7 Aug
2000
7 Aug
'00
9:44 p.m.
Anyone out there know anything about IBM AS/400's?
Looking for some info on the following system.
This is the first AS/400 I've ever seen, so bear with me a little.
I'm not familiar with IBM stuff at all (pc's excepted) Digital Vaxen,
yes.
I picked up a Type 9402-2xx with 4 x Type 0662 1.05Gb SCSI Hard drives
and a 2Gb Tape drive for $30 at an auction in Adelaide last Friday.
Cool looking ~Microvax II sized box, solid metal, with a black plastic
5 piece shroud. (The back bulkhead cover is missing). A badge with the
IBM logo is on the front shroud, with AS/400 Advanced also in the badge.
Thing appears to boot, rattles away at drives, status display is live
etc, but have no idea what/where/how to connect anything to it. Have
numerous cables etc, and an IBM 3477 terminal I found in my back room.
Looking for advice on how/what to connect to it.
Not sure if this fits in the 10 year rule, though the AS/400 itself goes
way back, this machine appears more recent. Early/Mid 90's?
It appears to have at least 16mb of ram on a board inside. (2 x IBM 72
pin SIMMS). There is a DB25F on the back that appears to go to what I
take to be the main board, (which has part no 74G9701) that I assume is
a console port (do these have a console port?) the ram is on a board
with a part number of 74G9722 which I assume is a memory expansion board
of some description. I suspect it's running some version of OS/400
rather than SSP (I think that's the original O/S for these). This
appears to be a RISC machine based on the pic in the docs on the IBM
site, which show that it is a Version 3 AS/400. (Whatever that means.)
The following modules are fitted in the rear bulkhead. Searching for
module no's on the web found virtually nothing to my surprise.
2612 x 1 (A chance encounter in a newsgroup reveals this is an EIA
232/V.24 One-Line Adapter) I translate that as a serial port.
There is a blanking panel below it that would probably allow another to
be fitted there.
2609 x 2 I have some cables that mate to these, IBM P/N 21F9345
(9843),they terminate in a 'black box' with 2 x DB25M's minus pins 9, 14
and 16, marked P1 and P2 which I suspect are terminal ports. I have 4 x
P/N 22F0152 (9835) DB25F to DB25M, with pins 9-14, 16 and 19 missing,
these were hanging off the DB25M's on the 'black boxes'. I assume these
are to connect to a terminal, they certainly fit one of the ports on the
3477. One 22F0152 cable has an oddball DB25F in a plastic shell that
seems to be "wrapped around" the cable, it turns freely, it has 8 wires
that each jump one pin to another pin, and no connection
to the cable itself. Some kind of loopback connector? Spare part?
Inductive pickup? Who knows?
264A (Blank/space filler)
2641 (Blank/space filler)
2623 (some kind of interface, the 2 x 2609's fit into it)
None of these appear to be an ethernet connector, so I will have to hunt
up one of those too I guess.
Some 3180 "R2D2" Twinax based terms and cables came with it, however
there does not appear to be any kind of Twinax connector on the machine.
There were also some 'clone' type terms with it, but someone else got
them. I suspect these ran off the
IBM's web site has some docs etc available, but the physics of what and
how to connect terms etc are buried deep if they even exist there.
From sticker on metal side of unit
(Under the
black plastic cover)
Type 9402 S/N 10-1428A
Release Level V3ROM5
PTF Level C4179305
TSP (Y/N) : NO
Software License Type: NONE
On a small sticker on the back panel
Type 9402-2xx
S/N 10-1428A
MS9402101428A
Any help appreciated, replies off list if this is off topic most
welcome..
Thanks in advance,
Geoff Roberts
Computer Systems Manager
Saint Mark's College
Port Pirie,
South Australia
geoffrob(a)stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au
netcafe(a)tell.net.au
ICQ: 1970476
8 Aug
8 Aug
2:19 a.m.
I found this PDP 11-23 on ebay, it currently has no bids and the
starting bid is $39.50. I have nothing to do with this item and
if I knew something about the pdp series I might have kept my
mouth shut. ;-) Bidding ends on Aug-12-00 19:13:52 PDT
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=403966515
--
Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry ncherry(a)home.net
http://members.home.net/ncherry (Text only)
http://meltingpot.fortunecity.com/lightsey/52 (Graphics)
http://linuxha.sourceforge.net/ (SourceForge)
2:46 a.m.
