21 Mar
2002
21 Mar
'02
4:34 p.m.
Actually there was a dual microm that would give the
PDT11/150
EIS and FIS...
*actually* -- the dual microm simply combines the 3007 and 3010
microm chips into one dual carrier, which frees up a slot for
the EIS/FIS chip... you still need the EIS/FIS chip, however.
I've got a couple of PDT-11/150s with the mod. There was a version
of space invaders for a VT100 on RT-11 which required EIS/FIS for
some reason. For quite a while we used the EIS/FIS emulator
driver (I think it was from Ian Hammond), at least until we found
a supply for dual microms and EIS/FIS chips.
(This was back in the days when the PDT-11/150 was sold to DEC
employees and we had a broad-spectrum mailing list to discuss
it -- I was a moderator for it)
Megan Gentry
Former RT-11 Developer
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
| Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com |
| Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com |
| Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' |
| 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ |
| Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler |
| (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg KB1FCA |
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
22 Mar
22 Mar
6:39 a.m.
(This was back in the days when the PDT-11/150 was
sold to DEC
employees and we had a broad-spectrum mailing list to discuss
it -- I was a moderator for it)
Megan Gentry
Former RT-11 Developer
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
| Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com |
| Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com |
| Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' |
| 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ |
| Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler |
| (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg KB1FCA |
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
That was back when computing was fun.
Boy, I miss that list and the fun stuff the PDT could do.
If it only had a 10mb hard disk...
Trying to sysgen on dual RX01's was hell.
Bill
--
d|i|g|i|t|a|l had it THEN. Don't you wish you could still buy it now!
bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@ureach.com
7:17 a.m.
New subject: Rockewell System 65
In digging around, I again ran across the Rockwell System 65. A google
search didn't turn up any references except to a Forth system designed
to run on that system. Anyone know anything about this thing? Thanks.
7:50 a.m.
New subject: Rockewell System 65
In digging around, I again ran across the Rockwell
System 65. A google
search didn't turn up any references except to a Forth system designed
to run on that system. Anyone know anything about this thing? Thanks.
D'oh.
Wasn't that the 'big' development system from Rockwell
for the 6502 - before the AIM ? I think I remember something
like that.
Servus
H.
--
VCF Europa 3.0 am 27./28. April 2002 in Muenchen
http://www.vcfe.org/
4:20 p.m.
New subject: Rockewell System 65
Yes, that was the commercial development system for the Rockwell parts ... I
tossed out the complete set of manuals for it about a year ago ... <sigh> ...
I'd hung onto them knowing someone could benefit, but, as always seems to be
the case, I toss 'em and soon enough somebody could've used 'em. It's
like
washing the car to make it rain, I guess.
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: "Hans Franke" <Hans.Franke(a)mch20.sbs.de>
To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Friday, March 22, 2002 11:50 AM
Subject: Re: Rockewell System 65
In digging around, I again ran across the
Rockwell System 65. A google
search didn't turn up any references except to a Forth system designed
to run on that system. Anyone know anything about this thing? Thanks.
D'oh.
Wasn't that the 'big' development system from Rockwell
for the 6502 - before the AIM ? I think I remember something
like that.
Servus
H.
--
VCF Europa 3.0 am 27./28. April 2002 in Muenchen
http://www.vcfe.org/
25 Mar
25 Mar
1 a.m.
New subject: Unix disk images and archiving
I've gotten my '040 Cube's optical drive functioning again and now I
want to take the original distribution optical disks for various
versions of NeXTstep and make bootable copies of them on more usable
media, preferably for storage as disk images and as bootable volumes on
another SCSI disk. I was thinking of using another magneto-optical
drive, such as my Pinnacle Micro Sierra 1.3GB. I've got enough
optical disks to do this and the drive is an external MO. Is this
doable? The images will have to contend with up to 256MB of data and
must be fully writable to a new physical disk, including all boot
information.
My '040 Cube is running NeXTstep 3.3 with CAPer, so if I made
images I could easily move them on to my main Mac for storage. The
distribution disks in question have NS 0.9, 1.0, 1.0a, 2.0, 2.1, and
3.0, as well as a non-bootable disk of 3.2. They've been verified as
readable and still containing the OS (on my '040 Cube after being
locked). Due to the unknown quality of the OD in my '030 Cube I
really don't want to try and boot one on it and I'd like to get them
to another media before I lose the ability to
read them altogether.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks
Jeff
--
Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File
http://www.cchaven.com
http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757
7:09 a.m.
