Ian King <IanK at vulcan.com> wrote: The problem that I see is that Microsoft advocates usually try to prove that everyone else is wrong without ever considering if they have reason for the bashing. It's a gut reaction, which I'm sure Microsoft loves to see. It's like unconditional buying in to the party line without any questions. And it's mostly by people who actually have very actual experience with anything else. Not saying that this is true for you specifically, Ian. Just noting in general... And it's a sad day when people think that CERT is in any way related to quality in any way. CERT first of all are only reporting potential security problems, not quality problems. Second, CERT have had a tendency to not even reveal problems that are reported until after they have been fixed, which gives you both a skewed view, and also don't tell you how much of a problem something really have been. Third, as you note, just using the numbers from CERT don't even tell you if this is a big or a small problem, so what do these numbers really tell you??? Oh, and noone (I hope) is claiming that any OS is without flaws. It's the design flaws that really upsets me (and others, I think). I don't know where you got that fact from, but anyway. Even assuming that is true, you skip around some big problems here, such as the fact that most people running Windows are doing so with privileges to install a device driver straight away (it's usually connected with big problems using Windows without having privileges), while you normally run without the privilege of installing a device driver in most other systems. However, defect device drivers are certainly a big problem. But what I find to be a bigger problem in Windows are actually incompatible DLL-files. All delivered from Microsoft. And all called the same thing, but different versions. But some programs require one version to work, while another program needs another version, and both are incompatible with the other. So, what do I do then? And this will not cause Windows to crash. But it's a mess anyway. DLL hell ring a bell? Once more. No one is (I hope) claiming that there is a perfect OS without problems. However, Microsoft seems to have just about any problem any other OS had, and then invented a few new problems never seen before. And many of those are not something for CERT, or even crashes. Just things that don't work as it should. The concept of doing a reinstall of the OS every six to twelve months to get the system back into shape is not something any other company that I know of have as a concept. Neither the reboot every week. The latter is becoming less of a problem though, as software updates nowadays usually require you to reboot the system anyway, so you never run systems long enough to get into the problems Windows seem to get once it has been running for a month or so. I agree. But the fact that seem to be getting better and better should really be a warning bell, and not a proof of quality. If they could be improving quality so much that it seems appearant for anyone using the system, and to do that time and again, says that quality must have started on a really low level. And do you really think that by doing a few iterations, quality suddenly then is top notch? And what happened with Vista? Ok. I'll make a disclosure as well. I hate Linux. I think it's a total disaster. It's a bunch of clowns who hardly knows how to write an OS sitting around hacking along as much as they can, and learning along the way. Is that something I'd like to depend upon? No! But I'd still pick Linux before windows if I have to. But not being happy about it. And I spend time working on RSX, and even getting paid for it. And I'm having a blast. Even though I know of a bunch of problems, bugs, and security issues with the system. It is by no means bug free, but at least most things work pretty much the way they are meant to, and the systems have been chugging away for over 20 years without any major issues. Security problems - yes. Performance problems - no. I guess that from a CERT point of view, RSX would loose to Windows. But I know of a few steel mills and paper mills that wouldn't be impressed with Windows. Rebooting once a year is not an option. Especially not if a few tons of hot steel is being processed right at that moment. There. I'll stop my Windows bashing now, and pray that I'll be able to keep working without having to deal with that OS. :-) Johnny -- Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol