29 Sep
2002
29 Sep
'02
12:35 p.m.
Yesterday I ran across someone that has a fairly large supply of Tek
Oscilliscopes available with all the pluggins (I believe they're the 7704A
model). They were well cleaned prior to storage and they've been kept in a
very clean environment. He said prior to storing them they all worked, but
prior to selling any he'd want to recheck them.
I gather he wants a fair price (it sounded reasonable to me), and would be
willing to ship (for an additional cost).
If anyone is interested, let me know and I'll put you in contact with him.
Zane
--
| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator |
| healyzh(a)aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast |
| | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
| Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, |
| PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. |
| http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ |
29 Sep
29 Sep
4:56 p.m.
Quothe Zane H. Healy, from writings of Sun, Sep 29, 2002 at 10:36:27AM -0700:
Oscilliscopes available with all the pluggins (I
believe they're the 7704A
[...]
If anyone is interested, let me know and I'll put
you in contact with him.
If they were Tek 500 series 'scopes, this would be an interesting
offer, but having become spoiled by the excellent display, and very
sharp traces, over the past two decades, on the 500 series models,
unlike any other 'scopes, no other 'scopes will do. :-)
Alas, biz 'droids always have to go introducing horrid new and
disimproved models when they're selling things that people like.
--
Copyright (C) 2002 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals:
All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature &
rdd(a)rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such
http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty.
6:06 p.m.
I've got a Tek 547, complete with scope cart and several plug-ins I'd be
willing to part with.
R. D. Davis wrote:
Quothe Zane H. Healy, from writings of Sun, Sep 29,
2002 at 10:36:27AM -0700:
Oscilliscopes available with all the pluggins (I
believe they're the 7704A
[...]
If anyone is interested, let me know and I'll
put you in contact with him.
If they were Tek 500 series 'scopes, this would be an interesting
offer, but having become spoiled by the excellent display, and very
sharp traces, over the past two decades, on the 500 series models,
unlike any other 'scopes, no other 'scopes will do. :-)
Alas, biz 'droids always have to go introducing horrid new and
disimproved models when they're selling things that people like.
10:01 p.m.
At 07:33 PM 9/29/02, you wrote:
Bob,
I'll take it off your hands for $100. That means you PAY ME to take it!
:-)
Joe
At 07:08 PM 9/29/02 -0400, you wrote:
>I've got a Tek 547, complete with scope cart and several plug-ins I'd be
>willing to part with.
Hmmm... I had a 547 (I think that was the number). I *liked* it.
Big. Heavy. Beautifully built. Silver solder, porcelain standoffs,
gold-plated switches. Reliable.
Carlos.
--------------------------------------------------------------
Carlos E. Murillo-Sanchez carlos_murillo(a)nospammers.ieee.org
30 Sep
30 Sep
7:39 a.m.
At 11:00 PM 9/29/02 -0400, you wrote:
Hmmm... I had a 547 (I think that was the number). I
*liked* it.
Big. Heavy. Beautifully built. Silver solder, porcelain standoffs,
gold-plated switches. Reliable.
Carlos.
I know, bad form (replying to my own msg)... but I remembered
about this book that I have, "Typical Oscilloscope Circuitry",
revised edition, 1964, Tektronix Inc. From the introduction:
Manipulation of the front-panel controls of an oscilloscope can be
learned by rote. To use the instrument to its fullest capabilities
a knowledge of oscilloscope circuitry is essential.
What a different point of view with respect to the customers!
Back then, they would publish this beautifully edited [1] book,
printed in high quality paper, hard bound, containing actual
schematics, and telling you that you should learn about the
insides of your instrument to make beter use of it. Now,
you get just basic docs and the proverbial troubleshooting
guide, the first entry being "problem: doesn't turn on,
check: Is the power cord plugged in?"
[1] for a technical book; about the only aspect that makes it clear
that engineers published this book are the use of underlining for
subsection titles and within the text for emphasis.
Carlos.
--------------------------------------------------------------
Carlos E. Murillo-Sanchez carlos_murillo(a)nospammers.ieee.org
3:46 p.m.
I remember those books, Tektronix published quite a few different ones about
oscilloscopes and taking measurements. I had a dozen or so of them when I was younger.
They were great reading and very educational. I highly recommend them to anyone interested
in using oscilloscopes or learning more about how they work.
