18 Oct
2004
18 Oct
'04
4:55 p.m.
The PC approach is to somehow wangle the five ADCs into the PC
such that it will accept the 65536 5-byte (5-nybble) samples
with ZERO LATENCY.
--
The design I did for the analog 9 track data aquisition board
uses five Analog Devices 10 bit dual 10megasample A/D's. These
have parallel outs, and are synchronous (designed for direct
IF amplifier digitization). The five are multiplexed into a
FIFO which interfaces to a 40 pin cable to a PCI DMA IDE card.
So, you end up with a ten channel synchronous data stream with
a protocol that just looks like chained IDE DMAs.
18 Oct
18 Oct
4:58 p.m.
New subject: Sell's your 8's on Ebay
A pdp-8/S is selling for $3,825. With prices like this who can afford
computer collecting
since all the 'kid you have free - if you carry it away' computers are
long gone?
5:14 p.m.
New subject: Sell's your 8's on Ebay
A pdp-8/S is selling for $3,825. With prices like
this who can afford
computer collecting
since all the 'kid you have free - if you carry it away' computers are
long gone?
Not a suprise - the 8/s is the second rarest of the -8 line (LINC-8 being
the most). They very rarely come on the market. I don't think a LINC-8 has
ever been on the market.
Some machines will never approach that sort of value. Picking on Honeywell
again, I doubt a Level 6 will ever be worth even a tenth of a PDP-8, even
in 50 years.
William Donzelli
aw288(a)osfn.org
5:30 p.m.
New subject: Sell's your 8's on Ebay
On Mon, Oct 18, 2004 at 10:14:04PM -0400, William Donzelli wrote:
I'm glad I got mine a few years ago... scarily enough, it's not my
most expensive -8 (my first -8/a would qualify, but that's because I
threw a KT8A, 128K MOS board and an RL8A in it at mid-1980s prices,
hundreds of dollars per board). I've driven plenty of cars that
cost less than that particular -8/a.
A pdp-8/S is
selling for $3,825. With prices like this who can afford
computer collecting
since all the 'kid you have free - if you carry it away' computers are
long gone?
Not a suprise - the 8/s is the second rarest of the -8 line (LINC-8 being
the most). They very rarely come on the market. I don't think a LINC-8 has
ever been on the market.
I certainly have never seen one available.
-ethan
--
Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 19-Oct-2004 02:20 Z
South Pole Station
PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -62.2 F (-52.3 C) Windchill -94.5 F (-70.3 C)
APO AP 96598 Wind 9.6 kts Grid 050 Barometer 675.7 mb (10788. ft)
Ethan.Dicks(a)amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html
5:33 p.m.
New subject: Sell's your 8's on Ebay
William Donzelli wrote:
Some machines will never approach that sort of value. Picking on Honeywell
again, I doubt a Level 6 will ever be worth even a tenth of a PDP-8, even
in 50 years.
Well I have not seen any 'classic' computers sell for $380 around here.
Mind you a lot of BIG IRON still can be found if you drive. ( I don't )
While I know a bit about 8's I am still finding out about the 'rare'
computer
systems on the net. Having DOC's and Pictures and Software on line
is becoming a important way of keeping Classic Computing alive.
William Donzelli
aw288(a)osfn.org
6:55 p.m.
New subject: Sell's your 8's on Ebay
Some machines will never approach that sort of value.
Picking on Honeywell
again, I doubt a Level 6 will ever be worth even a tenth of a PDP-8, even
in 50 years.
Look at it this way, the PDP-8's and PDP-11's have an advantage over
a Honeywell system. Even the rarer 8's and 11's probably are easier
to get parts for, and then there is the whole question of software.
Of course what I'd really like is a DPS-8 emulator and a copy of
GCOS-8 to run on it (or a copy of Multics).
Zane
--
--
| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator |
| healyzh(a)aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast |
| | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
| Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, |
| PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. |
| http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ |
8:40 p.m.
New subject: Sell's your 8's on Ebay
for real fun write a Honeywell 1000 emulator
Thanks Ed Sharpe archivist for SMECC
Please check our web site at
http://www.smecc.org
to see other engineering fields, communications and computation stuff we
buy, and by all means when in Arizona drop in and see us.
address:
coury house / smecc
5802 w palmaire ave
glendale az 85301
----- Original Message -----
From: "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh(a)aracnet.com>
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
<cctalk(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Monday, October 18, 2004 8:55 PM
Subject: Re: Sell's your 8's on Ebay
Some machines
will never approach that sort of value. Picking on
Honeywell
again, I doubt a Level 6 will ever be worth even a tenth of a PDP-8, even
in 50 years.
