15 Sep
2009
15 Sep
'09
7:13 a.m.
Hi,
its me and my S8000 again ;)
One year ago I managed to get my hands on a S8000 which was in a kinda
bad shape. I made the repairs I was able to do (fixed all 3 PSUs, build a
complete new frontpanel, fixed cut wires). But I'm still looking for
parts which are missing in that sytem:
- harddisk
- a harddisk with a SA1000 interface as well as a so called "FINCH
adapter board" used by Zilog to attach this harddisk to the WDC
controler. It was probably called "FINCH" because the shipped SA1000
harddisk was probably a CDC 9410 Finch, 8", 32MB harddisk. Some
websites lists the 9410 drive as a SMD drive so I'm not sure about
this.
- a harddisk with a SMD interface - but then I would also need the SMD
interface adaptor for the S8000
- there was also a "mini-WDC" adapter which implemented a ST506 interface
for this I would have harddisks... This was used only in later S8000
Plus models.
- tape drive
- the original one was probably a DEI drive. It should have been a
QIC-02/36 type with four tracks and a fixed head (not like the 60MB
drives).
- tape cartridges
- still looking for the diagnostic and the OS cartridges....
- any other hardware ;)
- Paxton Hoag responded 2008 on the list that he saved a whole set of
S8000 boards when the original machine went to scrap - but
unfortunally he never responded back lately :(
If someone is interested in pics of my S8000 - they can be found here:
http://pics.pofo.de/gallery/v/S8000
--
Oliver Lehmann
http://www.pofo.de/
http://wishlist.ans-netz.de/
15 Sep
15 Sep
8:35 a.m.
Hi
I had a similar problem for my Olivetti M20 ( Z8000 based ).
I think it was Tony that pointed out that the TRS80 5Meg hard
disk drive contained an almost identical controller to the SA1000.
For the interface card, I wired up my own on a wire wrap board.
I removed the original drive and put in a ST251 that has a similar
sector/head to what I needed for the M20.
I did have to make minor modifications to the software to use
the auto stepping timing rather than the 10ms steps that the
original Olivetti drive expected. Other than that it worked fine.
How is the memory mapped in the S8000? The Olivetti has one 64K map
that Data and the instruction map to two different physical
memory locations. This seems to be required for the implementation
of CPM-8000 that I have running on the M20.
Dwight
----------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 16:13:40 +0200
From: lehmann at ans-netz.de
To: classiccmp at classiccmp.org
Subject: Zilog System 8000
Hi,
its me and my S8000 again ;)
One year ago I managed to get my hands on a S8000 which was in a kinda
bad shape. I made the repairs I was able to do (fixed all 3 PSUs, build a
complete new frontpanel, fixed cut wires). But I'm still looking for
parts which are missing in that sytem:
- harddisk
- a harddisk with a SA1000 interface as well as a so called "FINCH
adapter board" used by Zilog to attach this harddisk to the WDC
controler. It was probably called "FINCH" because the shipped SA1000
harddisk was probably a CDC 9410 Finch, 8", 32MB harddisk. Some
websites lists the 9410 drive as a SMD drive so I'm not sure about
this.
- a harddisk with a SMD interface - but then I would also need the SMD
interface adaptor for the S8000
- there was also a "mini-WDC" adapter which implemented a ST506 interface
for this I would have harddisks... This was used only in later S8000
Plus models.
- tape drive
- the original one was probably a DEI drive. It should have been a
QIC-02/36 type with four tracks and a fixed head (not like the 60MB
drives).
- tape cartridges
- still looking for the diagnostic and the OS cartridges....
- any other hardware ;)
- Paxton Hoag responded 2008 on the list that he saved a whole set of
S8000 boards when the original machine went to scrap - but
unfortunally he never responded back lately :(
If someone is interested in pics of my S8000 - they can be found here:
http://pics.pofo.de/gallery/v/S8000
--
Oliver Lehmann
http://www.pofo.de/
http://wishlist.ans-netz.de/
_________________________________________________________________
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9:46 a.m.
