21 May
2016
21 May
'16
11:29 a.m.
Hi
Further to my posts this morning I have one last hurdle to jump.
1. I have a VAX with a TK70 attached and a TQK70 controller.
2. The tape drive works just fine.
3. Also on the VAX I have the correct tape (.TAP) image file for a
RSTS/E V10 install tape.
4. I would like to copy the .tap file to the tape so as to end up with a
bootable install tape.
5. I then power down the VAX and move the controller to an 11/83. (The
drive is external with its own PSU)
6. Boot the install tape and go from there.
So suggestions please as to how to do 4.
Rod Smallwood
21 May
21 May
11:56 a.m.
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Rod
Smallwood
Sent: 21 May 2016 19:29
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Subject: The RSTS riddle.
Hi
Further to my posts this morning I have one last hurdle to jump.
1. I have a VAX with a TK70 attached and a TQK70 controller.
2. The tape drive works just fine.
3. Also on the VAX I have the correct tape (.TAP) image file for a RSTS/E V10
install tape.
4. I would like to copy the .tap file to the tape so as to end up with a bootable
install tape.
5. I then power down the VAX and move the controller to an 11/83. (The
drive is external with its own PSU)
6. Boot the install tape and go from there.
So suggestions please as to how to do 4.
Assuming the tape needs to be ANSI formatted then I would mount the .TAP file under SIMH,
copy the files to a simulated VAX, noting the order of storage. Then copy the files to the
real VAX and copy the files in the same order to the real TK70. I think a long time ago I
made a diagnostic tape in this way (possibly in reverse though, from real tape to virtual
tape, can't quite remember now).
Regards
Rob
12:28 p.m.
On 21/05/2016 19:56, Robert Jarratt wrote:
Thank you Rob.
OK first interesting point.
SIMH knows about .TAP and real DEC systems don't
Second point:
The RSTS install tape is just a bunch of files.
There's nothing requiring image copy to deal with funny file formats
Third Point
There's no way to copy an image only files under any DEC operating system.
Fourth Point
If I had a RSTS system how would I make a backup copy of the install tape?
So its a SIMH route answer.
Regards
Rod
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Rod
Smallwood
Sent: 21 May 2016 19:29
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Subject: The RSTS riddle.
Hi
Further to my posts this morning I have one last hurdle to jump.
1. I have a VAX with a TK70 attached and a TQK70 controller.
2. The tape drive works just fine.
3. Also on the VAX I have the correct tape (.TAP) image file for a RSTS/E V10
install tape.
4. I would like to copy the .tap file to the tape so as to end up with a bootable
install tape.
5. I then power down the VAX and move the controller to an 11/83. (The
drive is external with its own PSU)
6. Boot the install tape and go from there.
So suggestions please as to how to do 4.
Assuming the tape needs to be ANSI formatted then I would mount the .TAP file
under SIMH, copy the files to a simulated VAX, noting the order of storage. Then copy the
files to the real VAX and copy the files in the same order to the real TK70. I think a
long time ago I made a diagnostic tape in this way (possibly in reverse though, from real
tape to virtual tape, can't quite remember now).
Regards
Rob
1:51 p.m.
On 5/21/16 12:28 PM, Rod Smallwood wrote:
Third Point
There's no way to copy an image only files under any DEC operating system.
Fourth Point
If I had a RSTS system how would I make a backup copy of the install tape?
you would use TPC, and you can convert between TAP and TPC
dealing with tape images is easier in the unix world
https://www.brouhaha.com/~eric/software/tapeutils/
from the "SIMH tape images to real tapes"
thread on the simh mailing list
http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/pipermail/simh/
Googling around only seems to want to show me how to copy real tapes
to images. I need to copy a SIMH tape image to a real tape!
I seem to recall SIMH including a utility for this...but I could be
mistaken.
I will need a utility that will run on VMS (VAX) as I need to use a
TK50 to make a TK50. (Unless someone wants to doante a TK70. )
I use vtapeutils to convert from the 4 byte record header format that
Simh uses to a 2 byte record header format:
http://sourceforge.net/projects/vtapeutils/
Then I use VMSTPC to copy this to a real tape:
http://decuslib.com/decus/vax86d/bnelson/vmstpc/
6:25 p.m.
On May 21, 2016, at 3:28 PM, Rod Smallwood
<rodsmallwood52 at btinternet.com> wrote:
Second point:
The RSTS install tape is just a bunch of files.
There's nothing requiring image copy to deal with funny file formats
No, that is not accurate. An install tape (for V9 or later) is a bootable tape with a
backup set on it. Bootable tapes have DOS labels, but backupsets have ANSI labels. The
install tape is a hybrid, part DOS, part ANSI. I'd have to dig in the machinery to
find the details, but I definitely remember that it's a rather odd beast.
If you do an image copy of the TAP file to tape none of this matters.
paul
8:52 p.m.
On 22/05/2016 02:25, Paul Koning wrote:
That's exactly what I'm trying to do. So how do I make the image copy to
tape.
I am none to clever. Besides being told what to do I need to know how to
do it.
Rod
On May 21,
2016, at 3:28 PM, Rod Smallwood <rodsmallwood52 at btinternet.com> wrote:
Second point:
The RSTS install tape is just a bunch of files.
There's nothing requiring image copy to deal with funny file formats
No, that is not accurate. An install tape (for V9 or later) is a bootable tape with a
backup set on it. Bootable tapes have DOS labels, but backupsets have ANSI labels. The
install tape is a hybrid, part DOS, part ANSI. I'd have to dig in the machinery to
find the details, but I definitely remember that it's a rather odd beast.
If you do an image copy of the TAP file to tape none of this matters.
paul
3 Jun
3 Jun
8:42 a.m.
On Saturday, May 21st, 2016 at 19:29:11 +0100, Rod
Smallwood wrote:
Further to my posts this morning I have one last
hurdle to jump.
1. I have a VAX with a TK70 attached and a TQK70 controller.
2. The tape drive works just fine.
3. Also on the VAX I have the correct tape (.TAP) image file for a
RSTS/E V10 install tape.
4. I would like to copy the .tap file to the tape so as to end up with
a bootable install tape.
5. I then power down the VAX and move the controller to an 11/83. (The
drive is external with its own PSU)
6. Boot the install tape and go from there.
So suggestions please as to how to do 4.
Just a suggestion concerning the use of the PDP-11/83,
or for that matter, any PDP-11 system within either a
BA23 or a BA123 box with either a TK50 and / or a
TK70.
Whenever I used the PDP-11/83 with ESDI hard drives
(I use 3 * Hitachi DK515 600 MB drives which require
a reasonable initial power surge at start-up), I always used
an external power supply in order to minimize the load on
the standard DEC internal power for the boards in the
backplane. At one point, I also attached the TK70 to that
same power supply. My experience was MUCH LESS
than successful. For reasons which I never bothered to
figure out, the TK70 would function successfully ONLY
when it was connected to the same standard DEC internal
power supply as the boards in the PDP-11/83.
So if you find there are problems, try connecting the TK70
to the standard DEC internal power supply.
Jerome Fine
3123
days inactive
3136
days old
6 comments
5 participants
participants (5)
-
aek＠bitsavers.org -
jhfinedp3k＠compsys.to -
paulkoning＠comcast.net -
robert.jarratt＠ntlworld.com -
rodsmallwood52＠btinternet.com