18 May
2000
18 May
'00
2:55 p.m.
Yesterday I picked up one of my more unusual finds, a Beehive MicroB
terminal that looks like it's new in the box. See pictures at
"http://www.intellistar.net/~rigdonj/beehive/b4.jpg" through
"http://www.intellistar.net/~rigdonj/beehive/b9.jpg". You can see in
picture b7 that it was still sealed up in a plastic bag inside the box.
Does anyone want this? I don't need it and I don't have room to keep
it. I powered it up today and it appears to work. You can see in the last
picture that it does have a raster and cursor. I don't have a systemn that
uses a terminal so I can't test it beyond that. The screen is normal but
the camera frooze the raster in mid sweep so it appears that only half the
screen has a display. Again, the screen is ok and it does have a full
screen display. Youcan see the cursor in the top LH corner above the
highlighted portion of the screen. If anyone is interested in it, contact
me directly. It's located in central Florida. The buyer pays shipping and a
modest amount for my time.
Joe
18 May
18 May
3:24 p.m.
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19 May
19 May
4:49 a.m.
Tony,
At 01:24 AM 5/19/00 +0100, you wrote:
Yes, but it's over at someone else house at the moment.
Yesterday I picked up one of my more unusual finds, a Beehive MicroB
terminal that looks like it's new in the box. See pictures at
"http://www.intellistar.net/~rigdonj/beehive/b4.jpg" through
"http://www.intellistar.net/~rigdonj/beehive/b9.jpg". You can see in
picture b7 that it was still sealed up in a plastic bag inside the box.
Does anyone want this? I don't need it and I don't have room to keep
it. I powered it up today and it appears to work. You can see in the last
picture that it does have a raster and cursor. I don't have a systemn that
uses a terminal so I can't test it beyond that. The screen is normal but
Don't you still have that 11/73 you were asking about last week. That
could use this as a terminal, surely.
And are you saying that you don't have _any_ other machine with an RS232
port? Surely you have _something_ that can send and receive characters?
Of course I do. I can alway use the over abundant PCs. But I don't want
to take the time to figure out the port pinouts and make a cable.
And 95% of all terminals only need the data leads on the RS232 connector
(there may be a setup option for this). In which case shorting pin 2 to
pin 3 on the RS232 connector will do a loopback test --
I thought about that but I ran out of time and had to put it away for
the evening. Wouldn't you have to jumper the handshaking signals too? I
don't know which of them this terminal requires. I didn't get a manual for
it. :-(
anything you type
on the keyboard should appear on the screen. That
doesn't test
_everything_ (for example the baud rate could be wildly off, but if it
uses the same rate for Tx and Rx, this test would pass), but it will
check much of the terminal logic.
Joe
4:29 a.m.
I'm not sure the Beehive terminal is the best-supported one available, but
if you've any hope of getting your Altair running with "period" hardware,
i.e. with hardware available in the era in which the box was designed, I'd
say you're going to need one. Video boards for the S-100 were not common
until much later, with the possible exception of the SSM VB1, which does not
provide a standard 80x24 display.
If this terminal is really unused, it might be worth going through and
swapping the electrolytic caps with some relatively new ones, but it
probably would work well otherwise. 20-year old electrolytics need to be
"re-formed" if they're to work reliably. That involves removing them from
the circuit and gradually cycling them up to peak voltage and current. If
you have to remove them, it makes more sense to replace them rather than to
go through the re-forming process. Some of them may die anyway, due to
tired dielectric.
A TVI 910 or a Lear-Siegler ADM-3A might be a more widely supported choice.
I used either a TVI or a Hazeltine Esprit emulating a Hazeltine 1500 most of
the time. I didn't start using this S-100 stuff until 1977, however.
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: Joe <rigdonj(a)intellistar.net>
To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Friday, May 19, 2000 7:49 AM
Subject: Re: rescued a beehive!
