - he never asked for it, and possibly to his personal detriment, he hasn't exploited it. It was really freaky. There was all this software and no useful kernel and then out of the blue Linus Sh*ts this diamond. Whiskytangofoxtrot??!! I use NetBSD and OpenBSD on my Sparc and on Intel and have found it cleaner, more secure, and less failure-prone than Linux but I've also found it has much less support outside of the hardcore "I'm gonna port God's-own server daemon to BSD" clique. Mostly, if it is there for Linux, BSD has got it too. Depending on your hardware, you can run Solaris and Linux apps alongside BSD software in emulation mode. BTW, anyone got shared libraries for SUNOS on Sparc? The relationship between Un*x-like operating systems is almost incestuous. There may be a trend toward a common environment or at least towards a cluster of competing ones which run the same software. This is healthy. After all, computers have no mores. Errr. It is not unimportant to note that with a few third-party exceptions, Microsoft operating systems are the only ones not on the bandwagon. Lots of folks are hopping on and microsoft is oblivious. I hope this turns out like a 'Pinky and the Brain' episode. Since the DOJ brought it's suit, there has been an enormous resurgence in the operating system market - Particularly in ones that had little status before the suit. OS/2 runs Unix, Linux and BSD apps if you really want it to. So do FreeBSD, NetBSD, OpenBSD, MiNT, NeXT -- the list goes on. All you need is a smart user or a 17 year-old kid with a GNU C compiler (if things get hard). You might call this period "Hangtime". Metaphoricaly, Microsoft is flying off the top of a very steep ramp. Either their momentum carries them to the other side, or there is going to be a crash. In between, and beyond the ramps, stand millions of well-earned enemies spraying 'silly string' at it while it is in flight. Good. Everyone pays thier debts sometime. MS is under such scrutiny that thier mafia tactics cannot be used and they are forced to make good products or lose thier hegemony. By the time the DOJ wins/loses it may not matter. MS may and must produce the 'killer o/s" or dissolve. Somehow, I think MS will not produce the killer operating system but I'd like to see them try. The only way to challenge MS on it's merits is to continue the scrutiny until it produces a truely marketable product. Until lately, it has insulated it'self from nature by subterfuge. I look foreward to what will happen, and hope that folks will keep thier eyes on the company to ensure it does right. I've had mine Peeled. Regards, Jeff P.S. I hope that wasn't too many commas.... In <Pine.LNX.4.10.10101102327230.6193-100000(a)smarty.smart.net>et>, on 01/11/01 at 02:01 AM, "R. D. Davis" <rdd(a)smart.net> said: -- ----------------------------------------------------------- Jeffrey S. Worley President Complete Computer Services, Inc. 30 Greenwood Rd. Asheville, NC 28803 828-277-5959 Visit our website at HTTP://www.Real-Techs.com THETechnoid(a)home.com -----------------------------------------------------------

Jeffrey S. Worley wrote: Isn't revisionist history great. :^( Simply put what a load of BS! GNU's contribution was gcc. At the time there were some semi-nice GNU utilities, but they pretty much fit on one floppy! Even GCC was pretty pathetic at the time. The FACT is GNU wouldn't be where it is today IF it wasn't for Linux! At that time we were as likely to get our utilities from BSD as we were from GNU! BTW, 'bash' wasn't the only shell we had either. BTW, anyone remember just how long it to Stallman to notice Linux? All I've ever seen him do for it is cry like a big baby! I'm still not convinced he's nothing but a Circus act! He should be acknowledging the fact that GNU (and very likely UNIX) would be a footnote in the history books if not for Linux! Yes, I'm one of the people so disgusted by Stallman I'd like to see a GNU free distro of Linux! OTOH, if I want a secure system I run OpenBSD, and my Sparc's run Solaris. Zane (running Linux for NINE years now, so this is almost on topic) -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh(a)aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | healyzh(a)holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ |

There are quite a number of multitasking 6502 machines out there. Homebrews and C64s are represented. The 'distribution' is called OS/A65. There was an early attempt for the Atari 8-bit called Mtos back in the mid-80's. You could assign individual tasks a defined number of 'time slices'. It was pretty neat but wasn't 'unixy'. You might find what Andre has done with OS/A65 as a good starting point as the source code is freely available. Can you make a 6502-based machine 'do' virtual memory? If you can, maybe we can port NetBSD to the Atari 8-bit. It might take a year to boot but it would be a fun project. The way the Atari handles disk I/O makes me think it is possible. Something like the Spartados X code substitution for the standard SIO calls I think. Spartados X is a fantastic peice of work. I've not seen anything that comes close to it (while maintaining compatability with existing software that is). Regards, Jeff In <200101112045.MAA10918(a)stockholm.ptloma.edu>du>, on 01/16/01 at 03:31 PM, Cameron Kaiser <spectre(a)stockholm.ptloma.edu> said: -- ----------------------------------------------------------- Jeffrey S. Worley President Complete Computer Services, Inc. 30 Greenwood Rd. Asheville, NC 28803 828-277-5959 Visit our website at HTTP://www.Real-Techs.com THETechnoid(a)home.com -----------------------------------------------------------

Your knowlege of this is so far beyond mine I can barely follow. Even that is too complimentary to describe the gap, but I'd rather not discourage you by measuring the gap. In this I follow. I was suggesting a software approach (virtual mmu), but the Atari XE has a fairly capable mmu in that it allows multiple processors to access memory separately without the intervention of the cpu. I think a combination of custom software and this hardware would perform better than a solely software approach would. I could well be wrong, but with my limited knowlege it is hard for me to find a fault in the argument. LUnix is a new word for me. Any more info? I could search for it, but you seem to know your stuff and that is a rare thing I'm not likely to find in a blind search. Regards, Jeff In <200101162115.NAA11712(a)stockholm.ptloma.edu>du>, on 01/16/01 at 05:41 PM, Cameron Kaiser <spectre(a)stockholm.ptloma.edu> said: -- ----------------------------------------------------------- Jeffrey S. Worley President Complete Computer Services, Inc. 30 Greenwood Rd. Asheville, NC 28803 828-277-5959 Visit our website at HTTP://www.Real-Techs.com THETechnoid(a)home.com -----------------------------------------------------------

THETechnoid skrev: Which of course also runs on Andr? Fachat's own A65 and Gecko computer systems. The designs are freely available on his home page. For the C64, there is also Lunix, which even sports SLIP support and TCP/IP d?mons. I think further info should be here: http://www.heilbronn.netsurf.de/~dallmann/c64.html The thing which NetBSD would miss would be an MMU. And it probably would like 32 bits, too. And a good C compiler. Another interesting 8-bit UNIX project is Uzix, a UNIX-a-like from Brazil for the MSX. It seems very powerful indeed, at least given memory. Its UNIX API is quite well-implemented, too, it seems. http://www.dcc.unicamp.br/~adrcunha/uzix -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. A bore is a man who deprives you of solitude without providing you with company.