11 Dec
2008
11 Dec
'08
2:20 a.m.
I see one response saying that they predated the electronic stored program computer by
about 40 years. Perhaps, I wasn't around that early.
But I recall a GE installation at a university of the late 1950's that had the raised
floor that became standard in the 1960's. As were a couple of IBM 7xxx systems.
OTOH, a 650 I knew in 1957 was on concrete, as was a 1401 as late as 1967.
Cabling was an issue, cooling the other. The 1401 was in a well-air conditioned room, and
the cabling was OVERHEAD!! Damn cheaper than raised floor. Until the large systems of the
middle 1960's required cabling be out of the way, it was as much a matter of
convenience as anything else - you need to be able to truck trays of cards, paper, tapes
in and out, and cables made that a problem.
I'd be interested in the turn of the 20th-century-raised floors. Must make a note to
look that up.
Vern
--- On Tue, 12/9/08, William Donzelli <wdonzelli at gmail.com> wrote:
From: William Donzelli <wdonzelli at gmail.com>
Subject: Raised floors
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at
classiccmp.org>
Date: Tuesday, December 9, 2008, 6:08 PM
Here is an aspect of computer history not yet touched - when
did the
industry standardize on the 2 x 2 raised floor? Certainly
they were
common in the 1960s, but were they standard in the 1950s?
--
Will
11 Dec
11 Dec
8:44 a.m.
Vernon Wright wrote:
Cabling was an issue, cooling the other. The 1401 was
in a well-air
conditioned room, and the cabling was OVERHEAD!! Damn cheaper than raised
floor.
That was my first thought upon reading this thread - how come raised floors
even came about? Message systems based on air-filled tubes seem to have always
been overhead, and of course lots of stores still pass power and data down to
terminals from above; if in a room with a false ceiling it seems a natural
thing to take advantage of. Maybe the sheer weight of the cabling needed for
a mainframe environment was just too much to justify running it overhead?
8:58 a.m.
On Thu, 11 Dec 2008, Jules Richardson wrote:
Maybe the sheer weight of the cabling needed for a
mainframe environment
was just too much to justify running it overhead?
The SAGE installations used overhead wiring in cable trays. They
didn't come much bigger than that.
Mike Loewen mloewen at cpumagic.scol.pa.us
Old Technology http://sturgeon.css.psu.edu/~mloewen/Oldtech/
11:21 a.m.
On Thu, 11 Dec 2008 07:44:11 -0600, Jules Richardson wrote:
Vernon Wright wrote:
> Cabling was an issue, cooling the other. The 1401 was in a well-air
> conditioned room, and the cabling was OVERHEAD!! Damn cheaper than raised
> floor.
That was my first thought upon reading this thread -
how come raised floors
even came about? Message systems based on air-filled tubes seem to have always
been overhead, and of course lots of stores still pass power and data down to
terminals from above; if in a room with a false ceiling it seems a natural
thing to take advantage of. Maybe the sheer weight of the cabling needed for
a mainframe environment was just too much to justify running it overhead?
Cooling!
cold air is plumbed through the floors to where it is needed.
Hot air rises and is easily collected and recycled.
The fact that one could hide the cabeling easily under the floor was just a bennie :-)
Glass walls became popular with management, as did windowless concrete bunker like
basements.
Not sure when it began but there is little question that it became the standard by the mid
60's.
Back under my rock ...
The other Bob
1:29 p.m.
No argument about the cooling - except that until the late 60's the air WASN'T run
through the floor - in the installations I recall.
And recall that by the time of the S/360 class of computers cables between the various
units, and the power cables, could be 3+" in diameter. You couldn't run an
efficient operation trucking card trays, disk cake dishes, tapes, and paper over those
cables (which had to be of minimum possible length).
Still want to know about those early 20th century raised floors. A Hollerith tab machine
on a raised floor? Maybe....
Vern
--- On Thu, 12/11/08, Bob Bradlee <caveguy at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
From: Bob Bradlee <caveguy at sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Raised floors
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at
classiccmp.org>
Date: Thursday, December 11, 2008, 8:21 AM
On Thu, 11 Dec 2008 07:44:11 -0600, Jules Richardson wrote:
Vernon Wright wrote:
> Cabling was an issue, cooling the other. The 1401
was in a well-air
> conditioned room, and the cabling was
OVERHEAD!!