New subject: Slow Grinding Mills
Cute article on /.
http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=00/08/07/1859236&mode=thread
<quote>
Enigma-like Device Patent Granted - 67 Years Later
Encryption | Posted by Hemos on Monday August 07, @04:31PM
from the pretty-cool dept.
Thanks to Bruce
Schneier[?] of Counterpane fame for sending in
this tidbit. The US Patent Office has granted William Friedman
a patent for an Engima-like device - the catch is that he filed
in 1933. Still it's a cool vintage piece of crypto - and I also
noticed that a gallery copy of Bruce's new book is on eBay.
'Course, you could wait just a few weeks and buy a new one, but
hey - if you gotta have it now, you gotta have it.
</quote>
:))
Gruss
H.
--
VCF Europa 2.0 am 28./29. April 2001 in Muenchen
http://www.vintage.org/vcfe
http://www.homecomputer.de/vcfe
4:37 a.m.
On Tue, 8 Aug 2000, Geoff Roberts wrote:
Thing appears to boot, rattles away at drives, status
display is live
etc, but have no idea what/where/how to connect anything to it. Have
numerous cables etc, and an IBM 3477 terminal I found in my back room.
Looking for advice on how/what to connect to it.
I am not an especially big expert on AS/400's other than retrieving two
old CISC models this year. (Kinda like staying at a holiday inn, I guess)
It depends on the model, but often one needs a twinax terminal set for 0,0
to act as a console. On the newer models, the twinax connectors go to a
DB9 (DB something anyway) connector on the back of the machine so there is
an additional balun needed to actually connect to the twinax media. My
documentation indicates that some models of 9402 CISC machine could
actually take ASCII consoles, so perhaps there were models in the RISC
variety that were this way too if you're lucky.
Not sure if this fits in the 10 year rule, though the
AS/400 itself goes
way back, this machine appears more recent. Early/Mid 90's?
I believe if it is black is a RISC based machine.
snip
2612 x 1 (A chance encounter in a newsgroup reveals
this is an EIA
232/V.24 One-Line Adapter) I translate that as a serial port.
I think it is intended for a support modem.
None of these appear to be an ethernet connector, so I
will have to hunt
up one of those too I guess.
It will be ugly since ethernet is a licen$ed feature on AS/400.
Speaking of which, you will probably need the system password, an enormous
hex number which allows the software to continue working.
My documentation which came with my CISC 9402 even indicates that there
are movement sensors in some machines which will trigger if large
movements are detected and prompt for the system password. This was an
attempt to thwart people selling the machines without sending proper dowry
to IBM. Often times the machine will run for 90 days or so without a
system password but eventually on IPL one is needed for it to continue to
function.
This, combined with my lack of twinax infrastructure caused my CISC
machines to make the ultimate sacrifice. Properly reformatted they
provide nice IBM scsi drives for my more usable machines.
Paul
5:33 p.m.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Thompson" <thompson(a)mail.athenet.net>
To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2000 11:07 PM
Subject: Re: AS/400?
Makes sense. I have a cable that suggests it was for a remote control
box of some kind that
would appear to fit that hole.
I am not an especially big expert on AS/400's
other than retrieving
two
old CISC models this year. (Kinda like staying at a
holiday inn, I
guess)
It depends on the model, but often one needs a twinax terminal set for
0,0
to act as a console.
This box seems to have no twinax access. AFAICT, it was actually used
with some
'clone' terminals, the twinax ones that came with it were apparently for
an earlier incarnation
of the system, probably thrown in a store room til the whole thing was
axed..
documentation indicates that some models of 9402 CISC
machine could
actually take ASCII consoles, so perhaps there were models in the RISC
variety that were this way too if you're lucky.
Hmm, I did try a VT320 into what I thought might be the console, but
some of
the online docs suggest it needs a magic cable of some description.
I believe if it is black is a RISC based machine.
