4 Feb
2015
4 Feb
'15
9:40 a.m.
So I've seen some references which say that the M8190-AB and -AC (w-o/w FPJ11
FPP chip) are 15 MHz "11/73" CPUs for QBUS use, and the M8190-AD and -AE
(w-o/w FPJ11) are 18 MHz "11/83-84" CPUs for UNIBUS use (via the KTJ11-B
convertor, of course). (Of course, the /83 is nominally QBUS, but let's ignore
that for the moment... :-)
(And I'm not even going to try to give the KDJ11- suffixes that go with
these... :-)
However, I'm wondering if this is correct... I have a CPU board out of a 11/84
(one owned by DEC, no less!) which says M8190-AB on the handles, but the clock
crystal says "18.432", and it has a 57-19400-09 J11 chip, which seems to be
the 18MHz version (the 15Mhz seems to be -04).
Comparing it to a 'stock' -AB, this one seems to have the same 74S472 PROMs
(6 along the lower left-hand edge), PALs (top center and lower left), etc.
But they also match the ones on a 'stock' -AE, too!
So clearly an -AB/AC _can_ be _upgraded_ to an -AD/-AE... but are there
actually any differences between an -AB/AC and an -AD/-AE, other than the
speed?
I don't have my /84 up yet, so I can't plug a stock -AB in and see if it
works, but I'm starting to get the impression that except for the speed of the
J11 (and the crystal), and whether or not it came with the FPJ11, all four of
these boards are otherwise identical. Whether it's a 73, 83 or 84 depends
entirely on whether it has PMI memory and the KTJ11-B UNIBUS converter (and
the correct backplane, for the latter, of course).
Anyone have an confirmation one way or the other? Thanks!
Noel
4 Feb
4 Feb
11:22 a.m.
Without any checking, just digging in my "grey cells", so I could be wrong
...
The 11/84 has all of its memory "elsewhere", that is *not* on the CPU
module.
The 11/94 has *all* memory that can be addressed *on* the CPU module.
So, the 11/94 has either 2MB or 4MB, what's installed on the module.
The performance gain of the 11/94 over the 11/84 is in fact the local
memory.
If the 11/84 has 100% cache hits, it comes close to the 11/94. You could see
the 11/94 as an 11/84 with all memory as cache memory.
AFAIK, you cannot add memory to the 11/94 by adding a memory module
on the bus. The memory must be on the CPU module.
- Henk, PA8PDP
-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
From: Noel Chiappa
Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2015 6:40 PM
To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
Cc: jnc at mercury.lcs.mit.edu
Subject: Differences between PDP-11/83-84 M8190-AB/AC and AD/AE CPU cards
So I've seen some references which say that the M8190-AB and -AC (w-o/w
FPJ11
FPP chip) are 15 MHz "11/73" CPUs for QBUS use, and the M8190-AD and -AE
(w-o/w FPJ11) are 18 MHz "11/83-84" CPUs for UNIBUS use (via the KTJ11-B
convertor, of course). (Of course, the /83 is nominally QBUS, but let's
ignore
that for the moment... :-)
(And I'm not even going to try to give the KDJ11- suffixes that go with
these... :-)
However, I'm wondering if this is correct... I have a CPU board out of a
11/84
(one owned by DEC, no less!) which says M8190-AB on the handles, but the
clock
crystal says "18.432", and it has a 57-19400-09 J11 chip, which seems to be
the 18MHz version (the 15Mhz seems to be -04).
Comparing it to a 'stock' -AB, this one seems to have the same 74S472 PROMs
(6 along the lower left-hand edge), PALs (top center and lower left), etc.
But they also match the ones on a 'stock' -AE, too!
So clearly an -AB/AC _can_ be _upgraded_ to an -AD/-AE... but are there
actually any differences between an -AB/AC and an -AD/-AE, other than the
speed?