Hi,
dwight elvey wrote:
I removed the original drive and put in a ST251 that
has a similar
sector/head to what I needed for the M20.
That might work here as well but I probably would still need some kind of
adapter board because even the SA1000 harddisk is not attached directly
to the controller but to a so called "FINCH adapter board" which itself
is connected to the controller. Unfortunally I have no idea how that
adapter board looks like nor do I have the schematics.
How is the memory mapped in the S8000? The Olivetti
has one 64K map
that Data and the instruction map to two different physical
memory locations. This seems to be required for the implementation
of CPM-8000 that I have running on the M20.
The system comes with 1MB DRAM and it uses 3 MMUs. all three are used in
the non-segmented operation mode of the Z8001 as code, data and stack
MMU (one 64K segment only). In the segmented operation mode, two MMUs are
used to access 128 possible memory segments of 64K.
--
Oliver Lehmann
http://www.pofo.de/
http://wishlist.ans-netz.de/
6:31 p.m.
----------------------------------------
From: lehmann at ans-netz.de
Hi,
dwight elvey wrote:
Hi
I think that should work. As I recall, the BIOS operations all
switched to the non-segmented mode in specific segements as
required. When actually running CP/M-8000, it was running
in the segemented mode ( as I recall ). An application might
run in either mode.
To load instructions, it mapped both instruction and data into
the same physical space and then switched to another segement
of the processor to run the 128K mapped space.
The assembler that came with the M20 always assumed you were in
the segemented mode and didn't even have the option of non-segemented.
The assembler in CP/M-8000 allowed both modes so I'm not sure
how it was expected to be managed.
Dwight
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I removed the original drive and put in a ST251
that has a similar
sector/head to what I needed for the M20.
That might work here as well but I probably would still need some kind of
adapter board because even the SA1000 harddisk is not attached directly
to the controller but to a so called "FINCH adapter board" which itself
is connected to the controller. Unfortunally I have no idea how that
adapter board looks like nor do I have the schematics.
How is the memory mapped in the S8000? The
Olivetti has one 64K map
that Data and the instruction map to two different physical
memory locations. This seems to be required for the implementation
of CPM-8000 that I have running on the M20.
The system comes with 1MB DRAM and it uses 3 MMUs. all three are used in
the non-segmented operation mode of the Z8001 as code, data and stack
MMU (one 64K segment only). In the segmented operation mode, two MMUs are
used to access 128 possible memory segments of 64K.
1:13 p.m.
I had a similar problem for my Olivetti M20 ( Z8000
based ).
I think it was Tony that pointed out that the TRS80 5Meg hard
disk drive contained an almost identical controller to the SA1000.
For the interface card=2C I wired up my own on a wire wrap board.
Err, aren't you confusing the WD1000 series controllers (which were used
in the TRS-80 drive boxes) with the SA1000 8" winchester drive, which has
a 'raw' interface, IIRC on a single 50 pin connector?
-tony
6:03 p.m.
----------------------------------------
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk
Subject: Re: Zilog System 8000
To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 21:13:17 +0100
Hi TOny
You are correct. The way it read to me was that it was a
WD1000 type controller, not that it was actually a SA1000
disk because he specified a specific disk type.
Maybe the OP can be more specific.
Dwight
_________________________________________________________________
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I had a similar problem for my Olivetti M20 (
Z8000 based ).
I think it was Tony that pointed out that the TRS80 5Meg hard
disk drive contained an almost identical controller to the SA1000.
For the interface card=2C I wired up my own on a wire wrap board.
Err, aren't you confusing the WD1000 series controllers (which were used
in the TRS-80 drive boxes) with the SA1000 8" winchester drive, which has
a 'raw' interface, IIRC on a single 50 pin connector?
-tony
16 Sep
16 Sep
1:15 a.m.
dwight elvey wrote:
Hi TOny
You are correct. The way it read to me was that it was a
WD1000 type controller, not that it was actually a SA1000
disk because he specified a specific disk type.
Maybe the OP can be more specific.