Look at it this way, the PDP-8's and PDP-11's have an advantage over a
Honeywell system. Even the rarer 8's and 11's probably are easier to get
parts for, and then there is the whole question of software.
Of course what I'd really like is a DPS-8 emulator and a copy of GCOS-8 to
run on it (or a copy of Multics).
Zane
--
--
| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator |
| healyzh(a)aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast |
| | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
| Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, |
| PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. |
| http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ |
20 Oct
20 Oct
3:55 a.m.
New subject: Sell's your 8's on Ebay
At 09:14 PM 10/18/2004, William Donzelli wrote:
Not a suprise - the 8/s is the second rarest of the -8
line (LINC-8 being
the most). They very rarely come on the market. I don't think a LINC-8 has
ever been on the market.
Wow! I remember interfacing to a Linc-8 at WHA-TV at UW-Madison
in '83 or so. It had something to do with feeding weather reports
to the closed-captioning system, and I linked it to RSTS/E
so people could get weather reports online... I wonder what
happened to it.
- John
18 Oct
18 Oct
5:37 p.m.
New subject: Sell's your 8's on Ebay
The PDP8/S is the rarest and, in a quirky way, the
most interesting, member of a series of machines that
was particularly significant and popular among
collectors. It is not surprising that it would be
highly-valued. It is also an earlier machine than
is often found today in restorable condition, using
discrete-transistor circuitry. The particular example
for sale is also very display-worthy, appearing to be
truly museum-quality. I wouldn't read too much to
much into this for the state of computer collecting
in general, though the older (> 25 years) and rarer
machines are only going to continue to increase in
value.
--Bill
19 Oct
19 Oct
11:13 a.m.
New subject: Sell's your 8's on Ebay
--- ben franchuk <bfranchuk(a)jetnet.ab.ca> wrote:
A pdp-8/S is selling for $3,825. With prices like
this who can afford
computer collecting
since all the 'kid you have free - if you carry it
away' computers are
long gone?
Long gone? For almost nothing I can fill a garage with
computers in less then a month. A Vic-20 isn't more or
less interesting then a PDP-8/S, if you keep an open
mind about it.
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20 Oct
20 Oct
2:55 a.m.
New subject: Sell's your 8's on Ebay
>> Long gone? For almost nothing I can fill a
garage with
>> computers in less then a month. A Vic-20 isn't more or less
>> interesting then a PDP-8/S, if you keep an open mind about it.
But ViC-20's are sure a lot easier to move around! <grin>
Also, I have a VIC-20 here in very good condition with a Koala pad! Willing
to trade for a PDP-8 (reasonible cash offers also accepted)
12:01 p.m.
New subject: Sell's your 8's on Ebay
computers in less then a month. A Vic-20 isn't
more or
less interesting then a PDP-8/S, if you keep an open
mind about it.
I totally diaagree with that comment. My interest in computers is
hardware related (I follow Steve Ciarcia in that 'my favourite language
is solder' :-)). And to me, therefore, a bit-serial processor made from
either simple integrated circuits or discrete transistors (I forget which
the 8/S is) is a lot more interesting than a machine built round a
microprocessor and, even worse, semi-custom video and sound ICs.
Different people have different interests, sure, and I am not saying that
those who like the VIC20 (and similar machines) are in any way 'wrong'.
It's just not my main interest.
-tony
1:27 p.m.
New subject: Sell's your 8's on Ebay
On Wed, Oct 20, 2004 at 10:01:16PM +0100, Tony Duell wrote:
I totally diaagree with that comment. My interest in
computers is
hardware related (I follow Steve Ciarcia in that 'my favourite language
is solder' :-)). And to me, therefore, a bit-serial processor made from
either simple integrated circuits or discrete transistors (I forget which
the 8/S is) is a lot more interesting than a machine built round a
microprocessor and, even worse, semi-custom video and sound ICs.
It's 100% discrete transistors (though the external console device, a PT08,
has some early Motorola ICs on the W706 and W707 boards).
Different people have different interests, sure, and I
am not saying that
those who like the VIC20 (and similar machines) are in any way 'wrong'.
It's just not my main interest.
