11 Oct
2001
11 Oct
'01
2:32 p.m.
Does anyone know if there is any info to be had about
how the innards
of games like Dark Tower function. I've never seen inside one but I
presume there's a custom chip that's a microprocessor, RAM and ROM
all rolled into one, for cost reasons.
I think I still have mine, and in working condition. Although I would not
be willing to part with it (thus why I think I still have it), I CAN open
it and send some digital pics of the chips. Maybe even draw out some
schematics.
I would guess that based on its age, there is nothing fancy in there.
Probably a simple eeprom or something for storing your stats, and
everything else was probably random gates (fighting, spinning,
whathaveyou). As far as "emulation" goes, I would think you could just
write it from the ground up following the rules of the game. Although, it
wouldn't be a true emulation, it would make it playable (and you could do
it networked EASY... now THAT would be a cool internet based game!)
-chris
<http://www.mythtech.net>
11 Oct
11 Oct
7:32 p.m.
New subject: OT: Dark Tower
It was thus said that the Great Chris once stated:
I would guess that based on its age, there is nothing fancy in there.
Probably a simple eeprom or something for storing your stats, and
everything else was probably random gates (fighting, spinning,
whathaveyou). As far as "emulation" goes, I would think you could just
write it from the ground up following the rules of the game. Although, it
wouldn't be a true emulation, it would make it playable (and you could do
it networked EASY... now THAT would be a cool internet based game!)
What exactly IS Dark Tower? I've heard of Dork Tower (a comic book) but
not Dark Tower. If you prefer to answer off list, that would be fine too
8-)
-spc (And my colocated server is called tower ... even though it's
not in a tower case ... )
12 Oct
12 Oct
4:13 a.m.
New subject: OT: Dark Tower
Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner skrev:
-spc (And my colocated server is called tower ...
even though it's
not in a tower case ... )
Then it must be an NCR, right?
--
En ligne avec Thor 2.6a.
A liberal is someone too poor to be conservative, and too rich to be a
communist.
7 a.m.
New subject: OT: Dark Tower
It was thus said that the Great Iggy Drougge once stated:
Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner skrev:
Yes, you are correct.
Not many people get the joke though.
-spc (Up for 315 days and counting ... )
-spc (And my colocated server is called tower
... even though it's
not in a tower case ... )
Then it must be an NCR, right? 
7:51 a.m.
New subject: OT: Dark Tower
On Fri, Oct 12, 2001 at 12:00:14PM -0400, Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner wrote:
It was thus said that the Great Iggy Drougge once
stated:
Including me. Can you explain it?
-- Derek
Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner skrev:
Yes, you are correct.
Not many people get the joke though. -spc (And my colocated server is called tower
... even though it's
not in a tower case ... )
Then it must be an NCR, right? 
15 Oct
15 Oct
9:32 a.m.
New subject: OT: Dark Tower
--- Derek Peschel <dpeschel(a)eskimo.com> wrote:
On Fri, Oct 12, 2001 at 12:00:14PM -0400, Sean
'Captain Napalm' Conner
wrote:
NCR had a line of multibus-based 68K-family UNIX machines called "NCR
Towers" that were deeper and taller than today's full-sized towers
and weighed about 3x as much (got a pair of 'em myself). I haven't
opened mine in years, but ISTR there's a Multibus 68010 board,
a couple of RAM boards and an ESDI controller with two full-sized
5.25" ESDI drives in the base.
-ethan
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It was thus said that the Great Iggy Drougge once
stated:
Including me. Can you explain it?
Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner skrev:
Yes, you are correct.
Not many people get the joke though. -spc (And my colocated server is called tower
... even though it's
not in a tower case ... )
Then it must be an NCR, right?
1:19 p.m.
New subject: OT: Dark Tower
Ethan Dicks skrev:
NCR had a line of multibus-based 68K-family UNIX
machines called "NCR
Towers" that were deeper and taller than today's full-sized towers
and weighed about 3x as much (got a pair of 'em myself). I haven't
opened mine in years, but ISTR there's a Multibus 68010 board,
a couple of RAM boards and an ESDI controller with two full-sized
5.25" ESDI drives in the base.
ISTR reading that very early SUNs used Multibus, too. What kind of bus was
that? What did it look like, and what other platforms used it?
It seems to have been quite popular at some time.
--
En ligne avec Thor 2.6a.
Amiga 4000/040 25MHz/64MB/20GB RetinaBLTZ3/VLab/FastlaneZ3/Ariadne/Toccata
16 Oct
16 Oct
7:19 a.m.
New subject: Multibus (was Re: OT: Dark Tower)
--- Iggy Drougge <optimus(a)canit.se> wrote:
Ethan Dicks skrev:
Older Cisco routers (AGS+, etc.) also used Multibus. There were two
connectors, one at 0.154" pitch, the other at a smaller pitch (0.125"?)
The cards were approx 12" wide and 6" tall (might be a little larger).
I think the data path was limited to 16 bits, but I could be wrong on
that. It was common to see on Motorola processors before VME.
NCR had a line of multibus-based 68K-family UNIX
machines called "NCR
Towers"...
