11 Apr
1999
11 Apr
'99
2:20 p.m.
I don't think Commodore was a factor in this aspect of the process. The
Commodore machines weren't "accessible" enough, in that there was no really
convenient way to install the additional hardware people wanted, so nobody
(well, almost) built it.
They couldn't afford a market clash with the Apple. They had a safe market
in Europe, which didn't seem to suffer as badly from the video-toy-looking
Apple as their U.S. market did. By the time all the goodies were installed,
the Apple became a formidable presence to be reckoned with by nearly any
computer maker. The Apples were unduly costly, but they exhibited an
unprecedented breadth of applications with more variety of plug-in
peripherals than even an S-100 box offered.
Dick
-----Original Message-----
From: Cameron Kaiser <ckaiser(a)oa.ptloma.edu>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Sunday, April 11, 1999 3:14 PM
Subject: Re: stepping machanism of Apple Disk ][ drive (was Re: Heatkit 51/4
floppies)
::I agree with you there. The Zilog boys had the CP/M
crowd to maintain
the
::low-end of their development system market, so nobody
could complain it
was
::too expensive to develop. The MOS-Technology folks
had merely to point
at
::the Apple to accomplish the same thing. Meanwhile,
Motorola was making a
Commodore, too (well, they did own MOS Technology, after all).
--
-------------------------- personal page:
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Bradley
11 Apr
11 Apr
2:52 p.m.
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12 Apr
12 Apr
10:20 p.m.
On Sun, 11 Apr 1999, Cameron Kaiser wrote:
::I don't think Commodore was a factor in this
aspect of the process. The
::Commodore machines weren't "accessible" enough, in that there was no
really
::convenient way to install the additional hardware people wanted, so nobody
::(well, almost) built it.
I disagree very strongly with that statement (in a nice way :-). Apples
definitely had a nice selection of hardware add-ons, but there were also
C64 80-column cards (Batteries Included made some),
I have one of those. Very nice! I haven't played with it much, but it
has BASIC 4.0 in ROM, too. The characters are quite readable even on
the television. It's a B.I.-80, and a friend found it in an
Ontario junk shop. The manuals are stamped:
DISCARD FROM
Central Technical School
LIBRARY
Toronto Board of Education
I don't know what the heck kind of library keeps C64 80-column cards on
their shelves, though. ;)
I also have a combination 80-column display adapter and CP/M cartridge for
the C64, which I don't have the power supply or software for.
Of course, there were also 80-column cards for the VIC-20, and of course
many PET models were built with 80 column displays...
hard drives (first the Lt. Kernal, then the CMD
series),
What period are we talking about? You seem to limit yourself to the C64.
Commodore made hard drives for the PET series. The CBM D9060 and
D9090 come to mind.
RAM expansions (first the Commodore REUs and then
BBGRAM, RAMLink, geoRAM),
VIC-1210, VIC-1111, many third party VIC RAM expanders, some with more
than 64K on board...
modems (first Commodore VICMODEMS and 1600 series,
then HesModem, Mighty Mo,
etc.),
There were 300bps IEEE-488 modems in the PET era.
printer interfaces (Cardco, Xetec; even some
Centronics ones)
I have a printer interface for my PET 2001 that works just dandy with my
HP LaserJet 4L.
and accelerators (TurboMaster, Flash-8 and SuperCPU).
Damn! None of those for VIC or PET, that I'm aware of. :)
Many compared quite favourably with the Apple's
assortment.
This may be true, but the Apple's slot bus was a darn nice thing. Putting
cards inside the case, without need of an external slot board, and without
need for multitudes of 'wall-wart' power supplies is definitely a plus in
the Apple's favour, too.
You had to be a lot more careful about peripheral and expansion selection
with Commodore's machines.
Moreover, the Commodore hardware has always been
superbly documented --
witness the Programmer's Reference Guides on all the major 8-bit Commodores
I haven't seen the official PET Programmer's Reference Guide. Was there
one?
The VIC's Programmer's Reference Guide is excellent, BTW.
<snip>
But they didn't market-clash with the Apple except
possibly in the education
market, which Apple soundly won
I disagree with this. This is highly, highly regional. I think Apple
only won in the US. By all indications, Commodore won in Ontario and much
of the rest of Canada. I think Acorn won in the UK. Where I live,
though, there didn't seem to be a "winner" until the PC clone era. When I
was starting high school, labs were filled with PETs, TRS-80s, Ataris...
but I rarely saw Apples. Too expensive for schools.
By the time I got to CEGEP (not sure what you'd call that in the rest of
the world), the PC had won. But the CEGEP I attended had labs and labs
full of... Commodore PCs. (Aiiiiiiii!)
(depending on whom you talk to, this is either
attributed to Apple's
aggressiveness or Commodore's passivity). Apple may have been trying for
the home market at one stage, but they never made any offerings that could
be explicitly marked "home computer".
I saw a lot of Apples in homes, though. Of course, I lived in an affluent
neighbourhood where Apples had snob value. Everyone else had Commodores.
Actually, a lot of those "Apples" weren't. Apple clones were at least, if
not more, common than the genuine article.
Apple clones were affordable for many people. Apples weren't
affordable for most people. VICs and C64s were affordable for most
people. And TI-99s were affordable even for bums on the street, which is
probably why I keep running across the main units and never any
peripherals, software, books, etc. The local supermarket used to give
them away as prizes.
<more snipppage>
--
-------------------------- personal page: http://calvin.ptloma.edu/~spectre/ --
Cameron Kaiser Database Programmer/Administrative Computing
Point Loma Nazarene University Fax: +1 619 849 2581
ckaiser(a)ptloma.edu Phone: +1 619 849 2539
-- A dean is to faculty as a hydrant is to a dog. -- Alfred Kahn --------------
--
Doug Spence
ds_spenc(a)alcor.concordia.ca
http://alcor.concordia.ca/~ds_spenc/
9215
days inactive
9217
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