3 Aug
1999
3 Aug
'99
10:08 p.m.
I need the following word defined/confirmed....
Hacker
According to my dictionary, 'hack' means "to chop with exceptional
force",
"a violent cough", or "a horse let out out for common hire"...
Same dictionary... 'hacker' "one who hacks" (no - really?....), or
'a person
who is inexperienced or unskilled at a particular activity' example is "A
Polo hacker".
I wonder which antique store I bought that dictionary from... :)
Here's my definition: "One who adapts an existing piece of computer (or
other type) of hardware to suit one's needs or to improve it without
instruction from the original manufacturer."
I also thought that the people who screwed with viruses and software and
such were "crackers" (which my dictionary describes as a 'dry, thin bread
substance").
Am I right? or am I just blowing smoke?
ThAnX,
///--->>>
-Jason Willgruber
(roblwill(a)usaor.net)
ICQ#: 1730318
<http://members.tripod.com/general_1>
PS>> The reason I wanted to know was because I was going to make a web page
on a couple of old serial cards that I'm making into direct-connect modems
to use on a few computer that don't have HD's, and I'm just not sure what it
would be classified as!
3 Aug
3 Aug
5:01 p.m.
On 4 Aug 99 at 0:08, Jason (the General) wrote:
I need the following word defined/confirmed....
Hacker
According to my dictionary, 'hack' means "to chop with exceptional
force",
"a violent cough", or "a horse let out out for common hire"...
Same dictionary... 'hacker' "one who hacks" (no - really?....), or
'a person
who is inexperienced or unskilled at a particular activity' example is "A
Polo hacker".
I wonder which antique store I bought that dictionary from... :)
Here's my definition: "One who adapts an existing piece of computer (or
other type) of hardware to suit one's needs or to improve it without
instruction from the original manufacturer."
I also thought that the people who screwed with viruses and software and
such were "crackers" (which my dictionary describes as a 'dry, thin bread
substance").
Am I right? or am I just blowing smoke?
"Crackers" to me are people who crack code whether source in programs
or
encoded messages in encryption. An excellent novel that escapes my mind by "
Thomas Tryon ?" about decoders in Britian during WW ll comes to mind ( very
simplified description ).
ThAnX,
///--->>>
-Jason Willgruber
(roblwill(a)usaor.net)
ICQ#: 1730318
<http://members.tripod.com/general_1>
PS>> The reason I wanted to know was because I was going to make a web page
on a couple of old serial cards that I'm making into direct-connect modems
to use on a few computer that don't have HD's, and I'm just not sure what it
would be classified as!
lwalker(a)interlog.com
Let us know of your upcoming computer events for our Events Page.
t3c(a)xoommail.com
Vintage Computer Collectors List and info http://members.xoom.com/T3C
5:43 p.m.
Date: Wed, 4 Aug 1999 02:01:35 +0000
Reply-to: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu
From: "Lawrence Walker" <lwalker(a)mail.interlog.com>
To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers"
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: Difinition confirmation (please read)...
On 4 Aug 99 at 0:08, Jason (the General) wrote:
> I need the following word defined/confirmed....
>
> Hacker
Excuse me with this gross snipping...
Hack is the word.
Hacker is the person doing something specific in relation on
specific type of action or description.
Also this "hack" thing have to be in context to specific items and
what is being acted on or described about.
That is about all.
what is the problem because reporters is not caught making negative
work on the "hack" thing (right, I left 'er' out to express in
general) where correct choices of words would do right and cracker is
about right I think.
Wizard
4 Aug
4 Aug
3:24 a.m.
You might also read The Broken Seal by Ladislaw Farago about breaking the
Japanese codes.
On Wed, 4 Aug 1999, Lawrence Walker wrote:
On 4 Aug 99 at 0:08, Jason (the General) wrote:
M. K. Peirce
Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc.
215 Shady Lea Road,
North Kingstown, RI 02852
"Casta est qui nemo rogavit."
- Ovid
I need the following word defined/confirmed....
Hacker
According to my dictionary, 'hack' means "to chop with exceptional
force",
"a violent cough", or "a horse let out out for common hire"...
Same dictionary... 'hacker' "one who hacks" (no - really?....), or
'a person
who is inexperienced or unskilled at a particular activity' example is "A
Polo hacker".