Dwight
There is a hardware reference manual here:
http://bitsavers.org/pdf/zilog/s8000/03-3237-04_hwRef_Dec82.pdf
- On page 32 you'll see the specifications of the shipped 33MB Winchester
drive
- On page 47 you'll see the signals of the WDC controller listed which
are attached to the so called "FINCH adapter board".
- On the pages 65-67 you'll see how this harddisk has to be attached to
the FINCH adapter board and how this is to be connected to the WDC
controller.
- On the pages 109-119 you'll find the theory of operation..
From the figure on page 65 I assume, that it is a SA100
interface.
--
Oliver Lehmann
http://www.pofo.de/
http://wishlist.ans-netz.de/
1:24 a.m.
Oliver Lehmann wrote:
- On the pages 109-119 you'll find the theory of
operation..
The passage on page 112 is interesting:
"The disk controller can control either a CDC or Finch drives". So maybe
only for the "Finch" drives the FINCH adapter board is needed? But what
is a CDC drive then. without the adapter board the 40pin Command/Data
Connector from the WDC Controller must be attached directly to the
harddisk - But I know no interface consists only of one 40pin connector
(except PATA ;))
If wanted I can find out the signals of this 40pin connector because the
signal listing on page 47 is the listing of the 96pin internal WDC
controller connector. This gets changed onto a 30pin connector later.
--
Oliver Lehmann
http://www.pofo.de/
http://wishlist.ans-netz.de/
7:05 a.m.
----------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 10:15:17 +0200
From: lehmann at ans-netz.de
To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
Subject: Re: Zilog System 8000
dwight elvey wrote:
Hi Oliver
Well, it is not just a WD1000 controller connected to the bus
with a bus buffer. The address register tells me that it is a
DMA controller. Although, the WD1000 controller can be connected
to a DMA controller, it can also be used in a polled mode.
You'd need to build a smart interface between the WD1000 and
the S8000 bus. It could be done with some PIC or other small
uP. You'd still need to build the DMA controller.
Dwight
_________________________________________________________________
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Hi TOny
You are correct. The way it read to me was that it was a
WD1000 type controller, not that it was actually a SA1000
disk because he specified a specific disk type.
Maybe the OP can be more specific.
Dwight
There is a hardware reference manual here:
http://bitsavers.org/pdf/zilog/s8000/03-3237-04_hwRef_Dec82.pdf
- On page 32 you'll see the specifications of the shipped 33MB Winchester
drive
- On page 47 you'll see the signals of the WDC controller listed which
are attached to the so called "FINCH adapter board".
- On the pages 65-67 you'll see how this harddisk has to be attached to
the FINCH adapter board and how this is to be connected to the WDC
controller.
- On the pages 109-119 you'll find the theory of operation..
From the figure on page 65 I assume, that it is a
SA100 interface.
8:08 a.m.
dwight elvey wrote:
Hi
Oliver
Well, it is not just a WD1000 controller connected to the bus
with a bus buffer. The address register tells me that it is a
DMA controller. Although, the WD1000 controller can be connected
to a DMA controller, it can also be used in a polled mode.
You'd need to build a smart interface between the WD1000 and
the S8000 bus. It could be done with some PIC or other small
uP. You'd still need to build the DMA controller.
Dwight
It is a selfmade WDC Controller using a Z80 for the calculation and so
on. If I cannot get my hands on a propper disk I might replace the whole
controller with a controller which access a IDE disk or similar. But
before I consider this, I need the tape part and the cartriges. Without
them I don't need any harddisk - I just don't have the ZEUS-OS which I
want to run on it ;)
--
Oliver Lehmann
http://www.pofo.de/
http://wishlist.ans-netz.de/
17 Sep
17 Sep
10:20 p.m.
The 8mb Primary HDD (if I am remembering correctly) has a SASI interface to
SA1000 bridge board and the HD was a SA1000 interface drive, the 4mb and 8mb
used 8" HDD's, the 5, 10 and 15 used MFM drives, with a SASI? to MFM
bridgeboard.
I used to have a model-16 with Xenix with a 4MB and 8MB HDD
On 9/15/09 8:35 AM, "dwight elvey" <dkelvey at hotmail.com> wrote:
Hi
I had a similar problem for my Olivetti M20 ( Z8000 based ).