Joe
At 08:37 AM 9/30/02 -0400, you wrote:
I know, bad form (replying to my own msg)... but I remembered
about this book that I have, "Typical Oscilloscope Circuitry",
revised edition, 1964, Tektronix Inc. From the introduction:
Manipulation of the front-panel controls of an oscilloscope can be
learned by rote. To use the instrument to its fullest capabilities
a knowledge of oscilloscope circuitry is essential.
What a different point of view with respect to the customers!
Back then, they would publish this beautifully edited [1] book,
printed in high quality paper, hard bound, containing actual
schematics, and telling you that you should learn about the
insides of your instrument to make beter use of it. Now,
you get just basic docs and the proverbial troubleshooting
guide, the first entry being "problem: doesn't turn on,
check: Is the power cord plugged in?"
[1] for a technical book; about the only aspect that makes it clear
that engineers published this book are the use of underlining for
subsection titles and within the text for emphasis.
Carlos.
--------------------------------------------------------------
Carlos E. Murillo-Sanchez carlos_murillo(a)nospammers.ieee.org
8:54 a.m.
Yep, the 547 is the dual-timebase scope of the series. A very useful
feature for debugging digital logic.
Carlos Murillo wrote:
At 07:33 PM 9/29/02, you wrote:
Bob,
I'll take it off your hands for $100. That means you PAY ME to take it!
:-)
Joe
At 07:08 PM 9/29/02 -0400, you wrote:
>I've got a Tek 547, complete with scope cart and several plug-ins I'd be
>willing to part with.
>
Hmmm... I had a 547 (I think that was the number). I *liked* it.
Big. Heavy. Beautifully built. Silver solder, porcelain standoffs,
gold-plated switches. Reliable.
Carlos.
--------------------------------------------------------------
Carlos E. Murillo-Sanchez carlos_murillo(a)nospammers.ieee.org
12:40 p.m.
New subject: Attention 1802 fans...
I've just found something rather rare, and I'm willing to part with it,
so...
For Sale or Trade (Not listed on eBay!):
An RCA CDP 1801 CPU board, New Old Stock, with matching edge-card
connector. The PCB artwork is labled "RCA GPA 3903822/02 PCA 47-5", and
"3901822".
This is a 4.25 inch by 2.75 inch (including fingers) blue-colored PCB
with a 40-pin CDP1801UD data path chip and its
associated 28-pin SSTC TA6890W control store ROM, along with some
passive support components. The IC's are
in white ceramic with gold covers. Even the Beckman 22K resistor DIP is
in a white ceramic package. PCB traces are tinned over a blue
substrate, with a 44-pin gold edge finger connector.
The mating connector is a Sullins ETM22DSEH in a matching blue color,
for some reason (because is looks really cool?).
This two-chip CPU is a very early example of the RCA COSMAC CPU design
built prior to the much more common CDP1802 single-chip processor.
Dates codes are 7539 for the data path, and 7525 for the SSTC chip.
Condition is absolutely mint, NOS-condition, but untested. No
documentation, but I ~MAY~ be able to find something on this board, just
don't count on it.
I'll also include a pair of vintage HP hexidecimal displays exactly like
those used on the original ELF project, to make this combo the starting
point for a really special ELF project.
(Some ceramic 1852's may also be available)
12:49 p.m.
New subject: Attention 1802 fans...
Ok, so replaying to my own email is bed form and all, but a chip
collector has a 1801 chipset for sale, and
is claiming its the old set for sale anywhere. He's asking $1,500.
I, on the other hand, will claim to be sane.
Bob Shannon wrote:
I've just found something rather rare, and I'm
willing to part with
it, so...
For Sale or Trade (Not listed on eBay!):
An RCA CDP 1801 CPU board, New Old Stock, with matching edge-card
connector. The PCB artwork is labled "RCA GPA 3903822/02 PCA 47-5",
and "3901822".
This is a 4.25 inch by 2.75 inch (including fingers) blue-colored PCB
with a 40-pin CDP1801UD data path chip and its
associated 28-pin SSTC TA6890W control store ROM, along with some
passive support components. The IC's are
in white ceramic with gold covers. Even the Beckman 22K resistor DIP
is in a white ceramic package. PCB traces are tinned over a blue
substrate, with a 44-pin gold edge finger connector.
The mating connector is a Sullins ETM22DSEH in a matching blue color,
for some reason (because is looks really cool?).
This two-chip CPU is a very early example of the RCA COSMAC CPU design
built prior to the much more common CDP1802 single-chip processor.