I wonder which antique store I bought that dictionary from... :)
Here's my definition: "One who adapts an existing piece of computer (or
other type) of hardware to suit one's needs or to improve it without
instruction from the original manufacturer."
I also thought that the people who screwed with viruses and software and
such were "crackers" (which my dictionary describes as a 'dry, thin bread
substance").
Am I right? or am I just blowing smoke?
"Crackers" to me are people who crack code whether source in programs
or
encoded messages in encryption. An excellent novel that escapes my mind by "
Thomas Tryon ?" about decoders in Britian during WW ll comes to mind ( very
simplified description ).
ThAnX,
///--->>>
-Jason Willgruber
(roblwill(a)usaor.net)
ICQ#: 1730318
<http://members.tripod.com/general_1>
PS>> The reason I wanted to know was because I was going to make a web page
on a couple of old serial cards that I'm making into direct-connect modems
to use on a few computer that don't have HD's, and I'm just not sure what it
would be classified as!
lwalker(a)interlog.com
Let us know of your upcoming computer events for our Events Page.
t3c(a)xoommail.com
Vintage Computer Collectors List and info http://members.xoom.com/T3C
3 Aug
3 Aug
7:28 p.m.
On Wed, 04 Aug 1999, Jason (the General) wrote:
Here's my definition: "One who adapts an
existing piece of computer (or
other type) of hardware to suit one's needs or to improve it without
instruction from the original manufacturer."
I've always felt that a "hacker" is the type of person who does amazing
things...sometimes unusual things...with computers, perhaps making them do more
than they were originally designed to do, making them jump through hoops,
existing in a very symbiotic relationship with them...because that's what they
love to do, and choose to do with their time.
I gather that most of the folks on this list would fall into that category.
-Dave McGuire
4 Aug
4 Aug
1:58 a.m.
On Wed, 04 Aug 1999, Jason (the General) wrote:
>Here's my definition: "One who adapts an existing piece of computer (or
>other type) of hardware to suit one's needs or to improve it without
>instruction from the original manufacturer."
AFAIK hacker comes from the journalism term "hack" writer. Basically a
person who just sits down and starts banging keys without a plan etc. A non
professional, even if they do have a fair amount of talent.
Something of an insult, which I think just carried over to calling any type
of computer misfit a hacker.
Crackers were people who cracked the software protection on a product,
often then uploading the "cracked" version with a splash page showing their
"name" to pirate BBSs.
Phreakers did stuff with the phones.
7:14 a.m.
On Wed, 4 Aug 1999, Mike Ford wrote:
AFAIK hacker comes from the journalism term
"hack" writer. Basically a
person who just sits down and starts banging keys without a plan etc. A non
professional, even if they do have a fair amount of talent.
Something of an insult, which I think just carried over to calling any type
of computer misfit a hacker.
No, the term was being used by computer dorks and the media picked up on
it when they started to report on computer misfits doing mischievous
things.
Crackers were people who cracked the software
protection on a product,
often then uploading the "cracked" version with a splash page showing their
"name" to pirate BBSs.
I called these guys "pirates".
Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Don't rub the lamp if you don't want the genie to come out.
Coming this October 2-3: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0!
See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
[Last web site update: 05/25/99]
9:14 a.m.
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3 Aug
3 Aug
7:45 p.m.
On Wed, 4 Aug 1999, Jason (the General) wrote:
I need the following word defined/confirmed....
Hacker
According to my dictionary, 'hack' means "to chop with exceptional
force",
"a violent cough", or "a horse let out out for common hire"...
Same dictionary... 'hacker' "one who hacks" (no - really?....), or
'a person
who is inexperienced or unskilled at a particular activity' example is "A
Polo hacker".
Here's what The Hacker's Dictionary defines it as:
"hacker: [originally, someone who makes furniture with an axe] n.