Well... I can agree with you that hardware is utterly fascinating. OTOH,
I also do a lot of programming, from firmware to applications, so strictly
personally, I find both the VIC-20 and the PDP-8/S interesting. I can
spend hours to weeks working on either one, doing different things (and
have!) There are some people on this list (Jerome Fine comes to mind as
an example) that are completely fixated on the software side of things;
the specific hardware is unimportant if it runs the right software.
Different machines have different fascinations to me, but one thing they
all have that holds my interest is hardware fiddling... I love to build
new peripherals, repair old ones, etc. *But*... once things are working,
I also like to 'make them dance' - hardware only goes so far, then you
need software to show it off (something a friend of mine learned years
ago when he was strictly a design engineer - he was done when the device
would run some code, any code; then, it was handed over to the developers
who made a product out of it. He does software now).
So I like to do different things with computers... I don't do any much
hardware fiddling on a 1.5GHz PeeCeeoid running RedHat, nor assembly
programming, but I do _lots_ of application programming on it (ZDungeon,
LCDproc, etc.) OTOH, I don't do lots of application programming on the
PET anymore (I did when it was my primary machine 25 years ago), but I
still do hardware projects and the occasional assembler program. With
PDP-8s, it's more hardware than software, and on it goes.
Everybody has their own niche. I'm happy with mine. Gives me lots to
do.
-ethan
--
Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 20-Oct-2004 22:10 Z
South Pole Station
PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -67.5 F (-55.4 C) Windchill -93 F (-69.40 C)
APO AP 96598 Wind 5.4 kts Grid 098 Barometer 677.1 mb (10735. ft)
Ethan.Dicks(a)amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html
5:07 p.m.
New subject: Sell's your 8's on Ebay
It's 100% discrete transistors (though the
external console device, a PT08,
has some early Motorola ICs on the W706 and W707 boards).
Mine is a hybird. Most of the Flip Chips are oddball versions of standard
modules with strange thick film (I think) modules in place of the discrete
transistors, diodes, and resistors.
A short lived DECproject, apparently.
William Donzelli
aw288(a)osfn.org
21 Oct
21 Oct
12:21 a.m.
New subject: Sell's your 8's on Ebay
Tony Duell wrote:
I totally diaagree with that comment. My interest in computers is
hardware related (I follow Steve Ciarcia in that 'my favourite language
is solder' :-)). And to me, therefore, a bit-serial processor made from
either simple integrated circuits or discrete transistors (I forget which
the 8/S is) is a lot more interesting than a machine built round a
microprocessor and, even worse, semi-custom video and sound ICs.
I totally aggree with you.
Different people have different interests, sure, and I
am not saying that
those who like the VIC20 (and similar machines) are in any way 'wrong'.
It's just not my main interest.
Same here.
Bert
2:15 a.m.
New subject: Hardware (What Interests me....) was : (PDP-8/s on e-bay)
>> Tony Duell wrote:
>> >
>> > I totally diaagree with that comment. My interest in computers is
>> > hardware related (I follow Steve Ciarcia in that 'my favourite
>> > language is solder' :-)).
I also have a large interest in the hardware details of the machines.
On the other hand I am a complete (though professionally trained)
Klutz when it comes to working with it. Great in theory, poor in practice
(but that is really another topic).
>> > And to me, therefore, a bit-serial
processor made from
>> > either simple integrated circuits or discrete transistors
>> > (I forget which the 8/S is) is a lot more interesting
>> > than a machine built round a microprocessor and, even worse,
>> > semi-custom video and sound ICs.
Here I disagree a bit. I worked for a firm that designed custom
Monolithics and hybrid products. From a repairability aspect this
Effectively makes them "bricks". The functional detailes of these
Products were however well documented and it was possible to
Learn most of the inner workings.
Items like custon-video and sound tend to be totally proprietary and
Their inner workings a mystery. On the other hand, processors tend
to be very well documented on the inner workings. These I find just
(or nearly) as interesting with the only downside that I can learn
but not modify or repair.
Regardless of the processor/OS/language/etc, I truly believe that
It is impossible to write great software without an understanding
Of the internal hardware. True, we do not (typically) need to think
through every register/register transfer for application design. But
Still.....
2:18 p.m.
New subject: Hardware (What Interests me....) was : (PDP-8/s on e-bay)
>> Tony Duell wrote:
>> >
>> > I totally diaagree with that comment. My interest in computers is
>> > hardware related (I follow Steve Ciarcia in that 'my favourite
>> > language is solder' :-)).
I also have a large interest in the hardware details of the machines.