Dates codes are 7539 for the data path, and 7525 for the SSTC chip.
Condition is absolutely mint, NOS-condition, but untested. No
documentation, but I ~MAY~ be able to find something on this board,
just don't count on it.
I'll also include a pair of vintage HP hexidecimal displays exactly
like those used on the original ELF project, to make this combo the
starting point for a really special ELF project.
(Some ceramic 1852's may also be available)
1:16 p.m.
New subject: Attention 1802 fans...
Bob Shannon wrote:
I've just found something rather rare, and I'm
willing to part with
it, so...
[snip]
Three questions:
A) Has it gone yet?
B) How much will it cost to ship this thing to the UK?
C) How much do you want for it?
Later.
--
Phil.
philpem(a)dsl.pipex.com
http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/
1:28 p.m.
New subject: Attention 1802 fans...
Answers...
A. Not yet, it was only posted minutes ago!
B. Shipping to the UK would not be much, we are only talking about a
small PCB, so the
weight and size are very small.
C. Make me an offer. Clearly one chip collector places a very high
dollar value on the 'only'
1801 chip set he's aware of. This is the full 1801 CPU board, so its
more 'practical' in my
eyes, for someone who would acutally use the board and build a
1801-based ELF-like thing.
So I don't have a preset dollar value in mind at all, and am willing to
accept trades, etc.
But some day, I'd love to look at some web page, and see a pretty blue
1801 CPU board
built into a working machine, rather than have it sitting unused in some
collection.
I think its rare-enough that my first concern is that it should go to a
'good home' rather than
what I get for it. This is why I posted the offer to the mailing list
rather than eBay.
Philip Pemberton wrote:
Bob Shannon wrote:
I've just found something rather rare, and
I'm willing to part with
it, so...
[snip]
Three questions:
A) Has it gone yet?
B) How much will it cost to ship this thing to the UK?
C) How much do you want for it?
Later.
2:50 p.m.
New subject: Attention 1802 fans...
An RCA CDP 1801 CPU board,
[...]
This is a 4.25 inch by 2.75 inch (including fingers)
blue-colored PCB
with a 40-pin CDP1801UD data path chip and its
associated 28-pin SSTC TA6890W control store ROM, along with some
passive support components.
Quite a find!
According to documentation I've seen, the original chip set was the TA6889
and TA6890. The later ones are CDP1801R and CDP1801U. I'm not sure whether
there were actual differences in the chips, or whether they just changed the
part numbers.
I've only seen a reference to one other RCA chip with a TAxxxx part number,
and it was a CMOS RAM. I suspect that the "TA" prefix may have been used
for preproduction (non-qualified) parts, similar to the Motorola "XC"
prefix.
The TA68xx/CDP1801 supports only a subset of the instructions of the 1802.
The instructions that were added on the 1802 were quite commonly used,
so don't count on it running 1802 software.
8:51 p.m.
New subject: Attention 1802 fans...
Eric Smith wrote:
I'll say. And a bit of 1802 trivia:
The 1802 was used in quite a number of Amateur radio ("ham")
satellites.
It was one of the first relatively "rad-hard" micros from
what I remember
reading, due in large part to its CMOS construction. I
guess those days
there were a few PMOS CPUs (8008, 8080) and a few NMOS CPUs
(Z80, 6502,
9900JL), and exactly one CMOS CPU -- the CDP1802. So it was
1802 or bust. :)
I don't recall hearing about commercial and military
satellites, but I'm
guessing they also used this chip extensively for a time.
I suppose if e-bay prices go high enough for the chips, you
can always
launch a mission to recover one of those sats for the chip
salvage. ;)
An observation about the 1802.
Most micros' instruction sets I remember from those days
tended to
be either simple and likeable for their elegant minimalism
(6502, 6800),
or were complex and irregular, but likeable because of
really neat
and powerful instructions (Z80 w/CPIR, LDDR, XTHL etc.), or
interesting
for just being plain weird (9900). I remember pegging every
micro of the
day into one of those camps (simple, complex, weird) except
one: 1802.
The 1802 is the only one that seemed to me to be elegant,
simple, and
clean and yet so weird that it must have been the product of
a
completely alien intelligence. Perhaps one that GLOs in the
dark...
No doubt at any rate the 1802 was interesting and unique.
It's great
that folks on the list care more about seeing this rare gear
see use
than fall into disuse as part of a "collection".