1. A person who enjoys exploring the details of programmable
systems and how to stretch their capabilities, as opposed to most
users, who prefer to learn only the minimum necessary. 2. One who
programs enthusiastically (even obsessively) or who enjoys
programming rather than just theorizing about programming. 3. A
person capable of appreciating {hack value}. 4. A person who is
good at programming quickly. 5. An expert at a particular program,
or one who frequently does work using it or on it; as in `a UNIX
hacker'. (Definitions 1 through 5 are correlated, and people who fit
them congregate.) 6. An expert or enthusiast of any kind. One
might be an astronomy hacker, for example. 7. One who enjoys the
intellectual challenge of creatively overcoming or circumventing
limitations. 8. [deprecated] A malicious meddler who tries to
discover sensitive information by poking around. Hence `password
hacker', `network hacker'. See {cracker}.
It is better to be described as a hacker by others than to describe
oneself that way. Hackers consider themselves something of an
elite (a meritocracy based on ability), though one to which new
members are gladly welcome. There is thus a certain ego
satisfaction to be had in identifying yourself as a hacker (but if
you claim to be one and are not, you'll quickly be labeled
{bogus})."
(from http://codeflux.com/hacker/?query=hacker)
I think this is a very good definition.
Here's my definition: "One who adapts an
existing piece of computer (or
other type) of hardware to suit one's needs or to improve it without
instruction from the original manufacturer."
This is also a functional definition, but a subset of the overall
definition of a "hacker".
Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Don't rub the lamp if you don't want the genie to come out.
Coming this October 2-3: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0!
See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
[Last web site update: 05/25/99]
4 Aug
4 Aug
3:24 a.m.
I wonder which antique store I bought that dictionary
from... :)
Here's my definition: "One who adapts an existing piece of computer (or
other type) of hardware to suit one's needs or to improve it without
instruction from the original manufacturer."
Orginal: Hacker
Very close the polo hacker example. The early computer "hackers" were
often people either not trained in technical sicesnces or specifically not
in computer sciences that were attempting to make computers do so task
they desired or envisioned. In that context I clearly was on in the 8008
and early 8080 days as who could take college courses that didn't yet
exist on microcomputer design and programming.
In later years it would be perverted into the form we know now that
referes to a non expert(?) whos goal it is to undermine computers
generally not their own.
I also thought that the people who screwed with
viruses and software and
such were "crackers" (which my dictionary describes as a 'dry, thin bread
substance").
That term was used at one time for those that were more interested in
breaking system security.
Allison
1:07 p.m.
Years back...
I did a paper on "hackers" for a Computer Sociology class a few years ago.
In my research, I came across some really interesting articles that, even
in 1984 (when they were written), were arguing what the real definition of
"hacker" is. They described the early MIT "hackers", many of whom
became
so wrapped up in their projects that they never bothered to fulfill their
degree requirements. And those who were breaking into sophisticated,
secure systems for the pure joy and challenge. And those committing all
kinds of crimes with their particularly malicious kind of genius. So
people didn't really know what a hacker was 15 years ago either.
As I recall, the term "cracker" came from that guy who's name I never
remember (my mind is like a sieve) that used the handle "The Cracker" -
the one who broke into and then set up accounts and private forums on
systems for his buddies - on Compuserv, right? I can see the hands of half
the people reading this shooting up to shout his name...
There's been a lot of PC-thug pressure to make "hacker" into some kind of
superhero working for the good of society and the pure love of computing
and make "cracker" into some kind of maniac bent on the senseless
destruction of innocent computers everywhere. Then the issue is clouded
further by other terms like script-kiddies, cypherpunks, etc.
On Wed, 4 Aug 1999 allisonp(a)world.std.com wrote:
I wonder which
antique store I bought that dictionary from... :)
Here's my definition: "One who adapts an existing piece of computer (or
other type) of hardware to suit one's needs or to improve it without
instruction from the original manufacturer."
Orginal: Hacker
Very close the polo hacker example. The early computer "hackers" were
often people either not trained in technical sicesnces or specifically not
in computer sciences that were attempting to make computers do so task
they desired or envisioned. In that context I clearly was on in the 8008
and early 8080 days as who could take college courses that didn't yet
exist on microcomputer design and programming.
In later years it would be perverted into the form we know now that
referes to a non expert(?) whos goal it is to undermine computers
generally not their own.
I also thought that the people who screwed with
viruses and software and
such were "crackers" (which my dictionary describes as a 'dry, thin bread
substance").
That term was used at one time for those that were more interested in
breaking system security.
Allison
2:42 p.m.
New subject: Definition confirmation (please read)...
There never used to be any "argument".
