21 Mar
2013
21 Mar
'13
1:35 p.m.
I may buy one in 1000 years if it proved to last that long.
Reads a lot like a life time guarantee scam though. After the main batch of sales the
company pays out employees then declares bankruptcy and you have your 1 year lifetime
guarantee till they come out with a separate second company with the same name with a 2
and do it all over again. Its clever.
21 Mar
21 Mar
2 p.m.
On Thu, 21 Mar 2013, Sam O'nella wrote:
I may buy one in 1000 years if it proved to last that
long.
Reads a lot like a life time guarantee scam though. After the main
batch of sales the company pays out employees then declares bankruptcy
Most of them declare bankruptcy without paying the employees.
Only the top exec gets paid.
and you have your 1 year lifetime guarantee till they
come out with a
separate second company with the same name with a 2 and do it all over
again. Its clever.
Familiar with Warshawsky and Jc Whitney's?
It's even easier if you have two companies, so that when each goes under,
the other can buy the assets.
2:18 p.m.
On 03/21/2013 01:35 PM, Sam O'nella wrote:
I may buy one in 1000 years if it proved to last that
long.
Reads a lot like a life time guarantee scam though. After the main
batch of sales the company pays out employees then declares
bankruptcy and you have your 1 year lifetime guarantee till they come
out with a separate second company with the same name with a 2 and do
it all over again. Its clever.
There are all sorts of variations on that scheme, requiring you to send
back not only the faulty item, but also the original purchase receipt.
I had a box (5 tubes) of 3M silicone caulk that went bad before I even
had a chance to use it. 3M had an "unconditional 50 year warranty", but
it meant that I had to provide the above and pay for return shipping.
If I'd used it to seal the windows on my house, they'd probably just
give me a free tube and leave me to scrape the old stuff out and apply a
new batch.
"Lifetime" guarantees are the worst abuse. I had a 2-year old drain
spade made by True Temper fail (the blade cracked) with a prominent
"Lifetime guarantee" sticker still visible on it. When I contacted TT
to ask for a replacement, they went through a ritual of "you must have
used it incorrectly" and eventually concluded the issue by saying
"Lifetime" is what we say it is and your guarantee period is up.
On the other hand, a 30-year old Le Creuset dutch oven shed a chip of
the porcelain on the bottom. LC sent me a UPS return box and a new pot
to replace it. All it cost was a phone call. What they received was
several subsequent purchases of their goods from a surprised and loyal
customer.
I wish some companies would learn that lesson. But it seems that the
prevalent attitude is "There's one born every minute".
--Chuck
2:43 p.m.
On Mar 21, 2013, at 5:18 PM, Chuck Guzis <cclist at sydex.com> wrote:
On the other hand, a 30-year old Le Creuset dutch oven
shed a chip of the porcelain on the bottom. LC sent me a UPS return box and a new pot to
replace it. All it cost was a phone call. What they received was several subsequent
purchases of their goods from a surprised and loyal customer.
Wow! That's a heavy item. I'm quite fond of ours, but I'm glad
to hear that they'll perform a proper replacement if something
comes off.
Oxo, on the other hand... we had one of their tea kettles that
opens when you pick it up. Nifty pot, and a nice cheerful orange
color, but when we discovered sparkles in our tea and determined
that it was shedding its interior enamel into the hot water, we
called and asked for a replacement. We were told that it wasn't
supposed to be heated above medium heat (hope you wanted your tea
next Tuesday...) and that they might THINK about replacing it if
we paid to send it back. We took it to Bed Bath and Beyond
instead (because we had gotten it through our wedding registry
there) and they gave us the cash value of the pot with no fuss.
No receipt, no original box, nothing. We ended up buying a
stainless steel teapot and a coat rack with the money.
- Dave
2:59 p.m.
New subject: "Lifetime" guarantees [was Re: OT: 1000 year DVD storage]
"Lifetime" guarantees are the worst abuse.