An RCA CDP 1801 CPU board,
[...]
This is a 4.25 inch by 2.75 inch (including
fingers) blue-colored PCB
with a 40-pin CDP1801UD data path chip and its
associated 28-pin SSTC TA6890W control store ROM, along with some
passive support components.
Quite a find!
According to documentation I've seen, the original chip set was the TA6889
and TA6890. The later ones are CDP1801R and CDP1801U. I'm not sure whether
there were actual differences in the chips, or whether they just changed the
part numbers.
I've only seen a reference to one other RCA chip with a TAxxxx part number,
and it was a CMOS RAM. I suspect that the "TA" prefix may have been used
for preproduction (non-qualified) parts, similar to the Motorola "XC"
prefix.
The TA68xx/CDP1801 supports only a subset of the instructions of the 1802.
The instructions that were added on the 1802 were quite commonly used,
so don't count on it running 1802 software.
that BLO's. ;)
9:11 p.m.
New subject: Attention 1802 fans...
Ross Archer wrote:
The 1802 was used in quite a number of Amateur radio
("ham")
satellites.
It was one of the first relatively "rad-hard" micros from
what I remember
reading, due in large part to its CMOS construction. I
guess those days
there were a few PMOS CPUs (8008, 8080) and a few NMOS CPUs
(Z80, 6502,
9900JL), and exactly one CMOS CPU -- the CDP1802. So it was
1802 or bust. :)
The other CMOS chip at the time was the PDP-8 on a chip.
The 1802 was I think was a special CMOS version that was
latch up and rad-hardened. Several CPU's are rad-hard but
the 1802 was the first cheap one.
9:35 p.m.
New subject: Attention 1802 fans...
From: "Ben Franchuk"
<bfranchuk(a)jetnet.ab.ca>
Ross Archer wrote:
It goes beyond that... there is a Silicon-On-Saphire version which is
considerably more rad-hard than a pure silicon process. In fact even more
recent space probes like Galileo (launched 1989) used 1802s.
The 1802 was used in quite a number of Amateur
radio ("ham")
satellites.
It was one of the first relatively "rad-hard" micros from
what I remember
reading, due in large part to its CMOS construction. I
guess those days
there were a few PMOS CPUs (8008, 8080) and a few NMOS CPUs
(Z80, 6502,
9900JL), and exactly one CMOS CPU -- the CDP1802. So it was
1802 or bust. :)
The other CMOS chip at the time was the PDP-8 on a chip.
The 1802 was I think was a special CMOS version that was
latch up and rad-hardened. Several CPU's are rad-hard but
the 1802 was the first cheap one. 
10:09 p.m.
New subject: Attention 1802 fans...
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Kearney" <jim(a)jkearney.com>
It goes beyond that... there is a Silicon-On-Saphire version which is
considerably more rad-hard than a pure silicon process. In fact even more
recent space probes like Galileo (launched 1989) used 1802s.
According to http://www.amsat.org/amsat/sats/phase3d/ihu.html , AO-40 (which
was launched on Nov 16th, 2000) uses an 1802 as its internal housekeeping
unit. Here is a brief quote from the page: "The P3D IHU is based on a
Sandia-processed (rad hard) CDP1802 COSMAC processor and standard
4000-series CMOS logic operating at a nominal power supply of 10-volts. The
memory array is based on donated GEC Plessey MA9287 rad-hard CMOS static
RAMs, giving a total memory size of 64k bytes. "
1 Oct
1 Oct
10:04 a.m.
New subject: Attention 1802 fans...
--- Jim Kearney <jim(a)jkearney.com> wrote:
It goes beyond that... there is a Silicon-On-Saphire
version which is
considerably more rad-hard than a pure silicon process. In fact even
more recent space probes like Galileo (launched 1989) used 1802s.
While it's true that the Galileo _does_ have them and it was launched
in 1989, it belies the fact that it was built from a spare Voyager
frame. Galileo's design stems from the mid-1970s when the 1802 was
a more popular platform for space hardware.
Doesn't detract from how cool it is, though.
-ethan
__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo!
http://sbc.yahoo.com
30 Sep
30 Sep
10:27 p.m.
New subject: Attention 1802 fans...
Using www.cosmacelf.com, there are dozens of sites devoted to the 1802.
There are emulators for Windows, Palms, and probably *nix. In fact, just
the other night I converted Frankasm to run under Linux (didn't take much,
but I also went through the 1802 and base code, making prototypes
modernized, and basically getting it to compiled with -W -Wall GCC flags).