The term is NEUTRAL. There is no implication of criminal, nor "hero",
merely an indication of expertise and temperament.
The term "cracker" does not derive from any one individual's
"handle", but
merely referred to one who "cracked" security.
But then, in the VERY recent past (what is now being called "years back"
or "long ago"), the news media (a bunch of mindless jerks who'll be first
against the wall when the revolution comes), first encountered pranksters,
vandals, etc. getting involved with computers. The miscreants that they
encountered called THEMSELVES "hackers", simply as a boastful
self-appellation. The news people were simply too dumb to understand, or
maybe assumed that the only possible outlet of genious would be criminal.
People like Levy in his "Hackers" book tried to explain, but by 1984 it
was too late.
Note: the mafia call themselves "businessmen". Do we now associate
the word "businessmen" with criminal behavior?
--
Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin(a)xenosoft.com
On Wed, 4 Aug 1999, Aaron Christopher Finney wrote:
Years back...
I did a paper on "hackers" for a Computer Sociology class a few years ago.
In my research, I came across some really interesting articles that, even
in 1984 (when they were written), were arguing what the real definition of
"hacker" is. They described the early MIT "hackers", many of whom
became
so wrapped up in their projects that they never bothered to fulfill their
degree requirements. And those who were breaking into sophisticated,
secure systems for the pure joy and challenge. And those committing all
kinds of crimes with their particularly malicious kind of genius. So
people didn't really know what a hacker was 15 years ago either.
As I recall, the term "cracker" came from that guy who's name I never
remember (my mind is like a sieve) that used the handle "The Cracker" -
the one who broke into and then set up accounts and private forums on
systems for his buddies - on Compuserv, right? I can see the hands of half
the people reading this shooting up to shout his name...
There's been a lot of PC-thug pressure to make "hacker" into some kind of
superhero working for the good of society and the pure love of computing
and make "cracker" into some kind of maniac bent on the senseless
destruction of innocent computers everywhere. Then the issue is clouded
further by other terms like script-kiddies, cypherpunks, etc.
2:56 p.m.
New subject: Definition confirmation (please read)...
I know it's off topic, but I can't reisist...
Note: the mafia call themselves
"businessmen". Do we now associate
the word "businessmen" with criminal behavior?
Apparently, you've never met the two bosses I've had before this job. ;-)
3:09 p.m.
New subject: Definition confirmation (please read)...
Time marches on...
"The Cracker" that I was trying to remember is Bill Landreth, aka "The
Teenage Computer Wizard Who Was Apprehended by the FBI." And it wasn't
Compuserv, it was the GTE Telemail system. The book is called "Out of the
Inner Circle" by Mr. Landreth himself.
And yes, Steven Levy's book "Hackers" is what the MIT stuff that I wrote
about came from. I think we've talked about it on the list before, no? The
best argument for the "hackers use the good side of the force" crowd...
I know this isn't a sci-fi list, but Gibson's Neuromancer has had
something to do with shaping the public's image of what a "hacker"
is...Case, sending his neural essence through the global matrix to "hack"
systems...espionage, intrigue, dark, sinister...
All you have to do is read Slashdot or Wired news for a week and you'll
get overloaded by the hacker vs. cracker terminology war.
Aaron
On Wed, 4 Aug 1999, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote:
There never used to be any "argument".
The term is NEUTRAL. There is no implication of criminal, nor "hero",
merely an indication of expertise and temperament.
The term "cracker" does not derive from any one individual's
"handle", but
merely referred to one who "cracked" security.
But then, in the VERY recent past (what is now being called "years back"
or "long ago"), the news media (a bunch of mindless jerks who'll be first
against the wall when the revolution comes), first encountered pranksters,
vandals, etc. getting involved with computers. The miscreants that they
encountered called THEMSELVES "hackers", simply as a boastful
self-appellation. The news people were simply too dumb to understand, or
maybe assumed that the only possible outlet of genious would be criminal.
People like Levy in his "Hackers" book tried to explain, but by 1984 it
was too late.
Note: the mafia call themselves "businessmen". Do we now associate
the word "businessmen" with criminal behavior?
--
Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin(a)xenosoft.com
On Wed, 4 Aug 1999, Aaron Christopher Finney wrote:
Years back...