[...example of abuse...]
When I contacted TT to ask for a replacement, they went through a
ritual of "you must have used it incorrectly" and eventually
concluded the issue by saying "Lifetime" is what we say it is and
your guarantee period is up.
Sounds to me like grounds for a small-claims suit, but of course I
don't know how likely that would be to fly even where I am, never mind
where you are.
On the other hand, a 30-year old Le Creuset dutch oven
shed a chip of
the porcelain on the bottom. LC sent me a UPS return box and a new
pot to replace it. All it cost was a phone call. What they received
was several subsequent purchases of their goods from a surprised and
loyal customer.
Quite so.
Back when I was a kid, there was a brand of tool - I think it was the
Sears house brand, but that memory is very fuzzy - that had lifetime
guarantees that meant something. My father once found one of their
wrenches in a ditch, corroded to the point where it was barely
recognizable. He took it in and they replaced it, no questions, no
fuss at all.
I wish some companies would learn that lesson.
There are some that do. They are depressingly few-&-far-between.
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3:26 p.m.
New subject: "Lifetime" guarantees [was Re: OT: 1000 year DVD storage]
On 03/21/2013 02:59 PM, Mouse wrote:
Back when I was a kid, there was a brand of tool - I
think it was the
Sears house brand, but that memory is very fuzzy - that had lifetime
guarantees that meant something. My father once found one of their
wrenches in a ditch, corroded to the point where it was barely
recognizable. He took it in and they replaced it, no questions, no
fuss at all.
Sears is/was "Craftsman" and that guarantee may still hold on hand
tools--I'm not certain. At one time, Craftsman hand tools held their
own against the likes of K-D and Snap-On in the area of automotive tools.
About two years ago, I realized that I'd lost the Craftsman claw hammer
that I purchased in 1972. It was a fiberglass-handle model that had
excellent balance--one of those tools that feels like an extension of
your arm. For a time, I contented myself with using a fairly expensive
Dalluge hammer, but I couldn't take it. In desperation, I went to the
local Sears store and described the hammer to a clerk in the tool
department. He disappeared and came back with the new twin of my old
trusty hammer--the only visible difference was the coloring of the epoxy
in the "eye". Yes, it was still made in the USA after almost 40 years
and still game with the "if it breaks, we'll replace it" warranty.
I bought two of them. Subsequently, I discovered that I'd left my old
hammer on top of a sill wall between joists. So now I've got three.
--Chuck
3:34 p.m.
New subject: "Lifetime" guarantees [was Re: OT: 1000 year DVD storage]
Back when I was a kid, there was a brand of tool - I
think it was the
Sears house brand, but that memory is very fuzzy - that had lifetime
guarantees that meant something. My father once found one of their
wrenches in a ditch, corroded to the point where it was barely
recognizable. He took it in and they replaced it, no questions, no
fuss at all.
That would be Craftsman. They still honor that guarantee, even for new
tools. Power tools are not covered this way, however.
--
Will
4:17 p.m.
New subject: "Lifetime" guarantees [was Re: OT: 1000 year DVD storage]
On Thu, 21 Mar 2013, William Donzelli wrote:
That would be Craftsman. They still honor that
guarantee, even for new
tools. Power tools are not covered this way, however.
Harbor Freight has recently changed their guarantee.
It used to be lifetime for all hand tools.
Now it is lifetime "only for their "Pittsburgh" brand, AND requires
receipt"!
Their little voltmeter is an acceptable deal - free with coupon.
Who, other than the seller, would be so attuned to the actual value?
To offend those who are too poor to afford poor quality tools:
There are SOME tools that I want to have one of available,
but do not want to spend the appropriate price for a good one,
such as 16mm and 18mm sockets.
My brother is in town, and wants to borrow some tools. That
makes me very glad that I have some HarborFreight screwdrivers
and wrenches, and won't need to let him near my good ones. I
don't even need to care whether he returns them!