Tony,
At 01:24 AM 5/19/00 +0100, you wrote:
>>
>> Yesterday I picked up one of my more unusual finds, a Beehive MicroB
>> terminal that looks like it's new in the box. See pictures at
>> "http://www.intellistar.net/~rigdonj/beehive/b4.jpg" through
>> "http://www.intellistar.net/~rigdonj/beehive/b9.jpg". You can see in
>> picture b7 that it was still sealed up in a plastic bag inside the box.
>>
>> Does anyone want this? I don't need it and I don't have room to
keep
>> it. I powered it up today and it appears to
work. You can see in the
last
>> picture that it does have a raster and
cursor. I don't have a systemn
that
>> uses a terminal so I can't test it beyond
that. The screen is normal
but
Don't you still have that 11/73 you were asking about last week. That
could use this as a terminal, surely.
Yes, but it's over at someone else house at the moment.
And are you saying that you don't have _any_ other machine with an RS232
port? Surely you have _something_ that can send and receive characters?
Of course I do. I can alway use the over abundant PCs. But I don't want
to take the time to figure out the port pinouts and make a cable.
And 95% of all terminals only need the data leads on the RS232 connector
(there may be a setup option for this). In which case shorting pin 2 to
pin 3 on the RS232 connector will do a loopback test --
I thought about that but I ran out of time and had to put it away for
the evening. Wouldn't you have to jumper the handshaking signals too? I
don't know which of them this terminal requires. I didn't get a manual for
it. :-(
anything you type
on the keyboard should appear on the screen. That
doesn't test
_everything_ (for example the baud rate could be wildly off, but if it
uses the same rate for Tx and Rx, this test would pass), but it will
check much of the terminal logic.
Joe
5:10 a.m.
say you're going to need one. Video boards for
the S-100 were not common
until much later, with the possible exception of the SSM VB1, which does not
provide a standard 80x24 display.
The "video boards" for S100 were amoung the first third party boards. Most
however were of the VDM-1 style as 64chars x16lines with the 80x24 being
much later (78ish).
A TVI 910 or a Lear-Siegler ADM-3A might be a more
widely supported choice.
The TVI was a late commer and more likely the early 80s. ADM1/1a/3 were
the most widely supported and second was the Vt52 (or VT52 on vt100) as
many terminals emulated either DEC or ADM.
I used either a TVI or a Hazeltine Esprit emulating a
Hazeltine 1500 most of
the time. I didn't start using this S-100 stuff until 1977, however.
The Esprit(later) and 1500(earlier) were not that popular. Also the
support on them varied on model (1500, 1520, 1552 or 1400, 1420).
Allison
7:20 a.m.
Well, Allison, you're right about the Esprit, since it didn't come around
until the very late '70's, but it was my choice at that time because (1)
there was no significantly cheaper terminal available, and (2) it emulated
the Hazeltine 1500, LSI ADM-3A, and one other which I don't remember, since
I probably never had occasion to use it. The basis for my suggestion that
the terminals best for CP/M is my experience that the ones I listed and the
Visual 50 (also with several emulations) were the ones we had the fewest
compatibility issues under CP/M. Various software packages had to be
configured specifically for whichever terminal was in use, and being "close"
generally led to trouble.
The early video boards with 16 lines of 64 characters weren't supported by
most software vendors at the time. Only after the popularity of the TRS-80
(1978) became a factor did 16x64 become useable with standard CP/M systems
and software. Of course, one could write one's own drivers, but that was
not a popular solution for most users.
Who built that VDM-1? Was that not a part of some vendor's "set" of
boards?
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: <allisonp(a)world.std.com>
To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Friday, May 19, 2000 8:10 AM
Subject: Re: rescued a beehive!
choice.
> say you're going to need one. Video boards
for the S-100 were not
common
> until much later, with the possible exception of
the SSM VB1, which does
not
provide a
standard 80x24 display.