I did a paper on "hackers" for a Computer Sociology class a few years ago.
In my research, I came across some really interesting articles that, even
in 1984 (when they were written), were arguing what the real definition of
"hacker" is. They described the early MIT "hackers", many of whom
became
so wrapped up in their projects that they never bothered to fulfill their
degree requirements. And those who were breaking into sophisticated,
secure systems for the pure joy and challenge. And those committing all
kinds of crimes with their particularly malicious kind of genius. So
people didn't really know what a hacker was 15 years ago either.
As I recall, the term "cracker" came from that guy who's name I never
remember (my mind is like a sieve) that used the handle "The Cracker" -
the one who broke into and then set up accounts and private forums on
systems for his buddies - on Compuserv, right? I can see the hands of half
the people reading this shooting up to shout his name...
There's been a lot of PC-thug pressure to make "hacker" into some kind of
superhero working for the good of society and the pure love of computing
and make "cracker" into some kind of maniac bent on the senseless
destruction of innocent computers everywhere. Then the issue is clouded
further by other terms like script-kiddies, cypherpunks, etc.
5:23 p.m.
New subject: Definition confirmation (please read)...
On Wed, 4 Aug 1999, Aaron Christopher Finney wrote:
"The Cracker" that I was trying to remember
is Bill Landreth, aka "The
Teenage Computer Wizard Who Was Apprehended by the FBI." And it wasn't
Compuserv, it was the GTE Telemail system. The book is called "Out of the
Inner Circle" by Mr. Landreth himself.
Man, forgot all about that book. I've been loooking for a copy for a long
time now. Anyone know where to find a one? Two gougers on ABE want $40+
for the book. Interestingly enough it was published by Microsoft Press.
And yes, Steven Levy's book "Hackers" is
what the MIT stuff that I wrote
about came from. I think we've talked about it on the list before, no? The
best argument for the "hackers use the good side of the force" crowd...
This book is an excellent read, and if I were to recommend any book to
this list it would be that one. I've read it twice in the past ten years
and am due for another reading soon. It has specific chapters on
Steve Wozniak and Apple, Lee Felsenstein and The People's Computer
Company, Sierra Online, and of course the early computer days at MIT.
Simply excellent.
I know this isn't a sci-fi list, but Gibson's
Neuromancer has had
something to do with shaping the public's image of what a "hacker"
is...Case, sending his neural essence through the global matrix to "hack"
systems...espionage, intrigue, dark, sinister...
Another great book. I can't wait for the movie, which I heard rumors
about years ago. Hacker movies are the only thing keeping Keanu Reeves
employed.
Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Don't rub the lamp if you don't want the genie to come out.
Coming this October 2-3: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0!
See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
[Last web site update: 05/25/99]
5 Aug
5 Aug
12:44 a.m.
New subject: Definition confirmation (please read)...
I know this isn't a sci-fi list, but Gibson's
Neuromancer has had
something to do with shaping the public's image of what a "hacker"
is...Case, sending his neural essence through the global matrix to "hack"
systems...espionage, intrigue, dark, sinister...
Of course, back in those days in the early 80s, Gibson had never
touched a computer and knew nothing about how they worked, let
alone communications and networking. He knew almost as much about
computers as Edgar Rice Burroughs knew about Africa when ERB wrote
the first Tarzan novel.
Ward Griffiths <mailto:gram@cnct.com> <http://www.cnct.com/home/gram/>
WARNING: The Attorney General has determined that Alcohol, Tobacco,
and Firearms can be hazardous to your health -- and get away with it.
4:35 a.m.
New subject: Definition confirmation (please read)...
At 05:44 AM 8/5/99 -0400, Ward Griffiths wrote:
Of course, back in those days in the early 80s, Gibson had never
touched a computer and knew nothing about how they worked, let
alone communications and networking.
Yes, I seem to remember a passage in one of Gibson's books where
a computer-based AI resided in two megabytes of ROM. Now that's
compact coding!
- John
29 Jul
29 Jul
4:45 a.m.
New subject: Definition confirmation (please read)...