It's a Version 3 AS/400 (whatever that means). No other info yet.
Dates on the drives seem to be circa 94.
2612 x 1 (A
chance encounter in a newsgroup reveals this is an EIA
232/V.24 One-Line Adapter) I translate that as a serial port.
I think it is intended for a support modem. It will be ugly since ethernet is a licen$ed feature
on AS/400.
yeah, that'd be right.
Speaking of which, you will probably need the system
password, an
enormous
hex number which allows the software to continue
working.
seems to depend on what version/OS it's running. Other information
suggests it's probably
OS/400 V3R2 or thereabouts rather than SSP.
My documentation which came with my CISC 9402 even
indicates that
there
are movement sensors in some machines which will
trigger if large
movements are detected and prompt for the system password.
I've had a look for anything like that. The size of this suggests it
would not have such a feature,
as it's only the size of a biggish pc based file server
attempt to thwart people selling the machines without
sending proper
dowry
to IBM. Often times the machine will run for 90 days
or so without a
system password but eventually on IPL one is needed for it to continue
to
function.
Paranoia, without a doubt.
This, combined with my lack of twinax infrastructure
caused my CISC
machines to make the ultimate sacrifice. Properly reformatted they
provide nice IBM scsi drives for my more usable machines.
I have some twinax 3180 terms, and some cables, but this AS/400 seems
not to have the
hardware to speak to them.
If all else fails, I can use 4 x 1Gb SCSI's in my Vaxstation 4000-90.
(With the right adapter anyway, the connectors on the drives are not the
standard internal
bare pin type, but the Honda type normally found on the outside of a
case.)
Cheers
Geoff Roberts
Computer Systems Manager
Saint Mark's College
Port Pirie,
South Australia
geoffrob(a)stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au
netcafe(a)tell.net.au
ICQ: 1970476
10:48 a.m.
"Geoff Roberts" <geoffrob(a)stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> wrote:
Anyone out there know anything about IBM AS/400's?
[...]
I picked up a Type 9402-2xx with 4 x Type 0662 1.05Gb
SCSI Hard drives
Go to
http://www.ibmlink.ibm.com/
Choose IBMLink for the United States (at the bottom of the list).
Choose "Sales Manual" under InfoLink.
Enter "9402" in the Product Number field and click Search.
There'll be a list of all the 9402 series. You presumably want
9402-200, unless what you have is a 9402-236 or 9402-20S.
This will give you *lots* of useful information.
Note that since your machine is CISC-based, it does NOT come with any
software licenses, and software licenses are NOT transferrable, so you
will have to buy an OS/400 license from IBM. We're talking really big
bucks. :-(
Also, if you ever have to reinstall the software from scratch, you will
need a MULIC (Model-Unique Licensed Internal Code) tape. If at all
possible, try to get this from the seller.
Also, under certain circumstances the computer will as for a system
password at IPL time. If you don't have a system password, you will
be given the opportunity to use the system for up to 70 days (IIRC),
after which time you will no longer be able to IPL. I'm told that if
the system is powered off for a long time, that's one of the conditions
that will cause it to ask for a system password. If you need a system
password, you'll have to pay big bucks to IBM.
Because of these problems, I'd strongly recommend that anyone interested
in acquiring an AS/400 try to get a newer RISC-based model instead. With
the RISC-based models, the software licenses are transferrable.
I have a 9406-B45 and another 9406 which I have not yet identified.
I've put some links at:
http://www.brouhaha.com/~eric/retrocomputing/ibm/as400/
7:25 p.m.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Eric Smith" <eric(a)brouhaha.com>
To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2000 5:18 AM
Subject: Re: AS/400?
"Geoff Roberts"
<geoffrob(a)stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> wrote:
drives
Anyone out there know anything about IBM
AS/400's?
[...]
> I picked up a Type 9402-2xx with 4 x Type 0662 1.05Gb SCSI Hard There'll be a list of all the 9402 series. You
presumably want
9402-200, unless what you have is a 9402-236 or 9402-20S
Good question. The model number on the sticker at the base of the black
front plastic
shroud is given literally as "Type 9402-2xx" with "xxx" not numbers
after the 2.
