4 Jun
2015
4 Jun
'15
1:47 p.m.
Hi
I have multiple DEC Runoff (.rno extension) files for the manual on DEC's
MSCP protocol. I'd like to convert them to a modern format. The manual is
dated circa 1992 incorporating ecos thru MSCP23-4 and is revision 2.4 (or
later) of MSCP. What appears to be an early version (Apr 1982 rev 1.2) is
at
http://www.textfiles.com/bitsavers/pdf/dec/disc/UDA50/AA-L619A-TK_MSCP_basFn
s_82.pdf
I've searched for a convertor without much luck, there is a VMS Pascal
converter at https://www.ctan.org/tex-archive/support/rnototex which
converts to LaTex which can then be converted to pdf, but I don't have any
DEC equipment.
Anyone know of a converter or perhaps other already converted manuals at
other revision levels (e.g. rev 1.2 at link above)?
If not, anyone running VMS Pascal or OpenVMS v6.1 (or later) willing to try
a conversion to LaTex?
DECs Runoff is a markup language that sort of looks like an early HTML, so I
suppose I could try a grep conversion to HTML, or just strip out the markup.
Any other ideas?
Tom
4 Jun
4 Jun
3:10 p.m.
I can build the converter in pascal and run it against the files if it
helps? Regards Mark
On 4 Jun 2015 20:06, "Tom Gardner" <t.gardner at computer.org> wrote:
Hi
I have multiple DEC Runoff (.rno extension) files for the manual on DEC's
MSCP protocol. I'd like to convert them to a modern format. The manual is
dated circa 1992 incorporating ecos thru MSCP23-4 and is revision 2.4 (or
later) of MSCP. What appears to be an early version (Apr 1982 rev 1.2) is
at
http://www.textfiles.com/bitsavers/pdf/dec/disc/UDA50/AA-L619A-TK_MSCP_basFn
s_82.pdf
I've searched for a convertor without much luck, there is a VMS Pascal
converter at https://www.ctan.org/tex-archive/support/rnototex which
converts to LaTex which can then be converted to pdf, but I don't have any
DEC equipment.
Anyone know of a converter or perhaps other already converted manuals at
other revision levels (e.g. rev 1.2 at link above)?
If not, anyone running VMS Pascal or OpenVMS v6.1 (or later) willing to
try
a conversion to LaTex?
DECs Runoff is a markup language that sort of looks like an early HTML, so
I
suppose I could try a grep conversion to HTML, or just strip out the
markup.
Any other ideas?
Tom
3:17 p.m.
On Jun 4, 2015, at 1:47 PM, Tom Gardner <t.gardner
at computer.org> wrote:
Hi
I have multiple DEC Runoff (.rno extension) files for the manual on DEC's
MSCP protocol. I'd like to convert them to a modern format. The manual is
dated circa 1992 incorporating ecos thru MSCP23-4 and is revision 2.4 (or
later) of MSCP. What appears to be an early version (Apr 1982 rev 1.2) is
at
http://www.textfiles.com/bitsavers/pdf/dec/disc/UDA50/AA-L619A-TK_MSCP_basFn
s_82.pdf
I've searched for a convertor without much luck, there is a VMS Pascal
converter at https://www.ctan.org/tex-archive/support/rnototex which
converts to LaTex which can then be converted to pdf, but I don't have any
DEC equipment.
There are Pascal compilers for Unix, for example gpc. It has its limitations but it may
be sufficient.
...
DECs Runoff is a markup language that sort of looks like an early HTML, so I
suppose I could try a grep conversion to HTML, or just strip out the markup.
A much closer relative is Unix ?troff? format, which apparently goes back to something in
Multics called ?runoff?. Fancy that. So you might dig up a troff manual (here?s one:
http://www.troff.org/54.pdf) and convert to that. It looks like that wouldn?t be hard.
paul
3:51 p.m.
On 04/06/2015 20:17, Paul Koning wrote:
> DECs Runoff is a markup language that sort of
looks like an early
> HTML, so I suppose I could try a grep conversion to HTML, or just
> strip out the markup.
A much closer relative is Unix ?troff? format, which
apparently goes
back to something in Multics called ?runoff?. Fancy that. So you
might dig up a troff manual (here?s one: http://www.troff.org/54.pdf)
and convert to that. It looks like that wouldn?t be hard.
runoff is pretty simple, so a converter shouldn't be hard to do. You
might look for Unix roff, which begat nroff/troff.
--
Pete
Pete Turnbull
3:53 p.m.
Someone (possibly me) surely can process the files with dec runoff
directly? Doesnt it support postscript output?
On 4 Jun 2015 20:52, "Pete Turnbull" <pete at dunnington.plus.com> wrote:
On 04/06/2015 20:17, Paul Koning wrote:
DECs Runoff is a markup language that sort of looks like an early
A much closer relative is Unix ?troff? format, which apparently goes
HTML, so
I suppose I could try a grep conversion to HTML, or just
strip out the markup.
back to something in Multics called ?runoff?.