I think it was Tony that pointed out that the TRS80 5Meg hard
disk drive contained an almost identical controller to the SA1000.
For the interface card, I wired up my own on a wire wrap board.
I removed the original drive and put in a ST251 that has a similar
sector/head to what I needed for the M20.
I did have to make minor modifications to the software to use
the auto stepping timing rather than the 10ms steps that the
original Olivetti drive expected. Other than that it worked fine.
How is the memory mapped in the S8000? The Olivetti has one 64K map
that Data and the instruction map to two different physical
memory locations. This seems to be required for the implementation
of CPM-8000 that I have running on the M20.
Dwight
----------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 16:13:40 +0200
From: lehmann at ans-netz.de
To: classiccmp at classiccmp.org
Subject: Zilog System 8000
Hi,
its me and my S8000 again ;)
One year ago I managed to get my hands on a S8000 which was in a kinda
bad shape. I made the repairs I was able to do (fixed all 3 PSUs, build a
complete new frontpanel, fixed cut wires). But I'm still looking for
parts which are missing in that sytem:
- harddisk
- a harddisk with a SA1000 interface as well as a so called "FINCH
adapter board" used by Zilog to attach this harddisk to the WDC
controler. It was probably called "FINCH" because the shipped SA1000
harddisk was probably a CDC 9410 Finch, 8", 32MB harddisk. Some
websites lists the 9410 drive as a SMD drive so I'm not sure about
this.
- a harddisk with a SMD interface - but then I would also need the SMD
interface adaptor for the S8000
- there was also a "mini-WDC" adapter which implemented a ST506 interface
for this I would have harddisks... This was used only in later S8000
Plus models.
- tape drive
- the original one was probably a DEI drive. It should have been a
QIC-02/36 type with four tracks and a fixed head (not like the 60MB
drives).
- tape cartridges
- still looking for the diagnostic and the OS cartridges....
- any other hardware ;)
- Paxton Hoag responded 2008 on the list that he saved a whole set of
S8000 boards when the original machine went to scrap - but
unfortunally he never responded back lately :(
If someone is interested in pics of my S8000 - they can be found here:
http://pics.pofo.de/gallery/v/S8000
--
Oliver Lehmann
http://www.pofo.de/
http://wishlist.ans-netz.de/
_________________________________________________________________
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INA_Health_Health_PetAllergy_1x1
19 Sep
19 Sep
8:39 a.m.
Oliver Lehmann wrote:
- tape drive
- the original one was probably a DEI drive. It should have been a
QIC-02/36 type with four tracks and a fixed head (not like the 60MB
drives).
I now got parts of the original tape drive. A DEI. MN is 3447-44ABCDEF-S2
and PN is 301091. Anyone knows something about that drive? The motor is
probably broken. it is a Astro Mec Motors Inc. P/N C66-24?? (No idea the
label is partly removed)
--
Oliver Lehmann
http://www.pofo.de/
http://wishlist.ans-netz.de/
10:15 a.m.
Oliver Lehmann wrote:
Oliver Lehmann wrote:
It is now clear, that is is a tape drive like described in
http://bitsavers.org/pdf/dei/CMTD-3400S2_4tk6400bpi_1979.pdf
Does someone still have such a DEI tape drive in a working condition?
--
Oliver Lehmann
http://www.pofo.de/
http://wishlist.ans-netz.de/
- tape drive
- the original one was probably a DEI drive. It should have been a
QIC-02/36 type with four tracks and a fixed head (not like the 60MB
drives).
I now got parts of the original tape drive. A DEI. MN is 3447-44ABCDEF-S2
and PN is 301091. Anyone knows something about that drive? The motor is
probably broken. it is a Astro Mec Motors Inc. P/N C66-24?? (No idea the
label is partly removed)
5574
days inactive
5578
days old
12 comments
4 participants
participants (4)
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ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk -
dkelvey＠hotmail.com -
geoffr＠zipcon.net -
lehmann＠ans-netz.de