Damn cheaper than raised
> floor.
That was my first thought upon reading this thread
-
how come raised floors
even came about? Message systems based on
air-filled
tubes seem to have always
been overhead, and of course lots of stores still
pass
power and data down to
terminals from above; if in a room with a false
ceiling
it seems a natural
thing to take advantage of. Maybe the sheer
weight of
the cabling needed for
a mainframe environment was just too much to
justify
running it overhead?
Cooling!
cold air is plumbed through the floors to where it is
needed.
Hot air rises and is easily collected and recycled.
The fact that one could hide the cabeling easily under the
floor was just a bennie :-)
Glass walls became popular with management, as did
windowless concrete bunker like basements.
Not sure when it began but there is little question that it
became the standard by the mid 60's.
Back under my rock ...
The other Bob 
1:46 p.m.
While ceiling heights could vary all over the place (the machine
floor at CDC Sunnyvale had very high ceilings--perhaps 16 ft., which
made for playing ring-toss with tape write-enable rings onto the
lighting fixtures very challenging--the distance between a floor and
the equipment standing on it is pretty much a known distance--and
probably the shortest practical path.
Cheers,
Chuck
2:20 p.m.
Vernon Wright wrote:
Still want to know about those early 20th century
raised floors. A
Hollerith tab machine on a raised floor? Maybe....
Hmm, I'll see if I can find out what Bletchley Park did in wartime - aside
from several Colossus machines, there was a significant
teleprinter and
punched-card presence, too.
I seem to remember that the main floors in H Block (now housing the computer
museum, and where - IIRC - 4 Colossus machines used to live) are solid
concrete with a central channel for wiring and power, but I don't know if this
channel was put in after the war or when the building was put up.
(Of course that's all 1940s, so not significantly before the 1950/60 dates
already being talked about - and punched-card equipment had existed for a long
time by then)
cheers
Jules
12 Dec
12 Dec
9:55 a.m.
Jules Richardson wrote:
Vernon Wright wrote:
OK... Colossus machines were all wired standalone, with overhead rack runs to
nearby power cabinets and between components. The Tunny machines had a common
power supply, but were sited such that cabling was run around the machine room
walls. Teleprinters I'm told were wired according to GPO convention of the
time - i.e. overhead runs.
I'm still not sure about the punched card equipment - I'm struggling to think
who the best person is to ask about that, though.
Anyway, all of this doesn't further the raised floor discussion much, except
to say that things could be done without raised floors (and given the way that
computing evolved in the UK, if GPO convention was to wire overhead then
doubtless this was carried over into a lot of computer installations; the US
and other countries may have taken a much different route though, with raised
floors adopted much earlier)
(which raises an incidental question; were Strowger exchanges in non-UK
countries typically wired overhead or below-floor?)
cheers
Jules
Still want to know about those early 20th century
raised floors. A
Hollerith tab machine on a raised floor? Maybe....
Hmm, I'll see if I can find out what Bletchley Park did in wartime -
aside from several Colossus machines, there was a significant
teleprinter and punched-card presence, too. 
11:10 a.m.
Anyway, all of this doesn't further the raised
floor discussion much,
except to say that things could be done without raised floors (and given
the way that computing evolved in the UK, if GPO convention was to wire
overhead then doubtless this was carried over into a lot of computer
installations; the US and other countries may have taken a much
different route though, with raised floors adopted much earlier)
(which raises an incidental question; were Strowger
exchanges in non-UK
countries typically wired overhead or below-floor?)
A friend who has spent a lot of time working in US COs says:
The only below-floor wiring I've *ever* seen in a CO was in the 7th
floor computer room, which was managed by the company from whom Bell
bought the computer. Everything else is overhead, always always
always.
De
14 Dec
14 Dec
5:16 p.m.
On Dec 12, 2008, at 11:10 AM, Dennis Boone wrote:
My old employer's facility in Laurel, MD was in a building that
formerly housed a Bell CO. There were channels in the floor with
round holes every few feet (presumably they used fish tape to get
stuff around) and the facility's wiring was all done through there.
Just FYI.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire
Port Charlotte, FL
Anyway, all of
this doesn't further the raised floor discussion much,
except to say that things could be done without raised floors (and
given
the way that computing evolved in the UK, if GPO convention was to
wire
overhead then doubtless this was carried over into a lot of computer
installations; the US and other countries may have taken a much
different route though, with raised floors adopted much earlier)
(which raises an incidental question; were
Strowger exchanges in
non-UK
countries typically wired overhead or below-floor?)