Misc items: The rad-hard version of the 1802 was saphirre on silicon, from
what I've been told. You can pick up the RCA Studio II on eBay pretty
cheap. These are 1802 based. There is the Netronics Elf, Quest Super Elf,
and the RCA SA711 (I own 1 each of the latter, plus a couple of RCA Stdio
II's). One day I stumbled across about 110 pieces of CDP1802ACEs in Austin
Electronics. This got me on the 1802 kick, something I had always wanted to
play with, but never got around to.
It's a neat instruction set. Not perfect, but powerful. Lends itself to
Forth quite well, and I imagine that a port of GCC to it wouldn't be
outrageous (not compared to braindead architectures like the PIC, at any
rate). Lots of nifty support chips. CDP1823 256x8 RAMS, CDP1861 video,
there are port expanders, larger RAMs, ROMs, the CDP1854 serial chip (found
9 boards on eBay, payed my board builder a couple bucks to desolder them
all), some other stuff.
Expect to pay dearly for databooks. I won't mentioned what I've spent
lately, especially if Joe Rigdon won't (grin).
--John
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk-admin(a)classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On
Behalf Of Ben Franchuk
Sent: Monday, September 30, 2002 22:11
To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org
Subject: Re: Attention 1802 fans...
Ross Archer wrote:
The 1802 was used in quite a number of Amateur radio
("ham")
satellites.
It was one of the first relatively "rad-hard" micros from
what I remember
reading, due in large part to its CMOS construction. I
guess those days
there were a few PMOS CPUs (8008, 8080) and a few NMOS CPUs
(Z80, 6502,
9900JL), and exactly one CMOS CPU -- the CDP1802. So it was
1802 or bust. :)
The other CMOS chip at the time was the PDP-8 on a chip.
The 1802 was I think was a special CMOS version that was
latch up and rad-hardened. Several CPU's are rad-hard but
the 1802 was the first cheap one.
1 Oct
1 Oct
9:39 a.m.
New subject: Attention 1802 fans...
Some think all 1802's use the SOS process, but I beleive that this is
not the case, its too expensive for
normal parts.
Some time back, I got a sample from an engineer at RCA, of a real
rad-hard 1802 with extra instructions
added to accelerate the Forth Kernel. I beleive that this is called
either an 1805, or perhaps an 1806.
So does anyone know what suffix is used to indicate the SOS process was
used on a given 180x chip?
J.C. Wren wrote:
Using www.cosmacelf.com, there are dozens of sites
devoted to the 1802.
There are emulators for Windows, Palms, and probably *nix. In fact, just
the other night I converted Frankasm to run under Linux (didn't take much,
but I also went through the 1802 and base code, making prototypes
modernized, and basically getting it to compiled with -W -Wall GCC flags).
Misc items: The rad-hard version of the 1802 was saphirre on silicon, from
what I've been told. You can pick up the RCA Studio II on eBay pretty
cheap. These are 1802 based. There is the Netronics Elf, Quest Super Elf,
and the RCA SA711 (I own 1 each of the latter, plus a couple of RCA Stdio
II's). One day I stumbled across about 110 pieces of CDP1802ACEs in Austin
Electronics. This got me on the 1802 kick, something I had always wanted to
play with, but never got around to.
It's a neat instruction set. Not perfect, but powerful. Lends itself to
Forth quite well, and I imagine that a port of GCC to it wouldn't be
outrageous (not compared to braindead architectures like the PIC, at any
rate). Lots of nifty support chips. CDP1823 256x8 RAMS, CDP1861 video,
there are port expanders, larger RAMs, ROMs, the CDP1854 serial chip (found
9 boards on eBay, payed my board builder a couple bucks to desolder them
all), some other stuff.
Expect to pay dearly for databooks. I won't mentioned what I've spent
lately, especially if Joe Rigdon won't (grin).
--John
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk-admin(a)classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On
Behalf Of Ben Franchuk
Sent: Monday, September 30, 2002 22:11
To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org
Subject: Re: Attention 1802 fans...
Ross Archer wrote:
The 1802 was used in quite a number of Amateur
radio ("ham")
satellites.
It was one of the first relatively "rad-hard" micros from
what I remember
reading, due in large part to its CMOS construction. I
guess those days
there were a few PMOS CPUs (8008, 8080) and a few NMOS CPUs
(Z80, 6502,
9900JL), and exactly one CMOS CPU -- the CDP1802. So it was
1802 or bust. :)
The other CMOS chip at the time was the PDP-8 on a chip.
