10 Mar
2009
10 Mar
'09
2:26 p.m.
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 21:06:08 -0500
From: Brian Lanning <brianlanning at gmail.com>
It appears that the quadra 700 I just received from ebay has no rom
simm. Does anyone know where I can get one, other than waiting an
unknown amount of time for ebay to produce one? thanks.
Every Macintosh from the II forward (well, probably not the Classic) was
built with a ROM socket. However, the vast majority of them have ROM
chips soldered to the board, and the socket is only there for updates
which were never deemed worthwhile.
Unless you have an incredibly rare Q700, there are ROM chips soldered to
the board. They'll have a part number something like 343S0xxx or
341S0xxx and there will probably be four of them (each with its own,
probably sequential, number), although there might only be two if they
used 16 bit wide chips. I'm not sure if the Q700 is recent enough, but at
some point they moved to 44 pin PSOPs for almost all their soldered down
ROMs.
Symptom of a missing ROM would be that the machine powers up just fine and
all the drives spin up, lights come on, but there is no start-up bong and
never any video from the monitor output. If the machine fails to power
up all-together, then you have a different issue than lack of ROM.
If you have a power supply failure, the power supplies from the IIcx,
IIci, IIvi, IIvx, Q700, Centris 650, Q650, and PowerMac 7100 will work in
the Q700. It was a long-lived power supply model.
Jeff Walther
10 Mar
10 Mar
2:33 p.m.
On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 1:26 PM, Jeff Walther <trag at io.com> wrote:
Every Macintosh from the II forward (well, probably
not the Classic) was
built with a ROM socket. ? However, the vast majority of them have ROM
chips soldered to the board, and the socket is only there for updates
which were never deemed worthwhile.
Unless you have an incredibly rare Q700, there are ROM chips soldered to
the board. ? They'll have a part number something like 343S0xxx or
341S0xxx and there will probably be four of them (each with its own,
probably sequential, number), although there might only be two if they
used 16 bit wide chips. ?I'm not sure if the Q700 is recent enough, but at
some point they moved to 44 pin PSOPs for almost all their soldered down
ROMs.
Symptom of a missing ROM would be that the machine powers up just fine and
all the drives spin up, lights come on, but there is no start-up bong and
never any video from the monitor output. ? If the machine fails to power
up all-together, then you have a different issue than lack of ROM.
If you have a power supply failure, the power supplies from the IIcx,
IIci, IIvi, IIvx, Q700, Centris 650, Q650, and PowerMac 7100 will work in
the Q700. ?It was a long-lived power supply model.
Thanks for the info. Maybe I should just try to turn it on. :-)
What's up with the two different types of simm socket for ram? The
machine has 4 simms in the smaller (30 pin?) sockets and none in the
larger (72-pin?) sockets. Can I put memory in both of them, is it one
or the other?
brian
2:58 p.m.
Thanks for the info. Maybe I should just try to turn
it on. :-)
What's up with the two different types of simm socket for ram? The
machine has 4 simms in the smaller (30 pin?) sockets and none in the
larger (72-pin?) sockets. Can I put memory in both of them, is it one
or the other?
One (30-pin) is regular RAM, the other is video RAM. There is already 512K
on the motherboard, but you can add more (optional). They should be actually
68-pin SIMMs (welovemacs has the part):
http://www.welovemacs.com/apple-memory-performa-performa-466-mac-256k-vram-…
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3:07 p.m.
On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 1:58 PM, Cameron Kaiser <spectre at floodgap.com> wrote:
One (30-pin) is regular RAM, the other is video RAM.
There is already 512K
on the motherboard, but you can add more (optional). They should be actually
68-pin SIMMs (welovemacs has the part):
? ? ?
?http://www.welovemacs.com/apple-memory-performa-performa-466-mac-256k-vram-simm.html
Thanks, I'll be picking those up. :-)
brian
3:43 p.m.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Lanning" <brianlanning at gmail.com>
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 3:07 PM
Subject: Re: macintosh rom simms
On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 1:58 PM, Cameron Kaiser
<spectre at floodgap.com>
wrote:
Make sure those VRAM SIMMs are 80ns, the 100ns variety are only good with
the old 030 based LC machines, Quadras need faster VRAM. You also need to
install them in pairs or four at a time I believe (depending on the
machine).