--
Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin at xenosoft.com
3:52 p.m.
New subject: "Lifetime" guarantees [was Re: OT: 1000 year DVD storage]
On Thu, 21 Mar 2013, Mouse wrote:
Back when I was a kid, there was a brand of tool - I
think it was the
Sears house brand, but that memory is very fuzzy - that had lifetime
That would be "Craftsman".
Their "Companion" line were second rate.
"Companion" used to be a house brand of the Craftsman Tool Company,
before Sears bought them out.
In the 1950s and 1960s, Craftsman was excellent.
In the 1970s, their quality plummeted down to well below what Harbor
Freight now sells. I remember a Craftsman socket that was broached
so far off-center that the wall on one side was more than twice as
thick as the wall on the other side.
But, they continued based solely on the gurantee and
their previous reputation.
guarantees that meant something. My father once found
one of their
wrenches in a ditch, corroded to the point where it was barely
recognizable. He took it in and they replaced it, no questions, no
fuss at all.
In the 1970s, Snap-On was by far the best that was readily available.
I used to buy tools at the flea market. For Snap-on, the condition
was secondary, because they were excellent about exchanges. I remember
one time when I encountered a seller who had a LOT of Snap-On and Craftsman
wrenches from an estate. He wanted twice as much for the Craftsman ones,
because HE had heard of them and their gurantee. I bought several dozen
Snap-On items.
One day, on the way home from Harbor Freight (with screwdrivers),
we found a Snap-On screwdriver on the shoulder of the freeway ramp.
The difference is visible. We always go slow on that ramp now.
--
Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin at xenosoft.com
4:56 p.m.
New subject: "Lifetime" guarantees [was Re: OT: 1000 year DVD storage]
On 3/21/2013 2:59 PM, Mouse wrote:
Ya... that was the Sears "Craftsman" brand... don't try that
today! :)
steve
"Lifetime" guarantees are the worst abuse. [...example of abuse...]
When I contacted TT to ask for a replacement, they went through a
ritual of "you must have used it incorrectly" and eventually
concluded the issue by saying "Lifetime" is what we say it is and
your guarantee period is up.
Sounds to me like grounds for a small-claims suit, but of course I
don't know how likely that would be to fly even where I am, never mind
where you are.
On the other hand, a 30-year old Le Creuset dutch
oven shed a chip of
the porcelain on the bottom. LC sent me a UPS return box and a new
pot to replace it. All it cost was a phone call. What they received
was several subsequent purchases of their goods from a surprised and
loyal customer.
Quite so.
Back when I was a kid, there was a brand of tool - I think it was the
Sears house brand, but that memory is very fuzzy - that had lifetime
guarantees that meant something. My father once found one of their
wrenches in a ditch, corroded to the point where it was barely
recognizable. He took it in and they replaced it, no questions, no
fuss at all.
I wish some companies would learn that lesson.
There are some that do. They are depressingly few-&-far-between.
/~\ The ASCII Mouse
\ / Ribbon Campaign
X Against HTML mouse at rodents-montreal.org
/ \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B
6:16 p.m.
New subject: "Lifetime" guarantees [was Re: OT: 1000 year DVD storage]
On 3/21/2013 6:08 PM, William Donzelli wrote:
Interesting.. about a year ago I attempted to claim it on a craftsman
socket wrench that wasn't locking. They offered a "discount" on a new
one from stock in the store...
From that experience, I assumed it was no longer available.
steve
Ya... that
was the Sears "Craftsman" brand... don't try that today! :)
Sears still honors the guarantee, even with hand tools purchased now.
--
Will
6:33 p.m.
New subject: "Lifetime" guarantees [was Re: OT: 1000 year DVD storage]
Interesting.. about a year ago I attempted to claim it
on a craftsman socket
wrench that wasn't locking. They offered a "discount" on a new one from
stock in the store...
From that experience, I assumed it was no longer available.