On the other hand I am a complete (though professionally trained)
Klutz when it comes to working with it. Great in theory, poor in practice
(but that is really another topic). >> > And to me, therefore, a bit-serial
processor made from
>> > either simple integrated circuits or discrete transistors
>> > (I forget which the 8/S is) is a lot more interesting
>> > than a machine built round a microprocessor and, even worse,
>> > semi-custom video and sound ICs.
Here I disagree a bit. I worked for a firm that designed custom
Monolithics and hybrid products. From a repairability aspect this
Effectively makes them "bricks". The functional detailes of these
Products were however well documented and it was possible to
Learn most of the inner workings.
Items like custon-video and sound tend to be totally proprietary and
Their inner workings a mystery. On the other hand, processors tend
to be very well documented on the inner workings. These I find just
I think the documenation on the PDP11/45 (this being the machine I am
most familiar with) is at least an order-of-magnitude more detailed than
that on any microprocessor I've seen...
(or nearly) as interesting with the only downside that
I can learn
but not modify or repair.
Regardless of the processor/OS/language/etc, I truly believe that
It is impossible to write great software without an understanding
Equally, I think it's impossible to design good hardware (processors,
video display suystems, etc) without some understanding of the software
that is to run on them.
But then it still amazes me that I know many programmers who don't own a
'scope or soldering iron (and wouldn't really know how to use them
anyway), but I don't know a single hardware hacker who doesn't have a C
compiler and know how to use it.
-tony
4:22 p.m.
New subject: Hardware (What Interests me....) was : (PDP-8/s on e-bay)
On Fri, 22 Oct 2004, Tony Duell wrote:
But then it still amazes me that I know many
programmers who don't own a
'scope or soldering iron (and wouldn't really know how to use them
anyway), but I don't know a single hardware hacker who doesn't have a C
compiler and know how to use it.
HITS NAIL ON HEAD
4:42 p.m.
New subject: Hardware (What Interests me....) was : (PDP-8/s on e-bay)
>>
>> > But then it still amazes me that I know many programmers
>> who don't own
>> > a 'scope or soldering iron (and wouldn't really know how
>> to use them
>> > anyway), but I don't know a single hardware hacker who
>> doesn't have a
>> > C compiler and know how to use it.
>>
>> HITS NAIL ON HEAD
1) I know many hardware hackers who don't know a compiler from a debugger
[Thinking of some of my Ham buddies]....
2) I tend to hit finger with hammer and from nail.
Other than that I agree...
19 Oct
19 Oct
10:44 p.m.
New subject: Sell's your 8's on Ebay
In message <417474E2.9060502(a)jetnet.ab.ca>
ben franchuk <bfranchuk(a)jetnet.ab.ca> wrote:
A pdp-8/S is selling for $3,825. With prices like
this who can afford
computer collecting
since all the 'kid you have free - if you carry it away' computers are
long gone?
I see what you mean. Someone was selling a Commodore 64 in the local Free-ads
paper a while back - C64, broken PSU, a couple of games, sold as seen, ?150.
This was back when the going rate for a second-hand 400MHz PCs was ?100.
I actually spoke to the seller over the phone - "I paid ?100 for it in 1989
so I want ?150 for it now - there are people that collect these machines,
they're worth a lot, only made a hundred of them you know."
Uuuuggghhhh....
Later.
--
Phil. | Acorn Risc PC600 Mk3, SA202, 64MB, 6GB,
philpem(a)philpem.me.uk | ViewFinder, 10BaseT Ethernet, 2-slice,
http://www.philpem.me.uk/ | 48xCD, ARCINv6c IDE, SCSI
... Is this yours? Your dog left it on my lawn ...
18 Oct
18 Oct
10:18 p.m.
On Mon, 18 Oct 2004, Al Kossow wrote:
The design I did for the analog 9 track data
aquisition board
uses five Analog Devices 10 bit dual 10megasample A/D's. These
have parallel outs, and are synchronous (designed for direct
IF amplifier digitization). The five are multiplexed into a
FIFO which interfaces to a 40 pin cable to a PCI DMA IDE card.
Those IQ ADCs? The IDE interface is probably beyond me, though
I can see it's completely the way to go, though it means some
serious hardware and software work.
7248
days inactive
7251
days old
20 comments
14 participants
participants (14)
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aek＠spies.com -
ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk -
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bert＠brothom.nl -
bfranchuk＠jetnet.ab.ca -
dickset＠amanda.spole.gov -
dvcorbin＠optonline.net -
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