TZ
One (30-pin) is regular RAM, the other is video
RAM. There is already
512K
on the motherboard, but you can add more (optional). They should be
actually
68-pin SIMMs (welovemacs has the part):
http://www.welovemacs.com/apple-memory-performa-performa-466-mac-256k-vram-…
Thanks, I'll be picking those up. :-)
brian
3:50 p.m.
On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 2:43 PM, Teo Zenios <teoz at neo.rr.com> wrote:
Make sure those VRAM SIMMs are 80ns, the 100ns variety
are only good with
the old 030 based LC machines, Quadras need faster VRAM. You also need to
install them in pairs or four at a time I believe (depending on the
machine).
The we love macs page says there's 6 slots for a total of 2megs of
video memory. I don't remember there being that many sockets, but it
was a quick glance. I'll survey the situation a little more closely
when i get home. Thanks for the info.
brian
4:12 p.m.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Lanning" <brianlanning at gmail.com>
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 3:50 PM
Subject: Re: macintosh rom simms
On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 2:43 PM, Teo Zenios <teoz
at neo.rr.com> wrote:
Yea the Q700 was the odd one, one of the few models I don't have. Q950's
have 4 empty slots (max 2MB), Q840av also have 4 (Max 2MB), Q800 have 2 I
think (max 1MB).
VRAM for Nubus machines came in 512K and 256K varieties.
Make sure those VRAM SIMMs are 80ns, the 100ns
variety are only good with
the old 030 based LC machines, Quadras need faster VRAM. You also need to
install them in pairs or four at a time I believe (depending on the
machine).
The we love macs page says there's 6 slots for a total of 2megs of
video memory. I don't remember there being that many sockets, but it
was a quick glance. I'll survey the situation a little more closely
when i get home. Thanks for the info.
brian
4:17 p.m.
On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 3:12 PM, Teo Zenios <teoz at neo.rr.com> wrote:
Yea the Q700 was the odd one, one of the few models I
don't have. Q950's
have 4 empty slots (max 2MB), Q840av also have 4 (Max 2MB), Q800 have 2 I
think (max 1MB).
VRAM for Nubus machines came in 512K and 256K varieties.
Can Q700s take a separate nubus video board? Maybe the money from the
vram would be better spent on that. I know some of the II series
machines would get a performance boost form that sort of thing also.
4:30 p.m.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Lanning" <brianlanning at gmail.com>
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 4:17 PM
Subject: Re: macintosh rom simms
On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 3:12 PM, Teo Zenios <teoz
at neo.rr.com> wrote:
A good Nubus video card will get you more features and probably more color
depth, but it still goes through the Nubus BUS which is kind of slow. Built
in video on the Quadra's isn't that bad. Once you get into the Nubus PPC the
PDS (processor direct slot) video cards are faster then any Nubus based one
just because of bandwidth. The Mac II series that has built in video is
crippled (IIci, IIsi, etc), the best Mac IIs (II, IIx, IIfx have no built in
video).
You can probably fine some VRAM cheaper then that website sells it for, try
LEMswap on google groups and see what comes up. I like the Supermac Thunder/
24 Nubus cards for Quadras, they are fast and have 3MB of VRAM for 24 bit
color at 1024x768.
You only have 2 slots on the Q700 for Nubus cards (which is why I never
bothered to get one), but for most people that is plenty.
Yea the Q700 was the odd one, one of the few
models I don't have. Q950's
have 4 empty slots (max 2MB), Q840av also have 4 (Max 2MB), Q800 have 2 I
think (max 1MB).
VRAM for Nubus machines came in 512K and 256K varieties.
Can Q700s take a separate nubus video board? Maybe the money from the
vram would be better spent on that. I know some of the II series
machines would get a performance boost form that sort of thing also.
4:44 p.m.