I don't have my /84 up yet, so I can't plug a stock -AB in and see if it
works, but I'm starting to get the impression that except for the speed of
the
J11 (and the crystal), and whether or not it came with the FPJ11, all four
of
these boards are otherwise identical. Whether it's a 73, 83 or 84 depends
entirely on whether it has PMI memory and the KTJ11-B UNIBUS converter (and
the correct backplane, for the latter, of course).
Anyone have an confirmation one way or the other? Thanks!
Noel
11:29 a.m.
Oops,
that was not the asked question!
All I know about the /73 and /83 is the crystal, and the CPU "version"
(-09).
Maybe a few PALs have to be a faster version, but I do not expect that.
The 15 MHz to 18 MHz is not that big of a difference.
Apologies for the previous post,
- Henk
-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
From: Henk Gooijen
Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2015 8:22 PM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: Differences between PDP-11/83-84 M8190-AB/AC and AD/AE CPU
cards
Without any checking, just digging in my "grey cells", so I could be wrong
...
The 11/84 has all of its memory "elsewhere", that is *not* on the CPU
module.
The 11/94 has *all* memory that can be addressed *on* the CPU module.
So, the 11/94 has either 2MB or 4MB, what's installed on the module.
The performance gain of the 11/94 over the 11/84 is in fact the local
memory.
If the 11/84 has 100% cache hits, it comes close to the 11/94. You could see
the 11/94 as an 11/84 with all memory as cache memory.
AFAIK, you cannot add memory to the 11/94 by adding a memory module
on the bus. The memory must be on the CPU module.
- Henk, PA8PDP
-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
From: Noel Chiappa
Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2015 6:40 PM
To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
Cc: jnc at mercury.lcs.mit.edu
Subject: Differences between PDP-11/83-84 M8190-AB/AC and AD/AE CPU cards
So I've seen some references which say that the M8190-AB and -AC (w-o/w
FPJ11
FPP chip) are 15 MHz "11/73" CPUs for QBUS use, and the M8190-AD and -AE
(w-o/w FPJ11) are 18 MHz "11/83-84" CPUs for UNIBUS use (via the KTJ11-B
convertor, of course). (Of course, the /83 is nominally QBUS, but let's
ignore
that for the moment... :-)
(And I'm not even going to try to give the KDJ11- suffixes that go with
these... :-)
However, I'm wondering if this is correct... I have a CPU board out of a
11/84
(one owned by DEC, no less!) which says M8190-AB on the handles, but the
clock
crystal says "18.432", and it has a 57-19400-09 J11 chip, which seems to be
the 18MHz version (the 15Mhz seems to be -04).
Comparing it to a 'stock' -AB, this one seems to have the same 74S472 PROMs
(6 along the lower left-hand edge), PALs (top center and lower left), etc.
But they also match the ones on a 'stock' -AE, too!
So clearly an -AB/AC _can_ be _upgraded_ to an -AD/-AE... but are there
actually any differences between an -AB/AC and an -AD/-AE, other than the
speed?
I don't have my /84 up yet, so I can't plug a stock -AB in and see if it
works, but I'm starting to get the impression that except for the speed of
the
J11 (and the crystal), and whether or not it came with the FPJ11, all four
of
these boards are otherwise identical. Whether it's a 73, 83 or 84 depends
entirely on whether it has PMI memory and the KTJ11-B UNIBUS converter (and
the correct backplane, for the latter, of course).
Anyone have an confirmation one way or the other? Thanks!
Noel
11:38 a.m.
Not a proper answer to Noel, but I've read that the FPA will not work in
early CPU cards. Something wrong with the connections to the socket, I
seem to recall (but it's just some impression from my reading).
Also, for some reason only a couple of variants are listed as usable in
the 11/84. Might be some issues with detecting and handling the bus at
the CPU in an 11/84 since the 11/84 usage of that bus differs from when
it is used as an 11/83.
The 11/84 variant is pretty much a PMI bus all the way, but I seem to
remember a couple of signals defined differently even in the 11/84
compared to the 11/83.