Fancy that. So you
might dig up a troff manual (here?s one: http://www.troff.org/54.pdf)
and convert to that. It looks like that wouldn?t be hard.
runoff is pretty simple, so a converter shouldn't be hard to do. You
might look for Unix roff, which begat nroff/troff.
--
Pete
Pete Turnbull
4:22 p.m.
I wouldn't mind running a file through runoff either, or building the
Pascal code that was mentioned. It would be a good excuse to do something
with one of my machines.
Regards
Rob
On 4 June 2015 at 20:53, Mark Wickens <mark at wickensonline.co.uk> wrote:
Someone (possibly me) surely can process the files
with dec runoff
directly? Doesnt it support postscript output?
On 4 Jun 2015 20:52, "Pete Turnbull" <pete at dunnington.plus.com>
wrote:
On 04/06/2015 20:17, Paul Koning wrote:
DECs Runoff is a markup language that sort of looks like an early
A much closer relative is Unix ?troff? format, which apparently goes
HTML, so
I suppose I could try a grep conversion to HTML, or just
strip out the markup.
back to something in Multics called ?runoff?.
Fancy that. So you
might dig up a troff manual (here?s one: http://www.troff.org/54.pdf)
and convert to that. It looks like that wouldn?t be hard.
runoff is pretty simple, so a converter shouldn't be hard to do. You
might look for Unix roff, which begat nroff/troff.
--
Pete
Pete Turnbull
4:25 p.m.
On Jun 4, 2015, at 3:53 PM, Mark Wickens <mark at
wickensonline.co.uk> wrote:
Someone (possibly me) surely can process the files with dec runoff
directly? Doesnt it support postscript output?
Not any version I have ever seen; they all produce plain lineprinter output (with
overprinting for things like underlining). You can of course take the formatted output
and run it through a simple postprocessor like pstext.
Some versions of troff can produce PostScript (current Linux or Darwin ones, for example)
so if you can do runoff->troff then you have a direct path to PostScript. But you?re
right, if someone would offer to run an actual RUNOFF on the sources, that would be a good
approach. I could do it on a RSTS system, which might work provided the source doesn?t
use VMS-specific Runoff features.
paul
4:58 p.m.
Paul Koning wrote:
I've just took a look at the (Open)VMS Alpha 8.2 system in front of me and
it appears RUNOFF comes installed with the OS.
The online help says it can produce output for an LN01, LN01E or LN03.
While these are laser printers, as far as I know, they are nothing like
postscript printers. I did a quick test and the output looks to me like 8 bit
ANSI escape sequences and text.
Regards,
Peter Coghlan.
On Jun 4, 2015, at 3:53 PM, Mark Wickens <mark
at wickensonline.co.uk> wrote:
Someone (possibly me) surely can process the files with dec runoff
directly? Doesnt it support postscript output?
Not any version I have ever seen; they all produce plain lineprinter output
(with overprinting for things like underlining). You can of course take the
formatted output and run it through a simple postprocessor like pstext.
Some versions of troff can produce PostScript (current Linux or Darwin ones,
for example) so if you can do runoff->troff then you have a direct path to
PostScript. But you?re right, if someone would offer to run an actual
RUNOFF on the sources, that would be a good approach. I could do it on a
RSTS system, which might work provided the source doesn?t use VMS-specific
Runoff features.
6:49 p.m.
There is also this:
http://www.decuslib.com/decus/vax87c/clement/runoff/aaareadme.1st
Bonner Lab Runoff (RNO)
Bonner Lab Runoff is a text formatter that, when used with your favorite
editor, makes a complete word processor. Its syntax is almost a complete
emulation of DSR (Digital Standard Runoff) and it is very compatible with
previous versions of Runoff. The document and help file for this version
can also be used for DSR. The intent of this program is to support com-
plete scientific word processing to produce publication quality output.
It has been used to produce thesis, progress reports, and scientific pa-
pers here at Rice University.
This version allows complete control of any special printer available via
user definable escape sequences. In addition a macro facility allows
text or sequences of commands to be abbreviated to a single label. If
the printer has the correct features, then variable spacing,subscripting,
superscripting, and equation formatting are possible. By properly defin-
ing escape sequences the user can support different printers in a tran-
sparent fashion. In other words the same input text will print in
identical fashion on different printers with different control codes and
escape sequences.
All written in glorious MACRO!
Mark.
On 04/06/15 21:58, Peter Coghlan wrote:
Paul Koning wrote:
I've just took a look at the (Open)VMS Alpha 8.2 system in front of me and
it appears RUNOFF comes installed with the OS.
The online help says it can produce output for an LN01, LN01E or LN03.
While these are laser printers, as far as I know, they are nothing like
postscript printers. I did a quick test and the output looks to me like 8 bit
ANSI escape sequences and text.
Regards,
Peter Coghlan.
On Jun 4,
2015, at 3:53 PM, Mark Wickens <mark at wickensonline.co.uk> wrote:
Someone (possibly me) surely can process the files with dec runoff
directly? Doesnt it support postscript output?
Not any version I have ever seen;
they all produce plain lineprinter output
(with overprinting for things like underlining). You can of course take the
formatted output and run it through a simple postprocessor like pstext.