The 1802 was I think was a special CMOS version that was
latch up and rad-hardened. Several CPU's are rad-hard but
the 1802 was the first cheap one.
10:04 a.m.
New subject: Attention 1802 fans...
According to this source, all the rad-hardened versions were SOS:
"The COSMAC's that flew in space were space/radiation hardened versions
using a CMOS/SOS chip technology. These radiation hardened versions were
developed in conjunction with the Sandia National Laboratories."
Other sources treat the two as separate options.
There is also a "high reliability" version, which they designate with
"/3".
The datasheet is at http://www.intersil.com/data/fn/fn1/fn1441/fn1441.pdf.
Maybe the SOS is "/2" or something like that?
I recently built an Elf, BTW: http://www.jkearney.com/elf. It's not going
into space anytime soon.
Jim
----- Original Message -----
From: Bob Shannon
To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org
Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2002 10:41 AM
Subject: Re: Attention 1802 fans...
Some think all 1802's use the SOS process, but I beleive that this is not
the case, its too expensive for
normal parts.
Some time back, I got a sample from an engineer at RCA, of a real rad-hard
1802 with extra instructions
added to accelerate the Forth Kernel. I beleive that this is called either
an 1805, or perhaps an 1806.
So does anyone know what suffix is used to indicate the SOS process was used
on a given 180x chip?
J.C. Wren wrote:
Using www.cosmacelf.com, there are dozens of sites devoted to the
1802.There are emulators for Windows, Palms, and probably *nix. In fact,
justthe other night I converted Frankasm to run under Linux (didn't take
much,but I also went through the 1802 and base code, making
prototypesmodernized, and basically getting it to compiled with -W -Wall GCC
flags). Misc items: The rad-hard version of the 1802 was saphirre on
silicon, fromwhat I've been told. You can pick up the RCA Studio II on eBay
prettycheap. These are 1802 based. There is the Netronics Elf, Quest Super
Elf,and the RCA SA711 (I own 1 each of the latter, plus a couple of RCA
StdioII's). One day I stumbled across about 110 pieces of CDP1802ACEs in
AustinElectronics. This got me on the 1802 kick, something I had always
wanted toplay with, but never got around to. It's a n
eat instruction set. Not perfect, but powerful. Lends itself toForth quite
well, and I imagine that a port of GCC to it wouldn't beoutrageous (not
compared to braindead architectures like the PIC, at anyrate). Lots of
nifty support chips. CDP1823 256x8 RAMS, CDP1861 video,there are port
expanders, larger RAMs, ROMs, the CDP1854 serial chip (found9 boards on
eBay, payed my board builder a couple bucks to desolder themall), some other
stuff. Expect to pay dearly for databooks. I won't mentioned what I've
spentlately, especially if Joe Rigdon won't (grin). --John-----Original
Message-----From: cctalk-admin(a)classiccmp.org
[mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]OnBehalf Of Ben FranchukSent: Monday,
September 30, 2002 22:11To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.orgSubject: Re: Attention 1802
fans...Ross Archer wrote:
The 1802 was used in quite a number of Amateur radio ("ham")satellites.It
was one of the first relatively "rad-hard" micros fromwhat I
rememberreading, due in large part to its CMOS construction. Iguess those
daysthere were a few PMOS CPUs (8008, 8080) and a few NMOS CPUs(Z80,
6502,9900JL), and exactly one CMOS CPU -- the CDP1802. So it was1802 or
bust. :)
The other CMOS chip at the time was the PDP-8 on a chip.The 1802 was I think
was a special CMOS version that waslatch up and rad-hardened. Several CPU's
are rad-hard but the 1802 was the first cheap one.
10:11 a.m.
New subject: Attention 1802 fans...
--- "J.C. Wren" <jcwren(a)jcwren.com> wrote:
You can pick up the RCA Studio II on eBay pretty
cheap.
Didn't someone on this list have "somewhere" an article or set of
docs for converting a Studio II to an Elf-like computer? I got
a Studio II from a buddy of mine. If there aren't any schematics
out there, I could start with his - he annotated the entire inside
of his unit.
Expect to pay dearly for databooks...
