Another thing that really helps is to declare that it was made in the USA. Regards - Mike Mike B. Feher, N4FS 89 Arnold Blvd. Howell NJ, 07731 (732) 901-9193 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary Hildebrand" <ghldbrd(a)ccp.com> To: <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 10:48 AM Subject: Re: Paperwork to move classiccmps from .ca to .us?

Mike Feher wrote: "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" <cisin(a)xenosoft.com> wrote: Surely they can't do anything to prevent a product they manufactured and that bears their trademark from being imported? Isn't that covered under the doctrine of first sale?

--- Eric Smith <eric(a)brouhaha.com> wrote: I had one of them contact me while the shipment was being held. This was > 10 years ago and was one of the first times I'd ever ordered a product by e-mail from Canada. It was also the first time that this guy (small company) sent any thing _from_ Canada. He just took it to UPS and off it went. They wanted $80 to process the paperwork. I told them there was no way I was paying them and that they needed to send the shipment back to the shipper. They were genuinely surprised. What I have learned since then is that when shipping via UPS, a one- page form, properly filled out, is all you need. No brokers. No funny business. There is the potential for duty, depending on the price and nature of the item, but that's a different issue. Mostly, my personal experiences have been shipping 10" 9-track tapes to Canadian COMBOARD customers (software, no duty; $4 tape, no duty) and GG2 Bus+ boards (via Post, so I expect that any duties are paid by the recipent - I certainly didn't pay any to export - that's unconstitutional). ISTR a UPS export declaration form was all I had to submit with my shipper's book for a pickup. Things may have changed with NAFTA (easier rather than harder, I would expect), but it shouldn't be a major production. Physically taking the goods with you across the border is a different story. Accompanied goods are subject to different regulations (like the $100 exemption previously mentioned). Proof of place of manufacture can be handy ("Made in USA" stickers *should* suffice). Proof of purchase is nearly as good. I've never had any problems with bringing anything across the border with me except the one time I was asked to pay import duty on some Canadian beer I brought home with me, because I didn't spend enough time in Canada to qualify for an exemption. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo! http://sbc.yahoo.com

I just picked up one of these precision ivory bricks this weekend (free at my village scrap center). Pretty intricate design, yet solid. This unit will remain safe in my stores for years. Anybody know if there's a BIOS boot menu available on it? John A.

On three occasions when I received items from Canada that were shipped via UPS, I've received brokerage fee bills from UPS. In each case, I called the number on the invoice and complained to the UPS brokerage rep. I pointed out that whenever I call UPS customer service to have a late package traced, I'm told to talk to the shipper since the contract for shipping service is between UPS and the shipper, not UPS and the consignee. So, I said, since the contract is between UPS and the shipper, they need to send this bill to the shipper. The rep usually responds that no, the consignee is responsible for the brokerage fee. I then ask the rep how I can be responsible for service fees when UPS' own customer service tells me that the contract is between UPS and the shipper. Then, I repeat in my most reasonable voice that UPS should send this bill to the shipper. At this point, the UPS brokerage rep sighs and says, as a customer service, they'll waive the brokerage fee. As well they should. All in all, it only takes a few minutes, and it's always fun to listen to the brokerage rep fumble around trying to justify the contradictory policies of UPS. -- Tony

The problem is if customs things the value is more than $100. If you buy it for $25, the value is $25, and it doesn't matter what customs thinks it is worth.

Jerome Fine replies: Dan, if you see this, give me a call. Sometime in the last 3 or 4 years, I went to Detroit and picked up about 8 VT100/VT220 terminals along with a BA23 box or two - I can't really remember that long ago. In any case, the stuff was really dirty and when I went through customs in Canada, all they needed was to see the date of manufacture on the back as being in the first half of the 1980s. The trip took a whole day (Toronto => Detroit => Toronto), but the gas was really the only cost (plus the tunnel tolls). So it seemed OK at the time. But I did need to convince the guy at customs that I was more than a bit crazy in running such old computers - I think the dirt helped quite a bit. The following year I went to Cleveland and did the same thing. But the fellow that gave me the BA123 and the terminals insisted on cash - $ 10 to balance the books at the company. That actually was useful at Canadian customs as it was the actual truth. By the way, shipping into Canada is probably still very easy if the valuation or "Commercial Invoice" shows less than $ US 12 or more specifically less than $ Can 20 - in that case, the shipment is noted as being of "Low Value" and goes into Canada under "Courier Remission" - which translates as NO GST - which translates as no broker required to clear the shipment since there is nothing to collect - computer parts having no duty, but EVERYTHING STILL has GST (7%) applied when it is coming into Ontario. So a broker is really needed only to pass on the GST to the Federal Government - a rather sweet set up that UPS, in particular, takes advantage of. I image that similar set up applies in the opposite direction, but the dollar threshold might be different. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year.

Jerome Fine replies: While my experience has MOSTLY been in the opposite direction form the US to Canada, the few times I have sent items to the US, it has not been a problem. If you don't need to insure the shipment, then I still strongly agree that a nominal value of $ US 10 is MUCH better than zero since immediately the US customs (as is the same in Canada - all bureaucracy is really the same) will want to make an evaluation. HOWEVER, from what I understand, the value of the shipment and the insurance "tend" to correspond - although we both know that repairs are very often more than the worth of something. BUT, the shipper will not insure the merchandise for more than the declared value - of course, they are cooperating with customs, but when was that not the situation. One possible method is to say that the shipment is being returned under warranty for repair in the US where it was built. I expect that might get by most of the time, but not always. After all, if it had been sent to Canada and arrived broken, there would be a record of it being shipped in the first place. Normally, on shipments of a reasonable value, the country of origin is not questioned if stated as the US and the stuff has the name of the company which is located in the US. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year.