And then of course, the J11 itself came in different variants with
bugfixes. Not all J11 chips can even use the FPA.
ALl in all, that gives a lot of combinations. Some, I would suspect,
would definitely be fixable by replacing some PAL.
Johnny
On 2015-02-04 20:29, Henk Gooijen wrote:
Oops,
that was not the asked question!
All I know about the /73 and /83 is the crystal, and the CPU "version"
(-09).
Maybe a few PALs have to be a faster version, but I do not expect that.
The 15 MHz to 18 MHz is not that big of a difference.
Apologies for the previous post,
- Henk
-----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- From: Henk Gooijen
Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2015 8:22 PM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: Differences between PDP-11/83-84 M8190-AB/AC and AD/AE CPU
cards
Without any checking, just digging in my "grey cells", so I could be wrong
...
The 11/84 has all of its memory "elsewhere", that is *not* on the CPU
module.
The 11/94 has *all* memory that can be addressed *on* the CPU module.
So, the 11/94 has either 2MB or 4MB, what's installed on the module.
The performance gain of the 11/94 over the 11/84 is in fact the local
memory.
If the 11/84 has 100% cache hits, it comes close to the 11/94. You could
see
the 11/94 as an 11/84 with all memory as cache memory.
AFAIK, you cannot add memory to the 11/94 by adding a memory module
on the bus. The memory must be on the CPU module.
- Henk, PA8PDP
-----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- From: Noel Chiappa
Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2015 6:40 PM
To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
Cc: jnc at mercury.lcs.mit.edu
Subject: Differences between PDP-11/83-84 M8190-AB/AC and AD/AE CPU cards
So I've seen some references which say that the M8190-AB and -AC (w-o/w
FPJ11
FPP chip) are 15 MHz "11/73" CPUs for QBUS use, and the M8190-AD and -AE
(w-o/w FPJ11) are 18 MHz "11/83-84" CPUs for UNIBUS use (via the KTJ11-B
convertor, of course). (Of course, the /83 is nominally QBUS, but let's
ignore
that for the moment... :-)
(And I'm not even going to try to give the KDJ11- suffixes that go with
these... :-)
However, I'm wondering if this is correct... I have a CPU board out of a
11/84
(one owned by DEC, no less!) which says M8190-AB on the handles, but the
clock
crystal says "18.432", and it has a 57-19400-09 J11 chip, which seems to be
the 18MHz version (the 15Mhz seems to be -04).
Comparing it to a 'stock' -AB, this one seems to have the same 74S472 PROMs
(6 along the lower left-hand edge), PALs (top center and lower left), etc.
But they also match the ones on a 'stock' -AE, too!
So clearly an -AB/AC _can_ be _upgraded_ to an -AD/-AE... but are there
actually any differences between an -AB/AC and an -AD/-AE, other than the
speed?
I don't have my /84 up yet, so I can't plug a stock -AB in and see if it
works, but I'm starting to get the impression that except for the speed of
the
J11 (and the crystal), and whether or not it came with the FPJ11, all four
of
these boards are otherwise identical. Whether it's a 73, 83 or 84 depends
entirely on whether it has PMI memory and the KTJ11-B UNIBUS converter (and
the correct backplane, for the latter, of course).
Anyone have an confirmation one way or the other? Thanks!
Noel
11:32 a.m.
I think that is all correct, Henk, but Noel was asking about the
differences between the various M8190 cards, which are all 11/73, 11/83,
11/84 CPUs.
Johnny
On 2015-02-04 20:22, Henk Gooijen wrote:
Without any checking, just digging in my "grey
cells", so I could be
wrong ...
The 11/84 has all of its memory "elsewhere", that is *not* on the CPU
module.
The 11/94 has *all* memory that can be addressed *on* the CPU module.
So, the 11/94 has either 2MB or 4MB, what's installed on the module.
The performance gain of the 11/94 over the 11/84 is in fact the local
memory.