The S/N is 10-1428A does that help at all?
The drives are apparently SCSI-2 with the Honda mini connectors not the
standard
SCSI bare pins (like oversize ide), they are what you find on the back
of Decstations
and the like. Never seen one on a drive before.
The drives have dates from 94 or later. Front label suggests it came
with 2 from the
factory, so it would seem the others were added later.
Note that since your machine is CISC-based,
Er actually, this is a circa 1994 machine, with the black plastic
shroud/case over the
metal cabinet, and I was informed elsewhere that this indicates a RISC
machine....
Is there an easy way to confirm this?
The docs on the IBM site prove it to be a "Version 3 AS/400 Advanced
System",
(the badge on the front says AS/400 Advanced) which I would have bet
meant RISC machine.
Is there a simple way to tell?
and software licenses are NOT transferrable, so you
will have to buy an OS/400 license from IBM. We're talking really big
bucks. :-(
Like for VMS before hobbyist licenses sorta. Yeah.
Also, if you ever have to reinstall the software from
scratch, you
will
need a MULIC (Model-Unique Licensed Internal Code)
tape. If at all
possible, try to get this from the seller.
Ex auction, if I ever get the beast up and running, I can probably trace
the owner.
Also, under certain circumstances the computer will as
for a system
password at IPL time. If you don't have a system password, you will
be given the opportunity to use the system for up to 70 days (IIRC),
after which time you will no longer be able to IPL. I'm told that if
the system is powered off for a long time, that's one of the
conditions
that will cause it to ask for a system password. If
you need a system
password, you'll have to pay big bucks to IBM.
Because of these problems, I'd strongly recommend that anyone
interested
in acquiring an AS/400 try to get a newer RISC-based
model instead.
With
the RISC-based models, the software licenses are
transferrable.
So this is only an issue on the CISC versions I take it?
I have a 9406-B45 and another 9406 which I have not
yet identified.
I've put some links at:
http://www.brouhaha.com/~eric/retrocomputing/ibm/as400/
Didn't help much. The Mid Blue list looks interesting, but the features
in this box
don't seem to be listed there. If the stuff it refers to are for the
earlier CISC boxes,
and IF this is a RISC machine, that would be why I guess.
I'm actually starting to wonder if this is actually an AS/400 or whether
it's an expansion
box for one. I've yet to identify a CPU anywhere, and some of the stuff
I read suggests it's
a plug in module. That might mean we have a disk/tape controller, and
IOP to communicate with
the rest of the system, and some access/control modules. OTOH, I don't
know if this version of the
AS/400 made use of expansion boxes like the earlier ones.
Cheers
Geoff Roberts
Computer Systems Manager
Saint Mark's College
Port Pirie,
South Australia
geoffrob(a)stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au
netcafe(a)tell.net.au
ICQ: 1970476
7:50 p.m.
Anyone have a pinout for the "magic cable" listed below.
It's the console cable for an IBM AS/400. It's just a DB25M-DB25F, but
has some magic wiring to make it work as a console.
| Feature Code | Cable Length
| Part Number |
|_____________________|_____________________|_____________________|
| 9026 | 6 m (20 ft)
| 46G0450 |
|_____________________|_____________________|_____________________|
| 9027 | 2.5 m (8 ft)
| 46G0479 |
|_____________________|_____________________|_____________________|
Thanks
Geoff Roberts
Computer Systems Manager
Saint Mark's College
Port Pirie,
South Australia
geoffrob(a)stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au
netcafe(a)tell.net.au
ICQ: 1970476
9:01 p.m.
"Geoff Roberts" <geoffrob(a)stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> wrote:
I believe that to be false. The IBMLink sales information for that
model says that it runs OS/400 V3R1 or V3R2, which only run on CISC models.
RISC models run V3R7 or V4Rx.
Note that
since your machine is CISC-based,
Er actually, this is a circa 1994 machine, with the black plastic
shroud/case over the
metal cabinet, and I was informed elsewhere that this indicates a RISC
machine....
9:28 p.m.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Eric Smith" <eric(a)brouhaha.com>
To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2000 3:31 PM
Subject: Re: AS/400?
models.