New subject: Unix disk images and archiving
Jeff, after I emailed you my answer last night, I was thinking that you
should be able to just "dd" the images to a files:
dd if=/dev/<insert device here> of=/tmp/name-of-image-file.here
I create floppy images by:
dd if=/dev/rfd0b of=/tmp/3.3_Mot_Boot_Disk.floppyimage
You should be able to do the same for the OD images. It takes about 5
minutes to create a floppyimage (1.44mb) on my Turbo Slab, so the
process won't be fast on a whole 256mb OD. You may have to create a
disktab entry for the Pinnacle Micro Optical Drive, but I've got a Jaz
and a Zip working on my Slab, so I'm sure it's very doable.
Jeff Hellige wrote:
I've gotten my '040 Cube's optical
drive functioning again and now I
want to take the original distribution optical disks for various
versions of NeXTstep and make bootable copies of them on more usable
media, preferably for storage as disk images and as bootable volumes on
another SCSI disk. I was thinking of using another magneto-optical
drive, such as my Pinnacle Micro Sierra 1.3GB. I've got enough
optical disks to do this and the drive is an external MO. Is this
doable? The images will have to contend with up to 256MB of data and
must be fully writable to a new physical disk, including all boot
information.
My '040 Cube is running NeXTstep 3.3 with CAPer, so if I made
images I could easily move them on to my main Mac for storage. The
distribution disks in question have NS 0.9, 1.0, 1.0a, 2.0, 2.1, and
3.0, as well as a non-bootable disk of 3.2. They've been verified as
readable and still containing the OS (on my '040 Cube after being
locked). Due to the unknown quality of the OD in my '030 Cube I really
don't want to try and boot one on it and I'd like to get them to another
media before I lose the ability to
read them altogether.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks
Jeff
6:40 a.m.
New subject: Unix disk images and archiving
Jeff, after I emailed you my answer last night, I was
thinking that
you should be able to just "dd" the images to a files:
Thanks...I wasn't sure if dd would handle it or not. My plan
is to dump the disk to images, copy them over Appletalk to my G3 for
storage and burn them to CD. I'll also try to dump the image back to
disk using the Pinnacle, one disk image per side.
Jeff
--
Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File
http://www.cchaven.com
http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757
7:59 a.m.
New subject: Unix disk images and archiving
I've been using dd on Solaris to make images, don't know why I didn't
think about that last night, brainfart maybe. Let me know how
connecting the PM 1.3gb goes. Getting the Jaz up was "fun". I've passed
on several PM 1.3gb drives before, if it works, it might be fun getting
one next time. I have just installed a Pinnacle Micro CDR drive on my
#1 cube. I'm going to try burning a few "coasters" on the cube. I'll
let you know how it goes.
James
Jeff Hellige wrote:
Jeff, after I
emailed you my answer last night, I was thinking that
you should be able to just "dd" the images to a files:
Thanks...I wasn't sure if dd would handle it or not. My plan is to
dump the disk to images, copy them over Appletalk to my G3 for storage
and burn them to CD. I'll also try to dump the image back to disk using
the Pinnacle, one disk image per side.
Jeff
4:33 p.m.
New subject: Unix disk images and archiving
Let me know how connecting the PM 1.3gb goes. Getting
the Jaz up
was "fun". I've passed on several PM 1.3gb drives before, if it
works, it might be fun getting one next time. I have just installed
a Pinnacle Micro CDR drive on my #1 cube. I'm going to try burning
a few "coasters" on the cube. I'll let you know how it goes.
I plugged the Pinnacle Sierra up to the Cube and it mounted
both DOS and Mac formatted disk without a problem and I was able to
read files and such off of them easily. So far attampts at
initializing them have failed though, even using 'disk -i /dev/rsd1a'
to try to initialize the raw device. The system retrieves all of the
info but errors out, making the disk unreadable. All of my 3M disks
are 512bytes/sector vice 1024...could this be a problem for NeXTstep?
I didn't have to modify the disktab file for it to recognize the
drive/media.
Jeff
--
Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File
http://www.cchaven.com
http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757
5:24 p.m.