If the 11/84 has 100% cache hits, it comes close to the 11/94. You could
see
the 11/94 as an 11/84 with all memory as cache memory.
AFAIK, you cannot add memory to the 11/94 by adding a memory module
on the bus. The memory must be on the CPU module.
- Henk, PA8PDP
-----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- From: Noel Chiappa
Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2015 6:40 PM
To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
Cc: jnc at mercury.lcs.mit.edu
Subject: Differences between PDP-11/83-84 M8190-AB/AC and AD/AE CPU cards
So I've seen some references which say that the M8190-AB and -AC (w-o/w
FPJ11
FPP chip) are 15 MHz "11/73" CPUs for QBUS use, and the M8190-AD and -AE
(w-o/w FPJ11) are 18 MHz "11/83-84" CPUs for UNIBUS use (via the KTJ11-B
convertor, of course). (Of course, the /83 is nominally QBUS, but let's
ignore
that for the moment... :-)
(And I'm not even going to try to give the KDJ11- suffixes that go with
these... :-)
However, I'm wondering if this is correct... I have a CPU board out of a
11/84
(one owned by DEC, no less!) which says M8190-AB on the handles, but the
clock
crystal says "18.432", and it has a 57-19400-09 J11 chip, which seems to be
the 18MHz version (the 15Mhz seems to be -04).
Comparing it to a 'stock' -AB, this one seems to have the same 74S472 PROMs
(6 along the lower left-hand edge), PALs (top center and lower left), etc.
But they also match the ones on a 'stock' -AE, too!
So clearly an -AB/AC _can_ be _upgraded_ to an -AD/-AE... but are there
actually any differences between an -AB/AC and an -AD/-AE, other than the
speed?
I don't have my /84 up yet, so I can't plug a stock -AB in and see if it
works, but I'm starting to get the impression that except for the speed
of the
J11 (and the crystal), and whether or not it came with the FPJ11, all
four of
these boards are otherwise identical. Whether it's a 73, 83 or 84 depends
entirely on whether it has PMI memory and the KTJ11-B UNIBUS converter (and
the correct backplane, for the latter, of course).
Anyone have an confirmation one way or the other? Thanks!
Noel
6:10 p.m.
On 04/02/2015 17:40, Noel Chiappa wrote:
So I've seen some references which say that the
M8190-AB and -AC
(w-o/w FPJ11 FPP chip) are 15 MHz "11/73" CPUs for QBUS use, and the
M8190-AD and -AE (w-o/w FPJ11) are 18 MHz "11/83-84" CPUs for UNIBUS
use (via the KTJ11-B convertor, of course). (Of course, the /83 is
nominally QBUS, but let's ignore that for the moment... :-)
However, I'm wondering if this is correct... I
have a CPU board out
of a 11/84 (one owned by DEC, no less!) which says M8190-AB on the
handles, but the clock crystal says "18.432", and it has a
57-19400-09 J11 chip, which seems to be the 18MHz version (the 15Mhz
seems to be -04).
There were various revisions of the J11 chip, which was originally
designed to run rather faster (more than 20MHz) than early ones were
found to be capable of reliably. So "slow" ones were clocked at 15MHz
and sold as 11/73 boards, faster ones clocked at 18MHz and sold as 11/83
(or later as /84 - there's no difference at all in the boards). To
further differentiate the two, DEC arranged 11/83s with PMI memory, and
11/73s with normal QBus memory, but both boards are capable of running
in either memory configuration. Additionally, 11/83s normally had the
FPA as standard.
Another variation comes about because bugs in early revisions of the J11
CPU and the corresponding gate arrays meant they didn't work properly
with the FPA. But most 11/73 (15MHz) boards are OK.
Whether it's a 73, 83 or 84 depends entirely on
whether it has PMI
memory and the KTJ11-B UNIBUS converter (and the correct backplane,
for the latter, of course).