The "video boards" for S100 were amoung the first third party boards. Most
however were of the VDM-1 style as 64chars x16 lines with the 80x24 being
much later (78ish).
> A TVI 910 or a Lear-Siegler ADM-3A might be a more widely supported
The TVI was a late commer and more likely the early 80s. ADM1/1a/3 were
the most widely supported and second was the Vt52 (or VT52 on vt100) as
many terminals emulated either DEC or ADM.
> I used either a TVI or a Hazeltine Esprit emulating a Hazeltine 1500
most of
the time. I
didn't start using this S-100 stuff until 1977, however.
The Esprit(later) and 1500(earlier) were not that popular. Also the
support on them varied on model (1500, 1520, 1552 or 1400, 1420).
Allison
8:13 a.m.
On Fri, 19 May 2000, Richard Erlacher wrote:
Who built that VDM-1? Was that not a part of some
vendor's "set" of boards?
The VDM-1 (Video Display Module #1) came from Processor Technology and the
circuitry was later integrated into their SOL Terminal Computer.
It was also offered in a 'set' of boards (the name of which escapes me at
the moment) which effectively transormed your Altair/IMSAI into a SOL
(workalike).
The board set consisted of the VDM-1, the CUTS cassette I/O board, a 3P+S
I/O board, and optionally a ROM board (can't think of the designation at
the moment) which held the CUTER/SOLOS 'personality module' ROMS/EPROMS.
If you did not pop for the ROM board, you toggled in a boot loader and
loaded SOLOS/CUTER from tape...
Viola! Insta-SOL!!
-jim
---
jimw(a)computergarage.org || jimw(a)agora.rdrop.com
The Computer Garage - http://www.computergarage.org
Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174
9:03 a.m.
Well, Allison, you're right about the Esprit,
since it didn't come around
until the very late '70's, but it was my choice at that time because (1)
I know, I worked for Haziltine and was part of manufacturing engineering
for terminals then.
compatibility issues under CP/M. Various software
packages had to be
configured specifically for whichever terminal was in use, and being "close"
generally led to trouble.
I know... However, Vt52 was the safest of the lot for emulation as it
was so minimal and widely used/copied. The key was having screen clear,
clear to end of line and gotoxy all were trivial.
The early video boards with 16 lines of 64 characters
weren't supported by
most software vendors at the time. Only after the popularity of the TRS-80
(1978) became a factor did 16x64 become useable with standard CP/M systems
and software. Of course, one could write one's own drivers, but that was
not a popular solution for most users.
Actually 72 lines was more defacto as that was TTY.
Who built that VDM-1? Was that not a part of some
vendor's "set" of boards?
Processor Technology, you could buy it alone and they had other boards as
well all very good. I bought mine(still have it) for the Altair in early
'76 as TTY was noisy and often slow for debugging/editing.
Allison
20 May
20 May
3:59 a.m.
At 07:29 AM 5/19/00 -0600, Richard wrote:
I'm not sure the Beehive terminal is the
best-supported one available, but
if you've any hope of getting your Altair running with "period" hardware,
i.e. with hardware available in the era in which the box was designed, I'd
say you're going to need one.
I already have a ADM-3A that works fine, so I don't need this one. I
find Lear-Siegler terminals all the time.
Video boards for the S-100 were not common
until much later, with the possible exception of the
SSM VB1, which does not
provide a standard 80x24 display.
If this terminal is really unused, it might be worth going through and
swapping the electrolytic caps with some relatively new ones, but it
probably would work well otherwise. 20-year old electrolytics need to be
"re-formed" if they're to work reliably. That involves removing them from
the circuit and gradually cycling them up to peak voltage and current. If
you have to remove them, it makes more sense to replace them rather than to
go through the re-forming process. Some of them may die anyway, due to
tired dielectric.