New subject: Unix disk images and archiving
I think you will have to write a disktab entry for the MO drive. I had
to add one for the Jaz. NS3.3 is pretty good at determining disk
geometry if the drive supports the sense command. Since PM bit the
dust, I'm not sure if there is much documentation out there about the MO
drive. Also keep in mind that the NeXT cube SCSI implementation is
pretty primitive.
Ok, I looked on the Pinnacle Micro site. It's up intermittently these
days. They went bankrupt in 2000. On the PM site at :
http://www.pinnaclemicro.com/faq/unix.htm it states that NeXT supports
both 512 and 1024 sector formats, so I don't think that that's the
problem. Also on the Pinnacle Micro site at:
http://www.pinnaclemicro.com/guides.htm#unixmo there wasn't a mention of
NeXT in the Unix pages.
One question, does the MO drive show up in the Workspace browser when
you insert a disk? I can't format a Jaz cart from the command prompt
with disk, but I can by selecting it in the GUi and then selecting Disk
Initialize....I don't know why.
If none of this makes sense, forgive me. I had a root canal and 8
fillings done this afternoon and I'm still a little punchy.
James
Jeff Hellige wrote:
Let me know how connecting the PM 1.3gb goes.
Getting the Jaz up
was "fun". I've passed on several PM 1.3gb drives before, if it
works, it might be fun getting one next time. I have just installed
a Pinnacle Micro CDR drive on my #1 cube. I'm going to try burning
a few "coasters" on the cube. I'll let you know how it goes.
I plugged the Pinnacle Sierra up to the Cube and it mounted
both DOS and Mac formatted disk without a problem and I was able to
read files and such off of them easily. So far attampts at
initializing them have failed though, even using 'disk -i /dev/rsd1a'
to try to initialize the raw device. The system retrieves all of the
info but errors out, making the disk unreadable. All of my 3M disks
are 512bytes/sector vice 1024...could this be a problem for NeXTstep?
I didn't have to modify the disktab file for it to recognize the
drive/media.
Jeff
--
Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File
http://www.cchaven.com
http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757
11:12 p.m.
New subject: Unix disk images and archiving
I think you will have to write a disktab entry for the
MO drive. I had
to add one for the Jaz. NS3.3 is pretty good at determining disk
geometry if the drive supports the sense command. Since PM bit the
dust, I'm not sure if there is much documentation out there about the MO
drive. Also keep in mind that the NeXT cube SCSI implementation is
pretty primitive.
Thanks James...I'll try the disktab from your other message.
One question, does the MO drive show up in the
Workspace browser when
you insert a disk? I can't format a Jaz cart from the command prompt
with disk, but I can by selecting it in the GUi and then selecting Disk
Initialize....I don't know why.
Yes, the DOS and Mac formatted disks mount automatically when
the disks are inserted and on one it doesn't recognize it asks if I
want to initialize. It fails initialization from the Workspace just
as it did from the shell. I wasn't sure if NS supported
512bytes/sector or not on the MO.
I'll let you know how the disktab works.
--
Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File
http://www.cchaven.com
http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757
5:34 p.m.
New subject: Unix disk images and archiving
Jeff check this out:
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&threadm=32udil%2413l%40news.doit.…
It seems that they had to write a disktab entry
This is a quote:
I was unable to get the cartridges to format with
ty=removable_rw_optical but
they did work with ty=removable_rw_scsi. I haven't figured that out
yet. The
only problem with this is that they appear with an ugly SCSI icon
instead of
the nice optical icon on automount in the workspcae. I fixed this by
going
into /usr/lib/NextStep/Workspace.app/WM.app, renamed scsi.tiff to
OLDscsi.tiff
and openScsi.tiff to OLDopenScsi.tiff, and then copied optical.tiff and
openOptical.tiff to scsi.tiff and openScsi.tiff. So now autoMount disks
of
type removable_rw_scsi appear on the Workspace with the optical tiff.
I've tuned the disktab for space optimization instead of speed since we
primarily use our optical more like a WORM so there should be very
little
fragmentation.
The disktab works with the Workspace auto-initialize routines, except
that it
can't determine whether the cartridge is 512byte/sector or
1024byte/sector.