"Geoff Roberts"
<geoffrob(a)stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> wrote:
>> Note that since your machine is CISC-based,
>
> Er actually, this is a circa 1994 machine, with the black plastic
> shroud/case over the
> metal cabinet, and I was informed elsewhere that this indicates a
RISC
machine....
I believe that to be false. The IBMLink sales information for that
model says that it runs OS/400 V3R1 or V3R2, which only run on CISC RISC models run V3R7 or V4Rx.
Ok, thanks for that. I'll try and confirm it locally. I take it this
is probably a Type 9402-200 then?
Cheers
Geoff Roberts
Computer Systems Manager
Saint Mark's College
Port Pirie,
South Australia
geoffrob at stmarks dot pp dot catholic dot edu dot au
ICQ: 1970476
9 Aug
9 Aug
4:28 p.m.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Eric Smith" <eric(a)brouhaha.com>
To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2000 3:31 PM
Subject: Re: AS/400?
I believe that to be false. The IBMLink sales
information for that
model says that it runs OS/400 V3R1 or V3R2, which only run on CISC
models.
RISC models run V3R7 or V4Rx.
Further to this:
Now I'm really confused......
Check out this:-
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=400945276
9402 OR 9404 Model 400 WITH 2131 Processor w/V4R3 LICENSED SOFTWARE
INSTALLED!!!(9402-400 AND 9404-400 ARE THE SAME, THE 9404-400 IS JUST A
UPGRADED MODEL ) READY FOR YOUR DEVELOPMENT PROJECT, A SOFTWARE TEST
MACHINE OR THIS BOX WILL RUN A SMALL TO MEDIUM BUSINESS!!!!!!!!! 224MB
Main Storage.... 16GB DASD... 6390 7GB 8MM Tape Drive.... 7108 CARD
EXPANSION FEATURE.... 5135 FEATURE POWER SUPPLY .... 2617 ETHERNET
ADAPTER & Ethernet Transceiver 2619 TOKEN RING ADAPTER BASE CD-ROM 9148
TWINAX SUPPORT 40 DEVICES
My machine looks EXACTLY like this one, except it doesn't have a CDROM.
It doesn't have this much ram etc either, but I was under the impression
that
the CISC machines are in a different outer case to the RISC boxes.
Like I said, now I'm really confused.........
Is there more than one type 9402??? ie one CISC, one RISC?
One other person has suggested the CISC machines (Version 1 and 2
AS/400)
are in a grey case. Who knows. Getting anything useful out of IBM or
their web site
except for the latest and greatest version is about as simple as getting
a bank loan.
Cheers
Geoff Roberts
Computer Systems Manager
Saint Mark's College
Port Pirie,
South Australia
geoffrob(a)stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au
netcafe(a)tell.net.au
ICQ: 1970476
5:18 p.m.
"Geoff Roberts" <geoffrob(a)stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> wrote:
Is there more than one type 9402??? ie one CISC, one
RISC?
All "Type 9402" means is a "small" AS/400. Versus 9401 (very small),
9404
(midsize), and 9406 (big).
The type number must be considered together with the model number, e.g.,
9402-200, in order to identify a machine.
A 9402-200 is *much* different internally than a 9402-400.
5:37 p.m.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Geoff Roberts" <geoffrob(a)stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au>
To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2000 10:58 AM
Subject: Re: AS/400?
Now I'm really confused......
Check out this:-
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=400945276
My machine looks EXACTLY like this one, except it doesn't have a
CDROM.
You can disregard this, I now have definitive evidence it's a CISC
machine.
I just need to confirm whether it's still useable. If it needs a system
password I'm going
to scrap the sucker. (Just like Mr. IBM wants I guess)
Thanks for your help with this....
Cheers
Geoff Roberts
Computer Systems Manager
Saint Mark's College
Port Pirie,
South Australia
geoffrob(a)stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au
netcafe(a)tell.net.au
ICQ: 1970476
8725
days inactive
8726
days old
12 comments
5 participants
participants (5)
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eric＠brouhaha.com -
geoffrob＠stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au -
Hans.Franke＠mch20.sbs.de -
ncherry＠home.net -
thompson＠mail.athenet.net