You probably had a discontinued model.
--
Will
7:39 p.m.
New subject: "Lifetime" guarantees [was Re: OT: 1000 year DVD storage]
They don't have lifetime guarantees on all their tools anymore. I had a Craftsman
torque wrench break on the plastic locking set ring and they wouldn't replace it.
There was only a 1 year warranty on that one.
On Mar 21, 2013, at 8:33 PM, William Donzelli wrote:
Interesting..
about a year ago I attempted to claim it on a craftsman socket
wrench that wasn't locking. They offered a "discount" on a new one from
stock in the store...
From that experience, I assumed it was no longer available.
You probably had a discontinued model.
--
Will
8:01 p.m.
New subject: "Lifetime" guarantees [was Re: OT: 1000 year DVD storage]
They don't have lifetime guarantees on all their
tools anymore. I had a Craftsman torque wrench break on the plastic locking set ring and
they wouldn't replace it. There was only a 1 year warranty on that one.
Yes, some things (like the torque wrenches) only have a year or so,
but most, by far, have the forever warranty. I just cruised the Sears
website, and it seems that every socket wrench I looked at does have
the forever warranty - so I am confused why anyone would have problems
replacing one.
I can see why torque wrenches are not covered - people tend to fuck
them up easily and get them out of calibration - something not easily
confirmed by a casual glance, like a busted screwdriver.
--
Will
7:37 p.m.
New subject: "Lifetime" guarantees [was Re: OT: 1000 year DVD storage]
I had made about three claims on the same problem with their Craftsman ratchet wrenches,
and the current one is experiencing the same problem. I've decided I'm never
buying another Craftsman ratchet wrench again.
On Mar 21, 2013, at 8:16 PM, steve shumaker wrote:
On 3/21/2013 6:08 PM, William Donzelli wrote:
Interesting.. about a year ago I attempted to claim it on a craftsman socket
wrench that wasn't locking. They offered a "discount" on a new one from
stock in the store...
From that experience, I assumed it was no longer available.
steve
Ya...
that was the Sears "Craftsman" brand... don't try that today! :)
Sears still honors the guarantee, even with hand tools purchased now.
--
Will
7:48 p.m.
New subject: "Lifetime" guarantees [was Re: OT: 1000 year DVD storage]
I had made about three claims on the same problem with
their Craftsman ratchet wrenches, and the current one is experiencing the same problem.
I've decided I'm never buying another Craftsman ratchet wrench again.
Maybe they now have a real dog of a tool then - perhaps they switched
suppliers. I had to buy a new Craftsman ratchet and socket set about
five years ago, after some of my tools were stolen, and I have been
very happy with it so far.
Oh well.
--
Will
8:46 p.m.
New subject: "Lifetime" guarantees [was Re: OT: 1000 year DVD storage]
On 03/21/2013 07:48 PM, William Donzelli wrote:
Maybe they now have a real dog of a tool then -
perhaps they switched
suppliers. I had to buy a new Craftsman ratchet and socket set about
five years ago, after some of my tools were stolen, and I have been
very happy with it so far.
Didn't Sears get sued over their rachet wrench design by some guy who
won his case of patent infringement?
I still have my ancient model and it's working as well as it ever did.
--Chuck
22 Mar
22 Mar
6:28 a.m.
New subject: "Lifetime" guarantees [was Re: OT: 1000 year DVD storage]
Mouse wrote:
I wish some
companies would learn that lesson.
There are some that do. They are depressingly few-&-far-between.
4293
days inactive
4294
days old
19 comments
9 participants
participants (9)
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barythrin＠gmail.com -
cclist＠sydex.com -
cisin＠xenosoft.com -
fraveydank＠gmail.com -
jhfinedp3k＠compsys.to -
mouse＠Rodents-Montreal.ORG -
oltmansg＠gmail.com -
shumaker＠att.net -
wdonzelli＠gmail.com