I've set our's up to auto-initialize properly for the 1024byte/sector
disks,
and require a command line format for 512byte/sector disks with:
disk -t PINNACLEOHD-1200 -i /dev/rsd1a
Add these line to /etc/disktab after the cannon OM entry
# Pinnacle Micro Sierra optical disk drive
# ECMA 512 byte/sector media
# Disktab generated by Jessica Hayden from SunOS /etc/format.dat entry
# and NextAnswers document 1533.
PINNACLEOHD-1200|Pinnacle Sierra 1.2GB OHD:\
:ty=removable_rw_scsi:nc#5359:nt#7:ns#31:ss#512:rm#3600:\
:fp#320:bp#256:ng#0:gs#0:ga#0:ao#0:\
:os=sdmach:z0#64:z1#192:ro=a:\
:pa#0:sa#1162903:ba#8192:fa#1024:ca#32:da#4096:ra#1:oa=space:\
:ia:ta=4.3BSD:aa:
# Pinnacle Micro Sierra optical disk drive
# ECMA 1024 byte/sector media
# Disktab generated by Kelley Wittmeyer & Jessica Hayden from
# an HPUX /etc/disktab entry and NextAnswers doc 1533
PINNACLEOHD-1300|Pinnacle Sierra 1.3GB OHD:\
:ty=removable_rw_scsi:nc#1171:nt#32:ns#17:ss#1024:rm#3600:\
:fp#160:bp#256:ng#0:gs#0:ga#0:ao#0:\
:os=sdmach:z0#32:z1#96:ro=a:\
:pa#0:sa#636608:ba#8192:fa#1024:ca#8:da#4096:ra#0:oa=space:\
:ia:ta=4.3BSD:aa:
2:13 p.m.
New subject: Unix disk images and archiving
I've started using dd to store an images on an internal ftp server. I
had an extra P3 and motherboard, so I set it up with 4 80gb hard
drives. Lots of room. I've started dumping all of the stuff that I've
downloaded over the past 10-15 years (back to the BBS days). Gets rid
of all of the clutter of floppy disks, CD, etc.
James
Jeff Hellige wrote:
Jeff, after I emailed you my answer last night, I
was thinking that
you should be able to just "dd" the images to a files:
Thanks...I wasn't sure if dd would handle it or not. My plan
is to dump the disk to images, copy them over Appletalk to my G3 for
storage and burn them to CD. I'll also try to dump the image back to
disk using the Pinnacle, one disk image per side.
Jeff
--
Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File
http://www.cchaven.com
http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757
11:28 a.m.
New subject: Unix disk images and archiving
Jeff, after I emailed you my answer last night, I was
thinking that
you should be able to just "dd" the images to a files:
dd if=/dev/<insert device here> of=/tmp/name-of-image-file.here
I create floppy images by:
dd if=/dev/rfd0b of=/tmp/3.3_Mot_Boot_Disk.floppyimage
Ok, I got dd sending output from the optical disk to an
external hard disk, called 'Connor', using the following:
dd if=/dev/od0a of=/Connor/NS32back
It creates a file called NS32back on the 'Connor' volume. I
did this because the internal drive is small in the '040 Cube. It
actually did it at a pretty good pace, though I couldn't hear the
reads from the optical disk so I ejected the optical disk and ran the
command again and if then asked me to insert it. What would the
appropriate command be to read the image file and copy back to
/dev/od0a?
Thanks
Jeff
--
Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File
http://www.cchaven.com
http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757
2:16 p.m.
New subject: Unix disk images and archiving
Judst reverse the commands:
dd if=/Connor/NS32back of=/dev/od0a
James
Jeff Hellige wrote:
Jeff, after I emailed you my answer last night, I
was thinking that
you should be able to just "dd" the images to a files:
dd if=/dev/<insert device here> of=/tmp/name-of-image-file.here
I create floppy images by:
dd if=/dev/rfd0b of=/tmp/3.3_Mot_Boot_Disk.floppyimage
Ok, I got dd sending output from the optical disk to an
external hard disk, called 'Connor', using the following:
dd if=/dev/od0a of=/Connor/NS32back
It creates a file called NS32back on the 'Connor' volume. I
did this because the internal drive is small in the '040 Cube. It
actually did it at a pretty good pace, though I couldn't hear the
reads from the optical disk so I ejected the optical disk and ran the
command again and if then asked me to insert it. What would the
appropriate command be to read the image file and copy back to
/dev/od0a?
Thanks
Jeff
--
Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File
http://www.cchaven.com
http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 
22 Mar
22 Mar
9:47 a.m.
New subject: Rockewell System 65
In digging around, I again ran across the Rockwell
System 65. A google
search didn't turn up any references except to a Forth system designed
to run on that system. Anyone know anything about this thing? Thanks.