A friend who has spent a lot of time working in US COs says:
The only below-floor wiring I've *ever* seen in a CO was in the
7th
floor computer room, which was managed by the company from whom
Bell
bought the computer. Everything else is overhead, always always
always. 
12 Dec
12 Dec
2:12 p.m.
On Friday 12 December 2008, Jules Richardson wrote:
Anyway, all of this doesn't further the raised
floor discussion much,
except to say that things could be done without raised floors (and
given the way that computing evolved in the UK, if GPO convention was
to wire overhead then doubtless this was carried over into a lot of
computer installations; the US and other countries may have taken a
much different route though, with raised floors adopted much
earlier)
After having spend several years working in a datacenter with a raised
floor, I have to say that I really hate raised-floors, and prefer
overhead wiring. Keeping the wiring overhead makes it visible, which
makes it more necessary to keep it neat and tidy (and remove old wiring
which is no longer used).
Raised floors encourage people to make messes out of wiring because it's
all hidden. (Also, not having a raised floor provides less opportunity
for parts and tools to find the holes in the floor to fall through when
you drop them.)
Besides, why hide the wiring? You should proudly display all parts of
the computer system! :)
Pat
--
Purdue University Research Computing --- http://www.rcac.purdue.edu/
The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org
2:31 p.m.
On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 1:12 PM, Patrick Finnegan
<pat at computer-refuge.org> wrote:
all hidden. (Also, not having a raised floor provides
less opportunity
for parts and tools to find the holes in the floor to fall through when
you drop them.)
You can't hide beer in an overhead rack, nor keep it cool there.
2:32 p.m.
On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 1:12 PM, Patrick Finnegan
<pat at computer-refuge.org> wrote:
all hidden. (Also, not having a raised floor provides
less opportunity
for parts and tools to find the holes in the floor to fall through when
you drop them.)
You can't hide beer in an overhead rack, nor keep it cool there.
3:10 p.m.
CEO's and such, taking visitors to their million-dollar computer installations, found
3" cables snaking down from the ceiling 'unsightly'; I can recall several
managements who would send a memo instructing that the computer room be made extra-tidy
(no boxes of paper, cards, all the tapes and disks in their racks) for a coming visit.
I really found the raised floor to be quite valuable. There were no holes (except later
when A/C was pushed through and small vents were put in), cables were accessible by
pulling up a section or two, and as I said, you didn't have to hassle with trucking
data and supplies over big cables.
Vern
--- On Fri, 12/12/08, Patrick Finnegan <pat at computer-refuge.org> wrote:
From: Patrick Finnegan <pat at
computer-refuge.org>
Subject: Re: Raised floors
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at
classiccmp.org>
Date: Friday, December 12, 2008, 11:12 AM
On Friday 12 December 2008, Jules Richardson wrote:
Anyway, all of this doesn't further the
raised
floor discussion much,
except to say that things could be done without
raised
floors (and
given the way that computing evolved in the UK,
if GPO
convention was
to wire overhead then doubtless this was carried
over
into a lot of
computer installations; the US and other
countries may
have taken a
much different route though, with raised floors
adopted much
earlier)
After having spend several years working in a datacenter
with a raised
floor, I have to say that I really hate raised-floors, and
prefer
overhead wiring. Keeping the wiring overhead makes it
visible, which
makes it more necessary to keep it neat and tidy (and
remove old wiring
which is no longer used).
Raised floors encourage people to make messes out of wiring
because it's
all hidden. (Also, not having a raised floor provides less
opportunity
for parts and tools to find the holes in the floor to fall
through when
you drop them.)
Besides, why hide the wiring? You should proudly display
all parts of
the computer system! :)
Pat
--
Purdue University Research Computing ---
http://www.rcac.purdue.edu/
The Computer Refuge ---
http://computer-refuge.org
3:21 p.m.
On 12 Dec 2008 at 12:10, Vernon Wright wrote:
CEO's and such, taking visitors to their
million-dollar computer
installations, found 3" cables snaking down from the ceiling
'unsightly'; I can recall several managements who would send a memo
instructing that the computer room be made extra-tidy (no boxes of
paper, cards, all the tapes and disks in their racks) for a coming
visit.