On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 3:30 PM, Teo Zenios <teoz at neo.rr.com> wrote:
A good Nubus video card will get you more features and
probably more color
depth, but it still goes through the Nubus BUS which is kind of slow. Built
in video on the Quadra's isn't that bad. Once you get into the Nubus PPC the
PDS (processor direct slot) video cards are faster then any Nubus based one
just because of bandwidth. The Mac II series that has built in video is
crippled (IIci, IIsi, etc), the best Mac IIs (II, IIx, IIfx have no built in
video).
You can probably fine some VRAM cheaper then that website sells it for, try
LEMswap on google groups and see what comes up. I like the Supermac Thunder/
24 Nubus cards for Quadras, they are fast and have 3MB of VRAM for 24 bit
color at 1024x768.
You only have 2 slots on the Q700 for Nubus cards (which is why I never
bothered to get one), but for most people that is plenty.
It already has scsi and ehternet so I'm not sure what else I would put
in there unless I found something unique or interesting.
I still need to track down that goofy ethernet dongle that gives you an rj-45.
5:18 p.m.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Lanning" <brianlanning at gmail.com>
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 4:44 PM
Subject: Re: macintosh rom simms
It already has scsi and ehternet so I'm not sure
what else I would put
in there unless I found something unique or interesting.
I still need to track down that goofy ethernet dongle that gives you an
rj-45.
Those dongles should be easy and cheap to get.
I collect Nubus cards, must have 70+ by now so I like machines that I can
stick a few cards in. Mostly I stuff machines with video capture cards, DSP
cards, sound cards, 10/100 ethernet, 386/486 PC cards, fast SCSI cards, etc.
That is probably why I love the big Mac II machines and the Q950's.
9:58 p.m.
On Mar 10, 2009, at 2:18 PM, Teo Zenios wrote:
I collect Nubus cards, must have 70+ by now
Which reminds me... I am looking for one or two Daystar Powercard RAM
cards. These are Nubus cards with 16x 30-pin SIMM slots on, which can
be used by the Mac OS as RAM disk.
Anybody with one to spare, please drop me a line? Also, keep it in the
back of your memory in case you come across one sometime.
Thanks!
ok
bear
4:31 p.m.
Yea the Q700
was the odd one, one of the few models I don't have. Q950's
have 4 empty slots (max 2MB), Q840av also have 4 (Max 2MB), Q800 have 2 I
think (max 1MB).
VRAM for Nubus machines came in 512K and 256K varieties.
Can Q700s take a separate nubus video board?
4:49 p.m.
On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 3:31 PM, Cameron Kaiser <spectre at floodgap.com> wrote:
Absolutely. I was actually about to suggest that to
you. However, make sure
that you get a card that will actually give you a benefit. For example, I
like to use a 8*24*GC as my preferred video card, but this would actually be a
*bad* choice with the Q700 as the GC accelerator CDEV seems to freak out on
'040s. Without the CDEV, you only get 8*24 performance (and internal video
would actually be faster).
A Radius card would go nicely in a unit like this, though.
ok, so I'll start shopping for that.
I'm having a hard time telling the difference between the video cards.
They all look the same to me although I'm sure some are better than
others.
I have a iifx also which has two video cards in it. The video cards
look like they're from apple and seem to be working together to
improve performance. But again, I'm not sure if those two together
are better or worse than one newer video card.
brian
5:21 p.m.
A Radius card
would go nicely in a unit like this, though.
ok, so I'll start shopping for that.
I'm having a hard time telling the difference between the video cards.
They all look the same to me although I'm sure some are better than
others. I have a iifx also which has two video cards in it.
The video cards
look like they're from apple and seem to be working together to
improve performance. But again, I'm not sure if those two together
are better or worse than one newer video card.
The IIfx's "banner" video card was, ironically, the 8*24*GC, which is a
card
you should *not* use with the Q700 (see my last E-mail for why).
You can use certain NuBus cards to speed up other NuBus cards. Cards that
support slave NuBus block transfers can be sped up by NuBus cards that support
bus mastering. The GC, again, is one of these and can speed up its slower
cousins like the 4*8 and straight 8*24. I think some Radius and Supermac
cards can also.
