On 12/11/2012 10:58 AM, Adrian Stoness wrote: You know, I've had my work criticized as being sloppy, creating rat's nests with 30 AWG Kynar-covered wire, but I've never heard of it referred to as "wire raping". --Chuck

It's WRAPPING, not RAPING. RAPING refers to the act of engaging in RAPE. rat's

I assume that very few on this list engage in non-consensual sex with wire.

On Tuesday (12/11/2012 at 11:45AM -0800), Chuck Guzis wrote: You never know what wire stripping can lead to... -- Chris Elmquist

Don't sweat it man, they're ragging on your spelling again. All in good fun. -Dave On 12/11/2012 06:17 PM, Adrian Stoness wrote: -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA

On Tue, 11 Dec 2012, Adrian Stoness wrote: YES. The word that you wanted in your original post was "WRAPPING", not "RAPING", which has other connotations. -- Fred Cisin cisin at xenosoft.com XenoSoft http://www.xenosoft.com PO Box 1236 (510) 558-9366 Berkeley, CA 94701-1236

On Tue, 11 Dec 2012, Adrian Stoness wrote: If you ask so, then yes: orthography and grammar ;-) Christian

On Dec 12, 2012, at 5:07, Adrian Stoness <tdk.knight at gmail.com> wrote: Left brain, right brain. Most of the better writers I know have a hard time with grammar and spelling. I'm an ideal editor, because I pick up on those errors like crazy, but my creative output is boring and uninspired. It takes all types. I tend to hold off on criticizing typos on the Internet, since it doesn't really matter as long as I can understand it, but sometimes an error (e.g., wrapping misspelled as raping) provides a pretty juicy target. Like Dave said, it's all in good fun. I once sent an email where I said I was "foiled again by those meddling kids!", but it turned out I left out the F on foiled. It... changed the implication somewhat. - Dave

not being able to see stuff does not help... literally there can be a letter missing or whole words missing or extra words witch happens.. and i can't see it till hrs latter when someone complains leaving me huh? then wanting to craw into a whole and die....... all my school years when i asked for help i was told no ur to smart your lazy your lieing shut up go in the hall On Wed, Dec 12, 2012 at 12:24 PM, Jochen Kunz <jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de>wrote:

spellchecker gave me lazybones shrugs On Wed, Dec 12, 2012 at 12:51 PM, David Riley <fraveydank at gmail.com> wrote:

On Wed, 12 Dec 2012, Jochen Kunz wrote: "lazy" and "laziness" "pun"? All not a problem, but "d,fv;sdmfv"? A lot of us have a bit of lysdexia. I don't ridicule spellinq erorrs, since I make more than anybody else. But, sometimes, the unintended meaning is so funny or so outrageous that it has to be responded to.

On Wed, Dec 12, 2012 at 12:57 PM, Chuck Guzis <cclist at sydex.com> wrote: lost

Am 12.12.2012 10:58, schrieb Christian Corti: Oh... I read it and took it for a joke I didn't know before.... ;-) Let's do some wire rape! Ph --

On Tue, Dec 11, 2012 at 02:55:38PM -0500, David Riley wrote: Not as a pin-compatible part for repair of existing boards, no. If that's what you're going for, that's a great idea! An 8646A clone circuit on a tiny daughterboard might be cool too (for the KS10/VAX crowd). But I've got first-cut PCBs stuffed (and awaiting firmware) for a couple of projects which need to talk to DEC busses but don't need the DS8641N pinout: - Unibus battery-backed RAM and clock/cal board, (for my own use -- I know it's trivial but my main 11/34a's MS11Ls have gotten super flaky and I always wanted a TOY clock). This is a dual-height board, 3" tall, which fits in A/B of a MUD slot. Embarrassingly, it has a CPU, just to save square inches, but now that it's there, doing a KDJ11E-compatible TOY clock becomes easy, and doing config through an RS232 port is easy too so there are no jumpers. - Unibus universal disk controller (will be a D Bit product if successful). First prototype is a 6"x6" board with ribbon cables for a PCI/Unibus adapter (without the M9014-like Unibus paddle card) and an M9302-like terminator daughterboard with female Bergs on the back, so I can debug the firmware using E11 w/o hauling a big noisy BA11K into my little office. If I get this working, the next rev will be a quad SPC. SATA/USB/SD, with an 18-bit data path (obviously!). Anyway for these I'm seeing if I can get away with receiving the bus using 74LVC240s (etc.) and transmitting using a gazillion 2N7002PWs with 100 ohms in series with the gate (hoping that plus the gate capacitance will get the slew rate into a good neighborhood). Technically none of this is OK but I'm hoping in practice it works. Once the firmware's taking shape, a scope will tell all... Yours sounds better than mine, so, nope! Probably just as well to do it with loose parts though -- you don't want to get dependent on *another* oddball chip that'll be rare five years from now. John Wilson D Bit

On Dec 11, 2012, at 8:45 PM, John Wilson wrote: Now you got me thinking about it. :-) The 8646A (assuming it doesn't differ significantly from the 8646 described in the KS10 manual) is too complex for implementation using SSI bits (2x parity gen, latch and flip-flop are a lot to stuff into one little board). But... Looks like this can be done with a tiny CPLD doing the latching, parity and enables; Xilinx has a 32-macrocell CPLD for just over a buck in quantity that fits in a 5x5mm QFN package. I'm assuming I can fit a 5mm QFN between the pins in a 300-mil carrier board, but I haven't actually tested that in layout. There's a handy little LDO available on the market (also for a buck in 1k qty) that does 3.3v, 1.8v and 1.5v in one 3x3mm QFN package, which gives us the I/O voltage, CPLD VCCint and the comparator reference voltage all in one tiny package. It's definitely the sort of thing that could disappear, in which case there's probably space for separate regulators (and the comparator reference doesn't strictly need a regulator, a simple potential divider would do, but as long as it's there, might as well...). If it all fits, it can be made in 1k quantities for just under $5 each (including the PCB and pins, not including assembly, not factoring in necessary parts overages for attrition). Selling the boards as a kit with the QFNs preattached and the CPLD pre-programmed seems like a valid option, though both fully-assembled boards and bare boards are workable for folks of differing soldering abilities and financial persuasions. So, here's the question. Is there enough demand to make a 1k quantity of this? I don't think a smaller volume is really going to be cost-effective. Building in 100 qty drives the PCB cost up from $0.69 to $4.43, and the per-part price goes up as well (not by as much); it would probably at least double the price per unit. Still, $10 each might not be bad for a replacement for a part that no longer exists, and it's a lot easier to raise a thousand dollars than five thousand. :-) I also haven't gone to the trouble of trying to fit this thing all on one board, so it may be infeasible with the specified load of parts or number of layers. I'm cautiously optimistic, though. Qty Part No Description Unit Total --------------------------------------------------------------- 1 XC2C32A-6QFG CPLD, 32 macrocell 1.07730 1.07730 1 AS1355-BQFT-WDG LDO, 3.3v/1.8v/1.5v out .54194 .54194 2 74LVC04-PWR Hex inverters, for 5v in .10725 .21450 1 MAX9108 Quad high speed comparator 1.81050 1.81050 2 2N7002DW Dual FET .06300 .12600 10 CAP-105 100nF ceramic cap .00462 .04620 2 M20-9991046 10-pin headers .12320 .24640 1 PCB Carrier board .69000 .69000 =============================================================== Total: 4.75284