There was a forth rom, and a book from Rockwell for Forth on the AIM65. I
still have the book, not sure on the rom.<doubt it>
2:16 p.m.
New subject: Rockewell System 65
In case it wasn't clear, this is not an AIM 65 but rather a Rockwell
System 65. It has a ziff socket on the front (28+ pins or so) along with
a couple of FH Floppy drives. I *think* I have the Forth Rom set for the
AIM65 but it has been quite a while since I've looked at that system.
Mike Ford wrote:
In digging around, I again ran across the Rockwell
System 65. A google
search didn't turn up any references except to a Forth system designed
to run on that system. Anyone know anything about this thing? Thanks.
There was a forth rom, and a book from Rockwell for Forth on the AIM65. I
still have the book, not sure on the rom.<doubt it> 
3:39 p.m.
New subject: Rockewell System 65
I have a complete set of manuals for it down in the shop someplace. I
will try and locate them next week. I looked it up in Haddock's book
and he calls it a KIM-1 compatible. A 1K and 4K model were available. In
production by April of 1979. Cost from $375 to $599 for unit in a case.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Marvin Johnston" <marvin(a)rain.org>
To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Friday, March 22, 2002 12:17 PM
Subject: Rockewell System 65
In digging around, I again ran across the Rockwell System 65. A google
search didn't turn up any references except to a Forth system designed
to run on that system. Anyone know anything about this thing? Thanks.
4:54 p.m.
New subject: Rockewell System 65
Thanks, I had not thought of checking that book. Unfortunately, the
Rockwell machine mentioned there is the AIM 65 (which this is most
definitely not.) I did another Google search using - +Rockwell +"System
65" -, and ended up with some results this time. A German site at
http://home.debitel.net/user/groener1/comp_058.htm#System 65 gives a
brief description. So far though, I haven't seen any pictures for it.
"John R. Keys Jr." wrote:
I have a complete set of manuals for it down in the shop someplace. I
will try and locate them next week. I looked it up in Haddock's book
and he calls it a KIM-1 compatible. A 1K and 4K model were available. In
production by April of 1979. Cost from $375 to $599 for unit in a case.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Marvin Johnston" <marvin(a)rain.org>
To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Friday, March 22, 2002 12:17 PM
Subject: Rockewell System 65
>
> In digging around, I again ran across the Rockwell System 65. A google
> search didn't turn up any references except to a Forth system designed
> to run on that system. Anyone know anything about this thing? Thanks.
>
3:49 p.m.
New subject: Follow-up was Re: Rockewell System 65
Also Haddock stated that some models had 4K assembler/editor in ROM and
8K Basic in ROM.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Marvin Johnston" <marvin(a)rain.org>
To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Friday, March 22, 2002 12:17 PM
Subject: Rockewell System 65
In digging around, I again ran across the Rockwell System 65. A google
search didn't turn up any references except to a Forth system designed
to run on that system. Anyone know anything about this thing? Thanks.
4:22 p.m.
New subject: Follow-up was Re: Rockewell System 65
The System65 I had in front of me much of '85-'86 had a couple of floppies
built into the front of the box and used a terminal-like console, though I
doubt it was a terminal.
I think the tools were on diskette, and not in ROM. The AIM BASIC, FORTH, and
ASSEMBLER, were in ROM, though.
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: "John R. Keys Jr." <jrkeys(a)concentric.net>
To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Friday, March 22, 2002 7:49 PM
Subject: Follow-up was Re: Rockewell System 65
Also Haddock stated that some models had 4K
assembler/editor in ROM and
8K Basic in ROM.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Marvin Johnston" <marvin(a)rain.org>
To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Friday, March 22, 2002 12:17 PM
Subject: Rockewell System 65
In digging around, I again ran across the Rockwell System 65. A google
search didn't turn up any references except to a Forth system designed
to run on that system. Anyone know anything about this thing? Thanks.
8155
days inactive
8160
days old
21 comments
9 participants
participants (9)
-
edick＠idcomm.com -
Hans.Franke＠mch20.sbs.de -
jhellige＠earthlink.net -
jrice＠texoma.net -
jrkeys＠concentric.net -
marvin＠rain.org -
mbg＠TheWorld.com -
mikeford＠socal.rr.com -
pechter＠bg-tc-ppp464.monmouth.com