5 Mar
2009
5 Mar
'09
1:30 p.m.
--------------Original Message:
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 14:39:41 -0800 (PST)
From: Fred Cisin <cisin at xenosoft.com>
Subject: Punched cards (Was: 1" paper tape buy ?
Does anybody object to changing the subject line?
My father used to claim that the only reason for existence of the
round-hole, 90, 96 column cards was that IBM patented the particular
rectangular shape of their holes.
He also claimed that IBM patented the whole idea of using a brass roller
for card reading, and that that ALMOST worked to cripple the rest of the
industry, until somebody finally got photocell card reading working.
--------------Reply:
IBM did indeed patent the rectangular holes used in their 80 column
cards. Whether the brass roller was a major factor is questionable;
after all, their competitors also used punched cards.
But there's no question that the general acceptance of IBM's card
format and their locked-in customers were instrumental in IBM
becoming the giant that they did; while their competitiors struggled
during and after the depression, punch card sales helped IBM survive
and grow. As late as the mid-fifties punch card sales represented
30% of IBM's bottom line; see:
http://www.cbi.umn.edu/hostedpublications/pdf/IBMRochesterHistory.pdf
mike
6 Mar
6 Mar
12:28 a.m.
M H Stein wrote:
IBM did indeed patent the rectangular holes used in their 80 column
cards. Whether the brass roller was a major factor is questionable;
after all, their competitors also used punched cards.
But there's no question that the general acceptance of IBM's card
format and their locked-in customers were instrumental in IBM
becoming the giant that they did; while their competitiors struggled
during and after the depression, punch card sales helped IBM survive
and grow. As late as the mid-fifties punch card sales represented
30% of IBM's bottom line; see:
http://www.cbi.umn.edu/hostedpublications/pdf/IBMRochesterHistory.pdf
OK, now I'm reminded of library-checkout punched cards from the 60's.
They were around the same size as the card-catalog cards so as to fit in the
same pocket in the front of the book. The funny thing about them was they
were punched along the edges with some combination of rectangular notches and
round holes, IIRC.
11:22 a.m.
OK, now I'm reminded of library-checkout punched
cards from the 60's.
They were around the same size as the card-catalog cards so as to fit in the
same pocket in the front of the book. The funny thing about them was they
were punched along the edges with some combination of rectangular notches and
round holes, IIRC.
Are those the ones you could 'search' by putting a metal rod through one
hole position in a stack of them and the extracting the cards with a hole
at that position and leaving the ones with a slot behind?
-tony
5:08 p.m.
On Fri, 6 Mar 2009, Tony Duell wrote:
At one point (not currently?), those were called Royal McBee EdgePunch.
OK, now
I'm reminded of library-checkout punched cards from the 60's.
They were around the same size as the card-catalog cards so as to fit in the
same pocket in the front of the book. The funny thing about them was they
were punched along the edges with some combination of rectangular notches and
round holes, IIRC.
Are those the ones you could 'search' by putting a metal rod through one
hole position in a stack of them and the extracting the cards with a hole
at that position and leaving the ones with a slot behind? 
5:16 p.m.
On 6 Mar 2009 at 17:08, Fred Cisin wrote:
I believe the NCR CRAM used a similar selection system.
--Chuck
Are those the ones you could 'search' by
putting a metal rod
through one
hole position
in a stack of them and the extracting the cards with a hole
at that position and leaving the ones with a slot behind?
At one point (not currently?), those were called Royal McBee EdgePunch. 
5:18 p.m.
OK, now I'm reminded of library-checkout punched
cards from the 60's.
They were around the same size as the card-catalog cards so as to fit
in the
same pocket in the front of the book. The funny thing about them was
they
were punched along the edges with some combination of rectangular
notches and
round holes, IIRC.
Are those the ones you could 'search' by putting a
metal rod through one
hole position in a stack of them and the extracting the cards with a hole
at that position and leaving the ones with a slot behind?
5:55 p.m.
On 6 Mar 2009 at 22:18, Alexandre Souza wrote:
I barely remember that, but I remember it was VERY VERY VERY interesting
at that time.
I remember I played sometime with that for HOURS :oD
I recall using a deck like that to identify plant species. The
"rods" were nothing more or less than knitting needles.
Cheers,
Chuck
> Are those the ones you could 'search' by
putting a metal rod
through one
hole position in a stack of them and the extracting
the cards with a hole
at that position and leaving the ones with a slot behind?
At one point (not
currently?), those were called Royal McBee EdgePunch. 
6:11 p.m.
At one point (not currently?), those were called Royal
McBee EdgePunch.
Also the Royal McBee Keysort system. Different makers called it E-Z
Sort and Flexisort.
It is actually a trinary system - hole, no hole, or slot.
Additionally, the edges could be multiple levels deep (generally two),
so you could do multiple level sorts.
--
Will
8 Mar
8 Mar
2:39 p.m.
[cards for sorting with needles]
William Donzelli asserted:
It is actually a trinary system - hole, no hole, or
slot.
Additionally, the edges could be multiple levels deep (generally two),
so you could do multiple level sorts.
Are you sure about the "no hole"? I query this for two reasons:
Firstly, the deck I have of blank ones has all the holes around the edge
pre-punched.
Secondly, how would you sort? If there are any cards at all in the deck
with the hole filled, you can't sort in a single operation. You have to
drill down to the filled hole and split the deck; extract the
filled-hole cards; and repeat until you've got to the end.
(To put it another way, you cannot detect any holes in cards sandwiched
between two filled-hole cards without splitting the deck)
I like the idea of a second hole, further in. This implements ternary
rather nicely: the states are no slot, shallow slot, deep slot. (Needle
in outer hole leaves all cards with slots. Needle in inner hole leaves
only cards with deep slots). A fourth state joining the two holes
without taking the slot to the edge is possible but not recommended,
because the cards don't come off the needle, they just hang at different
heights, making them harder to handle.
Philip.
9 Mar
9 Mar
4:38 a.m.
Are you sure about the "no hole"? ?I query
this for two reasons:
Firstly, the deck I have of blank ones has all the holes around the edge
pre-punched.
There were several makers of edge punch cards, all slightly different in format.
Secondly, how would you sort? ?If there are any cards
at all in the deck
with the hole filled, you can't sort in a single operation. ?You have to
drill down to the filled hole and split the deck; extract the filled-hole
cards; and repeat until you've got to the end.
Yes, not a useful a sort as the normal method of lifting the cards,
but still valid.
I like the idea of a second hole, further in. ?This
implements ternary
rather nicely: the states are no slot, shallow slot, deep slot.
That is true - I had not thought of that as trinary, but I suppose it
is. It seems that having multiple levels was more used for nested
searches.
--
Will
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