Some versions of troff can produce PostScript (current Linux or Darwin ones,
for example) so if you can do runoff->troff then you have a direct path to
PostScript. But you?re right, if someone would offer to run an actual
RUNOFF on the sources, that would be a good approach. I could do it on a
RSTS system, which might work provided the source doesn?t use VMS-specific
Runoff features.
8:21 p.m.
On Thu, Jun 04, 2015 at 11:49:39PM +0100, Mark Wickens wrote:
Bonner Lab Runoff (RNO)
To give you an idea of the age of this software, Bonner Lab at Rice
was demolished in 1994 make way for a "modern" computer science building.
See http://ricehistorycorner.com/2011/08/11/1694/
I doubt the contact information will still work :-)
(BITNET? <shiver>)
They had an IBM 1800 in it which they decomissioned in the late 70s.
mcl
p.s. apparently the name of the building lives on as a description of
another facility.
5:01 p.m.
If it produces DEC/ANSI escape codes I have a converter that will turn
it into HTML?
On 04/06/15 21:25, Paul Koning wrote:
On Jun 4,
2015, at 3:53 PM, Mark Wickens <mark at wickensonline.co.uk> wrote:
Someone (possibly me) surely can process the files with dec runoff
directly? Doesnt it support postscript output?
Not any version I have ever seen;
they all produce plain lineprinter output (with overprinting for things like underlining).
You can of course take the formatted output and run it through a simple postprocessor
like pstext.
Some versions of troff can produce PostScript (current Linux or Darwin ones, for example)
so if you can do runoff->troff then you have a direct path to PostScript. But you?re
right, if someone would offer to run an actual RUNOFF on the sources, that would be a good
approach. I could do it on a RSTS system, which might work provided the source doesn?t
use VMS-specific Runoff features.
paul
7:40 p.m.
No escape codes. Just text, and return without line feed to overprint one line on
another, to do underlining. If you don?t use underlines, the text is just plain text,
suitable for viewing with ?cat? or ?more?.
paul
On Jun 4, 2015, at 5:01 PM, Mark Wickens <mark at
wickensonline.co.uk> wrote:
If it produces DEC/ANSI escape codes I have a converter that will turn it into HTML?
On 04/06/15 21:25, Paul Koning wrote:
On Jun 4,
2015, at 3:53 PM, Mark Wickens <mark at wickensonline.co.uk> wrote:
Someone (possibly me) surely can process the files with dec runoff
directly? Doesnt it support postscript output?
Not any version I have ever seen;
they all produce plain lineprinter output (with overprinting for things like underlining).
You can of course take the formatted output and run it through a simple postprocessor
like pstext.
Some versions of troff can produce PostScript (current Linux or Darwin ones, for example)
so if you can do runoff->troff then you have a direct path to PostScript. But you?re
right, if someone would offer to run an actual RUNOFF on the sources, that would be a good
approach. I could do it on a RSTS system, which might work provided the source doesn?t
use VMS-specific Runoff features.
paul
5 Jun
5 Jun
5:02 p.m.
On Thu, 4 Jun 2015, Paul Koning wrote:
No escape codes. Just text, and return without line
feed to overprint one
line on another, to do underlining. If you don???t use underlines, the
text is just plain text, suitable for viewing with ???cat??? or
???more???.
But not:
$ TYPE /PAGE
Perhaps? :)
--
Richard Loken VE6BSV, Unix System Administrator : "Anybody can be a father
Athabasca University : but you have to earn
Athabasca, Alberta Canada : the title of 'daddy'"
** richardlo at admin.athabascau.ca ** : - Lynn Johnston
6:49 p.m.
From: Tom Gardner
Sent: Thursday, June 04, 2015 10:47 AM
I have multiple DEC Runoff (.rno extension) files for
the manual on DEC's
MSCP protocol. I'd like to convert them to a modern format. The manual is
dated circa 1992 incorporating ecos thru MSCP23-4 and is revision 2.4 (or
later) of MSCP. What appears to be an early version (Apr 1982 rev 1.2) is
at
I've searched for a convertor without much luck,
there is a VMS Pascal
converter at https://www.ctan.org/tex-archive/support/rnototex which
converts to LaTex which can then be converted to pdf, but I don't have any
DEC equipment.
You can open an account on the VAX running VMS 7.3* at Living Computer Museum
and run the converter program there, then run pdflatex on a PC to get the final
output directly.
Just another option.
Rich
* The "Open" is silent.
Rich Alderson
Vintage Computing Sr. Systems Engineer
Living Computer Museum
2245 1st Avenue S
Seattle, WA 98134
mailto:RichA at LivingComputerMuseum.org
http://www.LivingComputerMuseum.org/
3369
days inactive
3370
days old
14 comments
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participants (10)
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cctalk＠beyondthepale.ie -
drb＠msu.edu -
linimon＠lonesome.com -
mark＠wickensonline.co.uk -
paulkoning＠comcast.net -
pete＠dunnington.plus.com -
RichA＠LivingComputerMuseum.org -
richardlo＠admin.athabascau.ca -
robert.jarratt＠ntlworld.com -
t.gardner＠computer.org