True. that does not sound like much - but back in 1973 when I took
my first programming courses the text book defined the boundary
between mini and mainframe by concluding that a real mainframe had
to have at least 16-K of core. And if I remember correctly, our huge
IBM 360/195 had a whole megabyte of ram!! GUI's have sure messed
that up - eh?
roger Goswick
-----Original Message-----
From: CLASSICCMP-owner(a)u.washington.edu
[mailto:CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu]On Behalf Of John Foust
Sent: Thursday, August 05, 1999 8:36 AM
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
Subject: Re: Definition confirmation (please read)...
At 05:44 AM 8/5/99 -0400, Ward Griffiths wrote:
Of course, back in those days in the early 80s, Gibson had never
touched a computer and knew nothing about how they worked, let
alone communications and networking.
Yes, I seem to remember a passage in one of Gibson's books where
a computer-based AI resided in two megabytes of ROM. Now that's
compact coding!
- Jo
4 Aug
4 Aug
3:14 p.m.
New subject: Definition confirmation (please read)...
"Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" <cisin(a)xenosoft.com> wrote:
Note: the mafia call themselves "businessmen". Do we now associate
the word "businessmen" with criminal behavior?
You mean businessmen like Bill Gates?
Dwight
4:54 p.m.
New subject: Definition confirmation (please read)...
Note: the
mafia call themselves "businessmen". Do we now associate
the word "businessmen" with criminal behavior?
You mean businessmen like
Bill Gates?
5 Aug
5 Aug
12:05 a.m.
New subject: Definition confirmation (please read)...
On Wed, 4 Aug 1999, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote:
vandals, etc. getting involved with computers. The
miscreants that they
encountered called THEMSELVES "hackers", simply as a boastful
Most crackers are wannabee hackers and give themselves undeserved
honors. This is covered a few times in ESR's jargon file aka _The
New Hacker's Dictionary_.
self-appellation. The news people were simply too
dumb to understand, or
maybe assumed that the only possible outlet of genious would be criminal.
News people are normally stupid. Note their continuing support for
victim disarmament laws that they call "gun control".
People like Levy in his "Hackers" book tried
to explain, but by 1984 it
was too late.
Once a "news person" swallows a bullshit term, the whole herd grabs it
and it pollutes the language for (at least) decades.
Note: the mafia call themselves
"businessmen". Do we now associate
the word "businessmen" with criminal behavior?
Well, ask your nearest demopublican (or republicrat) congressthing.
--
Ward Griffiths
"the timid die just like the daring; and if you don't take the plunge then
you'll just take the fall" Michael Longcor
4 Aug
4 Aug
5:03 p.m.
On Wed, 4 Aug 1999, Aaron Christopher Finney wrote:
I did a paper on "hackers" for a Computer
Sociology class a few years ago.
In my research, I came across some really interesting articles that, even
in 1984 (when they were written), were arguing what the real definition of
"hacker" is. They described the early MIT "hackers", many of whom
became
so wrapped up in their projects that they never bothered to fulfill their
degree requirements. And those who were breaking into sophisticated,
secure systems for the pure joy and challenge. And those committing all
kinds of crimes with their particularly malicious kind of genius. So
people didn't really know what a hacker was 15 years ago either.
Well, I give priority to first use, which goes to the MIT Hackers. All
that adopted the term subsequently are just posers.
There's been a lot of PC-thug pressure to make
"hacker" into some kind of
superhero working for the good of society and the pure love of computing
and make "cracker" into some kind of maniac bent on the senseless
destruction of innocent computers everywhere. Then the issue is clouded
further by other terms like script-kiddies, cypherpunks, etc.
I think this comes out of the offense taken by those whom consider
themselves hackers in the real and original sense. I guess they have a
point. But those in the know will always be able to differentiate between
a hacker and some other loser.
Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Don't rub the lamp if you don't want the genie to come out.
Coming this October 2-3: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0!
See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
[Last web site update: 05/25/99]
9118
days inactive
9119
days old
21 comments
16 participants
participants (16)
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allisonp＠world.std.com -
ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk -
at258＠osfn.org -
ccfsm＠ipa.net -
cisin＠xenosoft.com -
cureau＠centuryinter.net -
dastar＠ncal.verio.com -
elvey＠hal.com -
gram＠cnct.com -
jfoust＠threedee.com -
jpero＠cgocable.net -
lwalker＠mail.interlog.com -
mcguire＠neurotica.com -
mikeford＠netwiz.net -
roblwill＠usaor.net