Comments please! Finding Vintage Computers - A Primer by Sellam Ismail sellam(a)vintage.org http://www.vintage.org 1st Edition - May 15, 2000 This primer is intended to give you ideas that will help you find vintage computers in and around your general vicinity. It was written to aid the many frustrated collectors who believe they have exhausted their local sources and still cannot find any old computers. Well, I assure you this is not the case. Old computers can be found in a lot of places that you did not consider. Keep these principles in mind when determining what to pay for old computers: * some people are just happy to have their old machine go to a new home * the bigger the machine, the less money it generally sells for * for some large machine, people are sometimes willing to pay you to haul it away Flea Markets/Ham Fests/Car Boot Sales We begin with the most obvious place to find vintage computers, the Flea Market/Ham Fest/Car Boot Sale (I will refer to them as "flea markets"). Flea markets can occur with frequent regularity or just occasionally, from several times a week to perhaps once a year. Usually they are comprised of people trying to get rid of their old junk. At the more general flea market, finding old computers is usually a challenge. Most of what you will find is the sort of junk that you already have stored away in your garage, basement, attic, closet, etc. But occasionally you will find old computers, and the advantage here is that most collectors won't bother with these sorts of flea markets, so the competition is low. You will be more likely to find vintage computers at Ham Fests as most radio guys (and gals) are also computer users. Many Hams were early adopters of microcomputers during the mid- to late-70's and as such are likely targets for finding some of the more interesting early micros such as S-100 bus machines as well as mini-computers. You can generally expect to pay prices in the range of $5 - $50 for most vintage computers that show up at these events. Occasionally stuff can be had for free, since the seller just wants to get rid of it, or you can wait until after the event is over and head over to the trash bins where you will find all the stuff the sellers didn't want to take back home with them. Haggling at flea markets is mandatory. Never pay more for an old computer than you have to. Learning how to haggle properly would take a whole other primer. The way to get good at it is to just go out and do it. If you don't find any vintage computers at Ham Fests, don't get discouraged. The fact is they just haven't found you. It might be well worth your while to rent a space at the next event and put up a table of your own. Display signs indicating you are interested in old computers. A lot of the people attending the ham fests as buyers also have old computers that they'd like to get rid of and you will meet many people this way. The price of a space is usually not very high, perhaps from $10-$50. To find Flea Markets/Ham Fests/Car Boot sales in your area, look in the classified ads section of your local paper or in the small classified periodicals, or check the upcoming events listings for your local fairgrounds as a lot of times those are venues for large flea markets. Better yet, hop on over to http://www.openair.org/ which is an excellent online resource for finding flea markets and ham fests in your area worldwide. Thrift/Charity Shops Another good place to find vintage computers is at your local Thrift (or Charity) store. Almost every city has at least one. The bigger cities will have many. The most common ones (in the United States anyway) are The Salvation Army, Goodwill and St. Vincent de Paul. In my experience, these are NOT good stores to find old computers. Usually they take all incoming computers and sell them at special sales. Or, if old computers do make it into the store, the pieces to it are usually not all together, or in some cases the parts to one computer may have been scattered across multiple stores. The better thrift stores to look in for old computers are the stand-alone stores or the for-profit chains. They usually won't sort through and separate the items and so you're more likely to find old computers at these. Prices vary from ridiculously cheap to just plain ridiculous. Some stores have no concept of a computer being obsolete. To them, a computer is an expensive, fancy device that is worth lots of money, and they price them accordingly. Others don't differentiate between an old computer and an old toaster, and will sell computer items at the same prices they sell the rest of their appliances, in many cases for only a few dollars or less. Some stores try to price computer items separately but can't tell the difference between modern day PC components and old computer parts, and as a result you'll see vintage machines selling for the same price as the more modern machines. Some thrift stores will slash the price of their items for every week that it does not sell. If something is priced too high you might wait until the following week and buy it at half off! Ask the store what their policy is. While you're at it, don't be afraid to make an offer on an item you are interested in. Haggling at thrift stores is OK. To find thrift stores, look in your local phone book, or check the web. Many of the larger institutions now have websites that will direct you to the nearest store. Search for them online. Electronics Surplus Shops If you can find them, electronics surplus shops are great places to find vintage computers. The prices are generally high at these stores but haggling is sometimes acceptable. It's always best to just ask. Look in your local phone book to find electronics surplus shops in your area. You also might want to try looking for general electronics repair shops, as they may have