Guess I was lucky enough to grab mine when they were current or
just falling out of favor. I have a stack (not as large as
what Joe recently sold) from 15-20 years ago that cost me cover
price ($5) or free. What I _don't_ have that was appealing in
that auction is the stack of newsletters. There can be some
amazing stuff from those days - people who owned single-board
computers were natural tinkerers, the kind that fell from prominence
with the release of consumer friendly machines like the PET and
the TRS-80 Model I and the Apple II. Not to say that those newer
owners were never tinkerers, but getting your mom's permission
to modify a $1,000 machine vs a $200 machine... well... the 1802
and other SBCs were easier to experiment with.
> It was one of the first relatively
"rad-hard" micros from
> what I remember reading, due in large part to its CMOS
> construction. I guess those days there were a few PMOS
> CPUs (8008, 8080) and a few NMOS CPUs (Z80, 6502, 9900JL),
> and exactly one CMOS CPU -- the CDP1802. So it was
> 1802 or bust. :)
The other CMOS chip at the time was the PDP-8 on a
chip.
Right... the Intersil 6100, and later, the 6120. Available in the
mid-1970s in the Intercept Jr. and a few other forms (not including
the WT-78 word processor, etc.)
-ethan
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10:16 a.m.
New subject: Attention 1802 fans...
--- Ross Archer <archer(a)topnow.com> wrote:
I suppose if e-bay prices go high enough for the
chips, you
can always launch a mission to recover one of those sats for
the chip salvage. ;)
They haven't been out of production that long, if indeed they
_are_ out of production. I bought some Harris 1802 processors,
new, in 1999.
Besides, I'd like to see anyone recover Voyager 1 and 2. :-)
No doubt at any rate the 1802 was interesting and
unique.
Agreed.
-ethan
__________________________________________________
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7:02 p.m.
New subject: Attention 1802 fans...
Ethan Dicks wrote:
Another thing I recall is it was one of the few micros I
knew of at the
time that provided for easy tri-stating to take control of
the bus,
such as for DMA or even multiprocessing. Another legacy of
being
CMOS, I suspect.
-- Ross
--- Ross Archer <archer(a)topnow.com> wrote:
WOW.
One thing for still producing the chip: I bet they've
amortized the
development cost by now. :)
Have they cranked up the clock rates or made any
improvements,
do you know? I know you can get a WDC 6502 that runs at 14
Mhz, (I'm
running one at 6 Mhz and it isn't too shabby, speedwise, but
I had
to screen a fair batch of 6522s and 65C51s to get ones that
operated
reliably at this bus speed), so maybe there's a 200 Mhz 1802
out there? ;)
I suppose if e-bay prices go high enough for the
chips, you
can always launch a mission to recover one of those sats for
the chip salvage. ;)
They haven't been out of production that long, if indeed they
_are_ out of production. I bought some Harris 1802 processors,
new, in 1999. Besides, I'd like to see anyone recover Voyager 1
and 2. :-)
That would be one heckuva road-trip. I was being silly of
course.
If you needed an 1802 for an existing design badly enough,
and couldn't buy a new one, you could undoubtedly
create a clone of it on an FPGA on a little PCB and a 40-pin
DIP header. It can't be a lot of complexity as 8 bitters
go.
No doubt at any rate the 1802 was interesting and
unique.
Agreed.
-ethan
__________________________________________________
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New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo!
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11:32 p.m.
New subject: Attention 1802 fans...
Any chance you can post a scan of this board? I'd like to compare it to some of
the ones from my Cosmac Development System -- scans at
http://home.earthlink.net/~msmith6020/Cosmac/
-W
I've just found something rather rare, and I'm
willing to part with it,
so...
For Sale or Trade (Not listed on eBay!):
An RCA CDP 1801 CPU board, New Old Stock, with matching edge-card
connector. The PCB artwork is labled "RCA GPA 3903822/02 PCA 47-5", and
"3901822".
This is a 4.25 inch by 2.75 inch (including fingers) blue-colored PCB
with a 40-pin CDP1801UD data path chip and its
associated 28-pin SSTC TA6890W control store ROM, along with some
passive support components. The IC's are
in white ceramic with gold covers. Even the Beckman 22K resistor DIP is
in a white ceramic package. PCB traces are tinned over a blue
substrate, with a 44-pin gold edge finger connector.
The mating connector is a Sullins ETM22DSEH in a matching blue color,
for some reason (because is looks really cool?).
This two-chip CPU is a very early example of the RCA COSMAC CPU design
built prior to the much more common CDP1802 single-chip processor.
