Archiving Software - test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org

16 Dec 2005

...

Subject: RE: Archiving Software
   From: "Cini, Richard" <Richard.Cini at wachovia.com>
   Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2005 08:34:02 -0500
     To: "'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts'"	<cctalk
at classiccmp.org>

The method (using PIP and a COM port) works well for physical machines. We
wrote these utilities for the Altair32 to talk directly to the host
hardware.

Point being that someone could write a generic CP/M utility which can dump a
disk image over a COM port instead of only a file. I like ADT because it has
the nifty ability to download the transfer program to the Apple using
console redirection...ADT basically stuffs a monitor script into the Apple
over the serial connection. CP/M probably has the same ability...I don't
know. 
How about MDM7?  I've used that inside Dave's Horizon Sim with good success.
The MDM7 I used was allready setup for a NS* IO and the Sim maps NS* IO
to COM ports.  

There are two different issues here:  

 * Transfering CP/M files and MDM7 (XMDM, Kermit ...) do that well.
   The Sim side issues vary depening on how IO is simulated.
   For example MyZ80 transfering CP/M files is trivial as there
   is a utility inside the emulated CPM for reading and writing 
   outside to DOS filesystem.  Others are not as flexible.

 * booting a system that has a unique NON-PC compatable format.
   This varies all over the map depending on target system.

Allison

...

-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org]
On Behalf Of Allison
Sent: Friday, December 16, 2005 8:25 AM
To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
Subject: RE: Archiving Software

Subject: RE: Archiving Software
   From: "Cini, Richard" <Richard.Cini at wachovia.com>
   Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2005 08:16:24 -0500
     To: "'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts'"
<cctalk at classiccmp.org>

For archiving MSDOS disks I use ZIP files unless the disk is bootable, in
which case I use readimg/writimg (Microsoft utilities).

For cross-platform archiving, the only thing I've done so far is on the
Apple, using ADT.

However, ADT brings-up an idea. In my Altair emulator, we have a CP/M
utility on one of the disk images which allows you to transfer files from
the host to the emulator space and back (read.com and write.com I think).
The program uses an invalid opcode trap to communicate with the host file
system. You would use a program to convert a CP/M COM program on the host to
 an Intel HEX file which is then read into the CP/M
environment through the
trap mechanism. The reverse would happen except that the "write" does not
convert it to Intel HEX -- it deposits it as a CP/M COM file. 
There are programs for CP/M to handel hexfiles:

LOAD creates a com file from hex (CP/M standard tool)
DDT/SID/ZSID can do the same.

Unload is a PD program (small) that can create an intel hexfile from
a .com file  (the reverse of load).

Those two with PIP file.foo=CON: [or rdr:] can move files in or out
on a serial port.

There are many ways of doing this.

Allison

 The source is on one of the disk images.
There's no reason why it couldn't
be enhanced to move entire disk images instead of just files, and since it's
 a CP/M utility it should work on any CP/M system.
Unfortunately I don't have
 enough experience in programming for CP/M, nor the
time right now, to do it.

Rich

-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org]
On Behalf Of Jules Richardson
Sent: Friday, December 16, 2005 7:02 AM
To: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: Archiving Software

M H Stein wrote:
  Aside from bootable system disks, for which Dave
Dunfield's imaging program
> seems to be a much better solution than Teledisk, what's the best way to 
> archive software in a way that makes it as universally useable as possible
 and 
  downloadable/emailable? 
ImageDisk seems like a definite step in the right direction - it's certainly

done a brilliant job when I've tried it.

What it now needs IMHO is multi-platform support so that you don't *have* to

use DOS and so that it can be used by more people. (Whether a Windows
version 
is viable I don't know; certainly Linux seems to give you all sorts of ways
to 
reach the bare hardware though - presumably *BSD would be the same)

Other than that it seems a viable tool to use - the file format has a
comment 
field of unlimited length for any useful metadata, and is able to record
where 
bad spots were on the original disk.

> For example, I have original distribution diskettes for CP/M Wordstar, 
> Supercalc, etc. on 8" disks. Obviously images wouldn't be very useful for

 > someone with only 5" drives or no
8" drive on the PC; on the other hand, 
> a DOS ZIP file of the files on that disk would have to be copied/converted

  back to a CP/M format disk somehow.  
Well the ImageDisk file format's public - I suppose there's nothing to stop

 someone writing utilities to pull data out of an
image at the file level,
then 
spitting them across a serial link with a terminal app to the original 
hardware. Or converting them back into a 5.25" image file, say.

Getting the data off (and knowing you've captured it all) and onto modern 
media is probably more important than what tools someone may use in the
future 
to interpret the data. Providing it's all captured of course!

  So, how are the rest of you dealing with this?

Burying heads in sand I suspect :) I've finally got a PC that'll handle FM 
data (I think it was the 7th one I tried!), so I can start imaging my own 
collection. Luckily I just have soft-sectored MFM/FM disks here; no 
hard-sectored stuff, GCR encoded media etc.

I need to make the host machine dual-boot DOS/Linux so I can just use DOS to

the actual reading/writing, then Linux for everything else (archival, any 
processing of the files, taking advantage of being able to use longer 
filenames etc.).

I'll give DOSEMU a try under Linux to see if it'll run ImageDisk, but I 
suspect it won't allow the necessary direct access to the hardware... but
I'm 
happy to dedicate a box to disk imaging, so it doesn't really matter if the 
>Linux floppy subsystem gets clobbered in the process. I suspect that
>ImageDisk 
>won't even run under DOSEMU though.
>
>
>cheers
>
>Jules 