Correct. And in fact if you run XXDP or any other DEC software that
tests for 73/83ness, you'll find the result depends entirely on where
the memory is, and not on anything else. Also if you're lucky, and keep
the system well inside the designed temperature range and loading, you
can even upgrade the crystal oscillator on an 11/73.
As to the difference between the M8190 in an 11/83 and that in an 11/84,
there is none. But IIRC there's a difference in the way one signal is
used on the backplane, and IIRC (again) the earliest 11/83 ROMs may not
work properly in an 11/84.
--
Pete
Pete Turnbull
6:53 p.m.
On 2015-Feb-04, at 6:10 PM, Pete Turnbull wrote:
On 04/02/2015 17:40, Noel Chiappa wrote:
This is all interesting, does anyone have a reference/source for the J11 part # suffix vs.
clock speed?
I was wondering about J11 clock speeds a few months ago, mostly out of curiousity, while
working on a little project,
(leaving aside clock speed, PDP11 geeks might find it mildly amusing):
http://www.cs.ubc.ca/~hilpert/e/pdp11hack/index.html
Notice the link in there to an article by Bob Supnik that refers to clock speeds down in
the 3-5 MHz range. I wonder what's going on there - if what Bob is saying is accurate
how did this chip design ever reach 15/18/20MHz?
The J11 I have has a suffix of -08, and 1987 date code.
So I've seen some references which say that
the M8190-AB and -AC
(w-o/w FPJ11 FPP chip) are 15 MHz "11/73" CPUs for QBUS use, and the
M8190-AD and -AE (w-o/w FPJ11) are 18 MHz "11/83-84" CPUs for UNIBUS
use (via the KTJ11-B convertor, of course). (Of course, the /83 is
nominally QBUS, but let's ignore that for the moment... :-)
However, I'm wondering if this is correct...
I have a CPU board out
of a 11/84 (one owned by DEC, no less!) which says M8190-AB on the
handles, but the clock crystal says "18.432", and it has a
57-19400-09 J11 chip, which seems to be the 18MHz version (the 15Mhz
seems to be -04).
There were various revisions of the J11 chip, which was originally
designed to run rather faster (more than 20MHz) than early ones were
found to be capable of reliably. So "slow" ones were clocked at 15MHz and sold
as 11/73 boards, faster ones clocked at 18MHz and sold as 11/83 (or later as /84 -
there's no difference at all in the boards). To further differentiate the two, DEC
arranged 11/83s with PMI memory, and 11/73s with normal QBus memory, but both boards are
capable of running in either memory configuration. Additionally, 11/83s normally had the
FPA as standard. 
7:09 p.m.
Noel Chiappa wrote:
So I've seen some references which say that the
M8190-AB and -AC (w-o/w FPJ11
FPP chip) are 15 MHz "11/73" CPUs for QBUS use, and the M8190-AD and -AE
(w-o/w FPJ11) are 18 MHz "11/83-84" CPUs for UNIBUS use (via the KTJ11-B
convertor, of course). (Of course, the /83 is nominally QBUS, but let's ignore
that for the moment... :-)
(And I'm not even going to try to give the KDJ11- suffixes that go with
these... :-)
However, I'm wondering if this is correct... I have a CPU board out of a 11/84
(one owned by DEC, no less!) which says M8190-AB on the handles, but the clock
crystal says "18.432", and it has a 57-19400-09 J11 chip, which seems to be
the 18MHz version (the 15Mhz seems to be -04).
Comparing it to a 'stock' -AB, this one seems to have the same 74S472 PROMs
(6 along the lower left-hand edge), PALs (top center and lower left), etc.
But they also match the ones on a 'stock' -AE, too!
So clearly an -AB/AC _can_ be _upgraded_ to an -AD/-AE... but are there
actually any differences between an -AB/AC and an -AD/-AE, other than the
speed?