ISTR reading that very early SUNs used Multibus, too. What kind of bus
was that? What did it look like, and what other platforms used it?
It seems to have been quite popular at some time. It seems to have been quite popular at some time.
AFAIK, it was either free to use or cheap to license, and didn't
require proprietary connectors like DEC busses.
-ethan
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12 Oct
12 Oct
10:42 a.m.
New subject: OT: Dark Tower
Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner skrev:
It was thus said that the Great Iggy Drougge once
stated:
>
> Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner skrev:
>
> > -spc (And my colocated server is called tower ... even though it's
> > not in a tower case ... )
>
> Then it must be an NCR, right?
Yes, you are correct.
Really? Tell us more.
Not many people get the joke though.
I wasn't sure you'd get it, either. =)
-spc (Up for 315 days and counting ... )
Running what, where?
(I like m68k things =)
--
En ligne avec Thor 2.6a.
G? med i SUGA, Swedish Usergroup of Amiga!
WWW: http://swedish.usergroup.amiga.tm/
BBS: 08-6582572, telnet://sua.ath.cx:42512
15 Oct
15 Oct
9:29 a.m.
--- Chris <mythtech(a)Mac.com> wrote:
That would be helpful.
Does anyone
know if there is any info to be had about how the innards
of games like Dark Tower function. I've never seen inside one but I
presume there's a custom chip that's a microprocessor, RAM and ROM
all rolled into one, for cost reasons.
I think I still have mine, and in working condition. Although I would not
be willing to part with it (thus why I think I still have it), I CAN open
it and send some digital pics of the chips. Maybe even draw out some
schematics. I would guess that based on its age, there is nothing
fancy in there.
Probably a simple eeprom or something for storing your stats, and
everything else was probably random gates (fighting, spinning,
whathaveyou).
Eeprom? In 1982? What I expect is in there is a single custom chip
(random gates are too expensive for a mass-market toy). What would
be perfect would be the recorded ramblings of one of the designers
more than anything else.
As far as "emulation" goes, I would think you could just
write it from the ground up following the rules of the
game. Although, it
wouldn't be a true emulation, it would make it playable
But that's the whole point. I can write something, perhaps even in a
toy language like Javascript, that would imitate the functions of the
game and more or less play like the real thing, due to things like
how the random number generator works, activities like searching tombs
for treasure or haggling in the bazaar might or might not be close
to the original.
Imitation is easy. Emulation is harder.
(and you could do
it networked EASY... now THAT would be a cool internet based game!)
That _would_ be fun.
-ethan
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12:18 p.m.
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16 Oct
16 Oct
7:23 a.m.
--- Tony Duell <ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk> wrote:
That's a good lead right there. How did they do development for a
mask-programmed chip? Desk check it, burn a run and hope for the
best? Simulators? Prototype with identical architecture but external
program storage?
Any good pages on the TMS1000? With an understanding of the capbabilities
of the chip, it's easier to guess how a designer might have implemented
certain functions.
-ethan
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> >of
games like Dark Tower function. I've never seen inside one but I
> >presume there's a custom chip that's a microprocessor, RAM and ROM
> >all rolled into one, for cost reasons.
In my (limited) experience, most electronic toy/games from that time
frame contain a mask-programmed microcontroller. Normally a
TMS1000-series device.
9:44 a.m.
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12:59 p.m.
--- Tony Duell <ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk> wrote:
Well, as I said 'limited experience'. I
didn't play electronic games (I
still don't) -- I prefered hacking electronics. On the other hand, most
of the games owned by other children at school ended up on my bench to
have battery leads resoldered, LEDs replaced, and so on.
Kids never gave me stuff to fix and return... I got broken stuff and
fixed it if I could. Learned more than I fixed. :-)
In my (limited) experience, most electronic toy/games
from that time
frame contain a mask-programmed microcontroller. Normally a
TMS1000-series device.
Another possibilty is an in-circuit emulator, a box
with a cable
that plugs in place of the mask-programmed IC, and which contains enough
logic (either as TTL or as custom chips, possibly modified versions of
the chip you are emulating) to simulate the chip at full speed, and with
RAM as the program store. Normally there's a serial port to connect to a
host computer to download code, set breakpoints, examine internal
registers and so on. ICE boxes are not cheap, but they are rather fun to
play with if you ever come across one.
I have an ICE for the 68000 - my former employers paid about $20K for it.
It's a big hoot to play with - stores 4096 bus acesses and traces a few
lines if you connect extra probes. Mine was made by Northwest Instruments.
We got it with an original 5-slot PC (5150) to talk to the box with the
RAM, etc., in it. Still have the whole shootin' match, 10Mb add-in drive
and all (we put that in later when we got tired of running off of floppies
and it was <$500).
I've found some interesting hardware bugs with it, like a 68K prototype
with UDS and LDS swapped by mistake - makes byte operations all squirrelly.
-ethan
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1:48 p.m.
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8294
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14 comments
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participants (6)
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ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk -
dpeschel＠eskimo.com -
erd_6502＠yahoo.com -
mythtech＠Mac.com -
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