Dates codes are 7539 for the data path, and 7525 for the SSTC chip.
Condition is absolutely mint, NOS-condition, but untested. No
documentation, but I ~MAY~ be able to find something on this board, just
don't count on it.
I'll also include a pair of vintage HP hexidecimal displays exactly like
those used on the original ELF project, to make this combo the starting
point for a really special ELF project.
(Some ceramic 1852's may also be available)
6 Oct
6 Oct
10:32 a.m.
New subject: Attention 1802 fans...
Wanye had asked if any pictures of the 1801 CPU were on-line. I have
made some hi-res JPEG's of the board, but they are close to half a meg
each, so I've not posted them on-line, but they can be emailed on request.
But while searching through my documentation for the meaning of the
'SSTC' acronym, I found something...
I have found a rare copy of the "RCA Solid State MICROSYSTEMS" manual,
SSD-270. This is over 500 pages of detailed information on RCA's 1802
board-level products including schematic diagrams, address maps, jumper
settings, timing diagrams, component placement charts, etc.
Several people from the list have commented on the rarity of 1802
documentation, so I'll offer this book for sale.
The condition is quite good, hardly used, but not 'mint'. No tares or
missing pages, the binding is intact and
all the data is perfectly readable.
Note, this book covers 1802-based RCA Microboard products, it does not
contain any 1801 information.
Also, a note for Wayne Smith...This manual describes 1802 based CPU
boards, but they all appear to be the 'full size' boards that resemble
STD-bus boards, that than the much shorter 1802 CPU shown in Wanye's
JPEGs. It does however describe the RCA industrial chassis, power
supply, and backplane signal definitions.
30 Sep
30 Sep
11:19 p.m.
Quothe Carlos Murillo, from writings of Sun, Sep 29, 2002 at 11:00:02PM -0400:
Hmmm... I had a 547 (I think that was the number). I
*liked* it.
Big. Heavy. Beautifully built. Silver solder, porcelain standoffs,
gold-plated switches. Reliable.
Yes, they're true works of art, and the preservation of them will
hopefully, one day, convince engineers to go back to designing useful
equipment that's pleasant to use, user-repairable, well documented and
lasts for many decades if properly maintained. Alas, most engineers
these days are less interested in engineering than they are in being
good little corporate 'droids who design poorly designed rubbish to
make their company's management 'droids happy and appease other
cow-orkers who do the same.
--
Copyright (C) 2002 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals:
All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature &
rdd(a)rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such
http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty.
2:19 a.m.
Bob
I'd gladly give you the $100 for it/them but there's a big problem in the
way--- it's called the Pacific!!!
Some of these guys just don't appreciate good test gear..
Anyway I do have five other 500 series scopes-plus several plugins- but
always did want a 547!!! Bugger!
Cheers
Dave Brown
Christchurch
New Zealand
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Shannon" <bshannon(a)tiac.net>
To: <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Monday, September 30, 2002 11:08 AM
Subject: Re: Tek O-scope's Available in Oregon
If they were Tek 500 series 'scopes, this would be an interesting
offer, but having become spoiled by the excellent display, and very
sharp traces, over the past two decades, on the 500 series models,
unlike any other 'scopes, no other 'scopes will do. :-)
Alas, biz 'droids always have to go introducing horrid new and
disimproved models when they're selling things that people like.
I've got a Tek 547, complete with scope cart and
several plug-ins I'd be
willing to part with.
R. D. Davis wrote:
>Quothe Zane H. Healy, from writings of Sun, Sep 29, 2002 at
10:36:27AM -0700:
>
>>Oscilliscopes available with all the pluggins (I believe they're the
7704A
>>
>[...]
>
>>If anyone is interested, let me know and I'll put you in contact with
him.
8121
days inactive
8128
days old
27 comments
15 participants
participants (15)
-
archer＠topnow.com -
bfranchuk＠jetnet.ab.ca -
bshannon＠tiac.net -
carlos_murillo＠epm.net.co -
cmcnabb＠4mcnabb.net -
erd_6502＠yahoo.com -
eric＠brouhaha.com -
healyzh＠aracnet.com -
jcwren＠jcwren.com -
jim＠jkearney.com -
philpem＠dsl.pipex.com -
rdd＠rddavis.org -
rigdonj＠cfl.rr.com -
tractorb＠ihug.co.nz -
wmsmith＠earthlink.net