old computers laying about their shop as well. Colleges/Universities/Schools Schools are great places to find aging computers. Oft times an old machine is tucked away in a closet or basement and forgotten. Many schools have periodic rummage sales to sell off obsolete equipment. Ask the school administration if they have these sales and mark your calendar for the next one. You might also want to try contacting the teachers and professors directly as they may have knowledge of old computers that are no longer in use. The best ones to approach would be in the physical sciences departments: chemistry, physics, biology, etc. Of course, the Computer Science department would also be a good choice. Auctions An auction is sometimes a good place to find vintage computers, especially if it is an auction to liquidate the assets of a company that used computers in its operations. Look in the classified ads of your local paper to find out about upcoming auctions and estate sales in your area. Of course you can also try the online auctions. eBay is, of course, the most popular of the auction sites for finding vintage computers. However, competition is fierce, and as such prices are generally higher than you would pay at other venues. Bargains can be found by performing searches that locate items not listed in the categories specifically for old computers. Scrap/Salvage Yards If you're looking for "Old Iron", your most likely chance of finding it are in scrap yards. The precious metal content of big mainframes unfortunately sends many old computers to a frightful end. Try to find scrap yards in your area and ask the owner if they ever get old computers in. If they do, try to strike up a deal with them. Tell them you will pay them some amount over scrap value (for instance 10%) for any old machines they haul in. This will make it worth their while to work with you. Be forewarned: many scrap yard owners can be mean & nasty, and legends abound of various ones destroying perfectly good vintage equipment of all sorts either because you offered too low a price or just because you look funny. They are notoriously rude and generally just unstable people. Of course these are just generalizations, and your situation may vary. Classified Ads Of course you can always try searching the classified ads of your local paper, as some vintage computers do occasionally show up in the listings. Of course, don't neglect the Usenet for-sale newsgroups. Better yet, check for items listed for sale in the many newsgroups dedicated to specific computer platforms. Let Them Come to You One way to find vintage computers is to let them find you. Try placing an ad in the classifieds section of your local paper. Be sure to specify exactly what you are looking for to avoid getting a flood of false leads. In the very least, include a cut-off year indicating you are not interested in any computers manufactured after that year. Better yet, try posting an ad in one of the many Usenet newsgroups dedicated to older platforms. Or you can try posting an ad in one of your local for-sale newsgroups. The Traveling Nerd If you take frequent business trips to other areas, try scheduling time during your trip to search out old computers. The areas you visit may be fertile, untapped grounds for finding vintage machines. Upon arrival, check the phone book for any of the various sources listed above. You may also want to try to time your trips to coincide with any large flea markets or ham fests in the area and arrange to stay during the weekend so you can attend the event. Once you've acquired vintage computers whilst away from home, you'll soon realize you have to get them home somehow. This is not a problem. Most airlines allow two check-in bags (up to 65 pounds each) and two carry-on bags per passenger. Find a sturdy box and some packaging material and pack your findings, then check them in at the airport as your baggage. You can find boxes and packaging materials at a local mailing center, or at moving vehicle rental locations such as U-Haul. Pack your box well! Luggage is designed to absorb the abuse that the luggage handlers inflict upon it. Boxes are generally not. Use as much packing material as possible and pack it tight. If taking items back with you on the plane is not feasible, you can always just have the stuff shipped back to you at home by using your preferred shipping carrier (i.e. UPS, Fedex, etc.) Where Else? Finally, some other resources to try in your quest for vintage computers include: - Hi-tech companies in your local area, especially ones that have been around for a while and may have accumulated old machines - Local utilities (power, water, telephone) sometimes have surplus sales, and also have rather large dumpsters (skips) that are worth checking occasionally - Other collectors who are retiring from the hobby - Family, friends and neighbors and their family, friends and neighbors...tell everyone you know you collect old computers! Finally, if you live in an area where all of the above resources are either lacking or have consistently turned up nary a floppy drive, it might be worth your while to plan a weekend road trip to a major city nearby. Try to do research in advance to find out where all the thrift stores, flea markets and surplus shops are, and plot out an efficient route. Bring along a sizable vehicle, lots of money, and preferably a companion to keep you occupied during the boring long stretches. Above all, remember this: collecting vintage computers is an exercise in resourcefulness! Happy Collecting! Copyright (c) 2000 Vintage Computer Festival Sellam International Man of Intrigue and Danger ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Looking for a six in a pile of nines... Coming soon: VCF 4.0! VCF East: Planning in Progress See http://www.vintage.org for details!