Besides, raised floors keeps the rats out of sight... Nothing more
upsetting than seeing rodents making use of overhead cable runs as
elevated freeways.
Cheers,
Chuck
4:51 p.m.
On Fri, 12 Dec 2008, Chuck Guzis wrote:
On 12 Dec 2008 at 12:10, Vernon Wright wrote:
Building on that fact, overhead rat^H^H^Hcable runs provide entertainment
during long sessions of waiting for something to finish, provided you
remembered to bring in your bb gun.
--
David Griffith
dgriffi at cs.csubak.edu
A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail?
CEO's and such, taking visitors to their
million-dollar computer
installations, found 3" cables snaking down from the ceiling
'unsightly'; I can recall several managements who would send a memo
instructing that the computer room be made extra-tidy (no boxes of
paper, cards, all the tapes and disks in their racks) for a coming
visit.
Besides, raised floors keeps the rats out of sight... Nothing more
upsetting than seeing rodents making use of overhead cable runs as
elevated freeways. 
13 Dec
13 Dec
4:27 a.m.
Fred Cisin wrote:
Ketamine and gaffa tape.
Gordon
On 12 Dec 2008
at 12:10, Vernon Wright wrote:
> CEO's and such, . . .
On Fri, 12 Dec 2008, Chuck Guzis wrote:
Besides, raised floors keeps the rats out of
sight...
How do you get the CEO's and such to stay under those floors?
14 Dec
14 Dec
2:20 p.m.
Wish we could have kept the CEO's under the floors!
:)
Vern
--- On Fri, 12/12/08, Chuck Guzis <cclist at sydex.com> wrote:
From: Chuck Guzis <cclist at sydex.com>
Subject: Re: Raised floors
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at
classiccmp.org>
Date: Friday, December 12, 2008, 12:21 PM
On 12 Dec 2008 at 12:10, Vernon Wright wrote:
CEO's and such, taking visitors to their
million-dollar computer
installations, found 3" cables snaking down
from
the ceiling
'unsightly'; I can recall several
managements
who would send a memo
instructing that the computer room be made
extra-tidy
(no boxes of
paper, cards, all the tapes and disks in their
racks)
for a coming
visit.
Besides, raised floors keeps the rats out of sight...
Nothing more
upsetting than seeing rodents making use of overhead cable
runs as
elevated freeways.
Cheers,
Chuck 
11 Dec
11 Dec
4:28 p.m.
Still want to know about those early 20th century
raised floors. A Hollerith tab machine on a raised floor? Maybe....
They were used in the control rooms of power stations, and later
(1930s) found much use in the fire control and gyrocompass spaces on
larger warships.
--
Will
4:48 p.m.
William Donzelli wrote:
Interesting - I've only been in one power station of that sort of era (built
1925 I think), and it was all under-floor trunking (i.e. the floors were
solid, with covered channels carved for the cablework).
Still want to
know about those early 20th century raised floors. A Hollerith tab machine on a raised
floor? Maybe....
They were used in the control rooms of power stations, and later
(1930s)
12 Dec
12 Dec
3 p.m.
Interesting, Will. I'll put it onto my list of things to find a picture of.
Thanks.
Vern
--- On Thu, 12/11/08, William Donzelli <wdonzelli at gmail.com> wrote:
From: William Donzelli <wdonzelli at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Raised floors
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at
classiccmp.org>
Date: Thursday, December 11, 2008, 1:28 PM
Still want to know about those early 20th
century
raised floors. A Hollerith tab machine on a raised floor?
Maybe....
They were used in the control rooms of power stations, and
later
(1930s) found much use in the fire control and gyrocompass
spaces on
larger warships.
--
Will 
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days inactive
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22 comments
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bfranchuk＠jetnet.ab.ca -
caveguy＠sbcglobal.net -
cclist＠sydex.com -
cisin＠xenosoft.com -
dgriffi＠cs.csubak.edu -
drb＠msu.edu -
gordonjcp＠gjcp.net -
jules.richardson99＠gmail.com -
mcguire＠neurotica.com -
mloewen＠cpumagic.scol.pa.us -
pat＠computer-refuge.org -
silent700＠gmail.com -
vern4wright＠yahoo.com -
wdonzelli＠gmail.com