--
------------------------------------ personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ --
Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser at floodgap.com
-- "I think you underestimate the stupidness." --------------------------------
5:30 p.m.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Cameron Kaiser" <spectre at floodgap.com>
To: <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 5:21 PM
Subject: Re: macintosh rom simms
The IIfx's "banner" video card was,
ironically, the 8*24*GC, which is a
card
you should *not* use with the Q700 (see my last E-mail for why).
You can use certain NuBus cards to speed up other NuBus cards. Cards that
support slave NuBus block transfers can be sped up by NuBus cards that
support
bus mastering. The GC, again, is one of these and can speed up its slower
cousins like the 4*8 and straight 8*24. I think some Radius and Supermac
cards can also.
--
------------------------------------ personal:
http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ --
Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com *
ckaiser at floodgap.com
-- "I think you underestimate the
stupidness." --------------------------------
Rasterops also made a seperate card that sped up block transfers for other
cards and also RAM slots onboard.
http://picasaweb.google.com/teozenios/NubusCards#5074342871496358706
Those 2 big chips to the right are DSPs. These were meant for 030 based
machines since all video cards in the Quadra had video acceleration built
in.
11:44 p.m.
So it booted just fine. 20megs of ram, 500 meg fujitsu hard drive.
The disk is full of... stuff. I'm surprised it's so full, there's not
much there. the video is that weird mac resolution 1150xsomething. 4
bit color. :-P I'll have to do something about the video.
It does have 6 vram sockets. And it apparently had roms already like
everyone said. :-)
brian
11:54 p.m.
So it booted just fine. 20megs of ram, 500 meg
fujitsu hard drive.
The disk is full of... stuff. I'm surprised it's so full, there's not
much there. the video is that weird mac resolution 1150xsomething. 4
bit color. :-P I'll have to do something about the video.
It does have 6 vram sockets. And it apparently had roms already like
everyone said. :-)
Q700s are nice little units. You'll enjoy it.
--
------------------------------------ personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ --
Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser at floodgap.com
-- The world is coming to an end. Log off now. --------------------------------
11 Mar
11 Mar
12:15 a.m.
1152x874 :)
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org]
On Behalf Of Brian Lanning
Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 8:45 PM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: macintosh rom simms
So it booted just fine. 20megs of ram, 500 meg fujitsu hard drive.
The disk is full of... stuff. I'm surprised it's so full, there's not
much there. the video is that weird mac resolution 1150xsomething. 4
bit color. :-P I'll have to do something about the video.
It does have 6 vram sockets. And it apparently had roms already like
everyone said. :-)
brian
12 Mar
12 Mar
6:24 a.m.
Geoff Reed wrote:
1152x874 :)
That's 1152x864.
Peace... Sridhar
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org]
On Behalf Of Brian Lanning
Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 8:45 PM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: macintosh rom simms
So it booted just fine. 20megs of ram, 500 meg fujitsu hard drive.
The disk is full of... stuff. I'm surprised it's so full, there's not
much there. the video is that weird mac resolution 1150xsomething. 4
bit color. :-P I'll have to do something about the video.
It does have 6 vram sockets. And it apparently had roms already like
everyone said. :-)
brian
11 Mar
11 Mar
4:50 a.m.
On Tue, 10 Mar 2009 22:44:59 -0500
Brian Lanning <brianlanning at gmail.com> wrote:
the video is that weird mac resolution 1150xsomething.
This is not wired. Most likely it is 1152x864. 1152 * 864 = 995328
This is about 1 MegaPixel. Or the max. resolution hat you can get with
e.g. 1 MB VRAM and 8 bit color at a 3:4 aspect ratio. Sun used
1152x900. The old sun monitors where not overscan capable, so the
aspect ratio was not exactely 3:4, hence 900 insted of 864.
--
tsch??,
Jochen
Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/
5593
days inactive
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20 comments
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participants (8)
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bear＠typewritten.org -
brianlanning＠gmail.com -
geoffr＠zipcon.net -
jkunz＠unixag-kl.fh-kl.de -
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trag＠io.com