I don't have my /84 up yet, so I can't plug a stock -AB in and see if it
works, but I'm starting to get the impression that except for the speed of the
J11 (and the crystal), and whether or not it came with the FPJ11, all four of
these boards are otherwise identical. Whether it's a 73, 83 or 84 depends
entirely on whether it has PMI memory and the KTJ11-B UNIBUS converter (and
the correct backplane, for the latter, of course).
Anyone have an confirmation one way or the other? Thanks!
Short summary: The M8190-AE is used in BOTH the PDP-11/83 and the
PDP-11/84.
The crystal used is 18 MHz. The latest revisions of both the CPU and
the FPU must
be used to ensure that there are no floating point instruction errors.
The FPU chip is
standard with the M8190-AE.
Longer explanation: The PMI memory used in the PDP-11/84 is
sufficiently different
from the PMI memory used in the PDP-11/83 that the
magic smoke might be
released
if the incorrect PMI memory is used. The MSV11-JB (1 MB) and MSV11-JC
(2 MB)
are used in the PDP-11/84. The MSV11-JD (1 MB) and the MSV11-JE (2 MB) are
used in the PDP-11/83. In addition, for at least the PDP-11/83, the PMI
memory must
be placed into the backplane ahead of the CPU for the memory to function
as PMI
memory. That may be the only position allowed for the memory for the
PDP-11/84.
I seem to remember that when two memory boards are used, they should be
the same.
And for the Qbus, if the PMI memory is placed into the backplane
following the CPU
(the normal position for the PDP-11/73), then the memory functions as
standard non-PMI
memory. Finally, most M8190-AA, M8190-AB and M8190-AC boards (PDP-11/73)
with the 15 MHz crystal will support using the MSV11-JD and MSV11-JE
boards both
above and below the CPU. If used above, they will function as PMI
memory (as noted
by the RT-11 show command) and the system will also gain the extra
speed. If used below
the CPU, they memory functions as normal Qbus memory.
Speed Difference Between M8190-AC and M8190-AE: When the PMI memory is
below
the CPU on the M8190-AC and there is a 15 MHz crystal, the raw speed of
the M8190-AE
with PMI memory above the CPU is about 33% faster. If the PMI memory is
placed above
both the M8190-AC and the M8190-AE, the raw speed of the M8190-AE is
about 13%
faster. By simple arithmetic, I conclude that placing the PMI memory
above the CPU on the
M8190-AC adds about 20% to the raw speed. The speed tests were done
about 15 years
ago and with only done to obtain a ball park figure. I compared the
time is took for BINCOM
to compare a 7000 block VM: disk against itself, so no disk access was
involved except to
bring BINCOM into memory and execute.
If I left anything out, please remind me.
Jerome Fine
7:44 p.m.
On Wed, Feb 4, 2015 at 7:09 PM, Jerome H. Fine <jhfinedp3k at compsys.to> wrote:
Longer explanation: The PMI memory used in the PDP-11/84 is sufficiently
different
from the PMI memory used in the PDP-11/83 that the magic smoke might be
released
if the incorrect PMI memory is used. The MSV11-JB (1 MB) and MSV11-JC (2
MB)
are used in the PDP-11/84. The MSV11-JD (1 MB) and the MSV11-JE (2 MB) are
used in the PDP-11/83.
The MSV11-JD and MSV11-JE are documented as being compatible with both
the PDP-11/84 and Q-bus systems. The documented restriction is that
the MSV11-JB and MSV11-JC are only compatible with PDP-11/84 systems
and incompatible with Q-bus systems.
http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/qbus/oemMicronotes.pdf
uNote # 028
MSV11-Q/M/J MEMORY COMPARISONS
MSV11-J
-------
The MSV11-J has four versions, the MSV11-JB and the MSV11-JC which are
used in the PDP-11/84 UNIBUS systems and the MSV11-JD and the MSV11-JE
are used in either the MicroPDP-11/83 Q-bus systems, or the PDP-11/84
UNIBUS systems. All four modules use ECC memory for error correction,
as well as using 256K bit MOS RAM parts on either a half for fully
populated quad size module.