I have a large Variac that I plug old stuff like this into and I use it
to gradually bring up to full voltage. I start at 10% for a few minnutes,
then go to 20% for 1/2 or so and then step it up another 20% every 1/2
hour. I've had no trouble with shorted caps since I started doing this.
A TVI 910 or a Lear-Siegler ADM-3A might be a more widely supported choice.
I used either a TVI or a Hazeltine Esprit emulating a Hazeltine 1500 most of
the time. I didn't start using this S-100 stuff until 1977, however.
I'd like to find a Hazeltine 1500 for one of the Altairs but the only
ones that I've found so far were in pretty bad shape.
Joe
11 a.m.
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21 May
21 May
5:47 a.m.
At 09:00 PM 5/20/00 +0100, Tony wrote:
You want to be careful doing this. You'll be alright doing it with linear
supplies, but switch-mode supplies are approximately constant _power_
devices and draw more current as the input voltage drops. Some burn out
in an expensive way if you run them off a reasonable fraction (but not
within the documented range) of the normal input voltage.
Hmmm, good point. I haven't done this with a switching PS but you're
probably right about what would happen.
Joe
> >If this terminal is really unused, it might be
worth going through and
> >swapping the electrolytic caps with some relatively new ones, but it
> >probably would work well otherwise. 20-year old electrolytics need to be
> >"re-formed" if they're to work reliably. That involves removing
them from
> >the circuit and gradually cycling them up to peak voltage and current. If
> >you have to remove them, it makes more sense to replace them rather
than
to
go through the re-forming process. Some of them may
die anyway, due to
tired dielectric.
I have a large Variac that I plug old stuff like this into and I use it
to gradually bring up to full voltage. I start at 10% for a few minnutes,
then go to 20% for 1/2 or so and then step it up another 20% every 1/2
hour. I've had no trouble with shorted caps since I started doing this.
9:38 a.m.
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1:18 p.m.
New subject: Lexicomp LC8600, Grid 3800?
I brought home another toy, and left a few behind.
Lexicomp LC8600
Tiny, 1x5x9 inches DOS 5.0 computer with full keyboard and a 1 MB smartcard
removable memory. Made by Sinolog in Tawain, around 1994, these are exUSN,
and come up with some vague military display about incoming and signal
strength, but soon fails when a serial port device doesn't respond. I
brought home one from the ACP swapmeet (lame, nothing new) and left a few
behind.
Grid 3800 laptops, Tandy 1500, I left half a dozen of these behind. They
didn't show up on the Tandy/Grid support site (which looks like it is about
to GO).
Laptops seem to take even more space than a full size computer (I hate to
stack them, so I end up with one or one type to a box and its getting
crowed. I either need to seriously reaarrage
19 May
19 May
8:54 a.m.
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18 May
18 May
5:06 p.m.
Yesterday I picked up one of my more unusual finds,
a Beehive
MicroB
terminal that looks like it's new in the box. See pictures at
"http://www.intellistar.net/~rigdonj/beehive/b4.jpg" through
<snip>
My God... I used to install those things for Western Union!
They were used mainly as library database access terminals (for
the OCLC system) at various universities. I installed at least four at
CSU Hayward, and another half-dozen or so at UC Berkeley.
Does anyone want this? I don't need it and I
don't have room to
keep
Gad... if I had room myself, I'd send a call tag for it.
Unfortunately...
Maybe someone else will pipe up. I can tell you from personal
experience that those things are almost as much of a tank as the
LSI ADM-3A.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Bruce Lane, Owner/Head Honcho,
Blue Feather Technologies (www.bluefeathertech.com)
kyrrin(a)bluefeathertech.com
"SCSI Users, Unite! Beware the IDEs of March!"
8823
days inactive
8826
days old
14 comments
7 participants
participants (7)
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allisonp＠world.std.com -
ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk -
jimw＠agora.rdrop.com -
kyrrin＠bluefeathertech.com -
mikeford＠socal.rr.com -
richard＠idcomm.com -
rigdonj＠intellistar.net