NOTE:
-----
NONE OF THE FOUR MSV11-J MODULES CAN BE PLACED IN A Q/Q BACKPLANE
SLOT. IF THIS IS ATTEMPTED PERMANENT DAMAGE WILL BE DONE TO THE BOARDS
AND TO THE SYSTEM.
The MSV11-JB (M8637-BA) is a half populated quad size PMI memory
module containing 1MB of memory. The second version of the MSV11-J is
the MSV11-JC (M8637-CA), this is a fully populated MSV11-JB quad size
PMI memory module containing 2MB of memory. These two module can not
be used in a Q-bus system due to gate array incompatibilities, and can
only be used in the PDP-11/84 systems which use the UNIBUS/PMI bus
interface (KTJ11-A). The third version of the MSV11-J is the MSV11-JD
(M8637-DA) which is a half populated quad size PMI memory module
containing 1MB of memory. The last version of the MSV11-J is the
MSV11-JE, (M8637-EA) which is a fully populated MSV11-JD quad size PMI
memory module containing 2MB of memory. These last two modules can be
used with either the MicroPDP-11/83 system which uses the Q-bus/PMI
bus interface or the PDP-11/84 system which was mentioned above.
Although the MSV11-JD and MSV11-JE are PMI memories they can be used
in two other Q-bus configurations.
(more details follow...)
5 Feb
5 Feb
12:12 p.m.
Noel Chiappa wrote:
So I've seen some references which say that the
M8190-AB and -AC (w-o/w FPJ11
FPP chip) are 15 MHz "11/73" CPUs for QBUS use, and the M8190-AD and -AE
(w-o/w FPJ11) are 18 MHz "11/83-84" CPUs for UNIBUS use (via the KTJ11-B
convertor, of course). (Of course, the /83 is nominally QBUS, but let's ignore
that for the moment... :-)
(And I'm not even going to try to give the KDJ11- suffixes that go with
these... :-)
However, I'm wondering if this is correct... I have a CPU board out of a 11/84
(one owned by DEC, no less!) which says M8190-AB on the handles, but the clock
crystal says "18.432", and it has a 57-19400-09 J11 chip, which seems to be
the 18MHz version (the 15Mhz seems to be -04).
Comparing it to a 'stock' -AB, this one seems to have the same 74S472 PROMs
(6 along the lower left-hand edge), PALs (top center and lower left), etc.
But they also match the ones on a 'stock' -AE, too!
So clearly an -AB/AC _can_ be _upgraded_ to an -AD/-AE... but are there
actually any differences between an -AB/AC and an -AD/-AE, other than the
speed?
I don't have my /84 up yet, so I can't plug a stock -AB in and see if it
works, but I'm starting to get the impression that except for the speed of the
J11 (and the crystal), and whether or not it came with the FPJ11, all four of
these boards are otherwise identical. Whether it's a 73, 83 or 84 depends
entirely on whether it has PMI memory and the KTJ11-B UNIBUS converter (and
the correct backplane, for the latter, of course).
Anyone have an confirmation one way or the other? Thanks!
Noel
I've upgraded my Board from 15 to 18Mhz, changed the xtal and the J11,
works flawlessly on 2.11 BSD with PMI memory and FPU.
Regards,
Holm
--
Technik Service u. Handel Tiffe, www.tsht.de, Holm Tiffe,
Freiberger Stra?e 42, 09600 Obersch?na, USt-Id: DE253710583
www.tsht.de, info at tsht.de, Fax +49 3731 74200, Mobil: 0172 8790 741
3607
days inactive
3608
days old
9 comments
8 participants
participants (8)
-
bqt＠update.uu.se -
glen.slick＠gmail.com -
henk.gooijen＠hotmail.com -
hilpert＠cs.ubc.ca -
holm＠freibergnet.de -
jhfinedp3k＠compsys.to -
jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu -
pete＠dunnington.plus.com