8 Jun
2000
8 Jun
'00
10:33 p.m.
On June 8, R. D. Davis wrote:
It's not only bizarre, it's apparently
someone's idea of a sick joke,
that the most boring and poorly designed systems are the ones that
most people depend on these days which have replaced the VAXen, etc.
A sick joke, indeed.
Is it not true, however, that all computers are toys,
and that PDP's,
VAXen and Crays could have been considered toys when they were new?
This is a good point. While I will slap anyone who walks into my
computer room (containing about twenty machines, no PCs, well over a
terabyte of disk storage, one Cray...some "classic" machines, some
not) and calls anything a "toy"...I enjoy working with these systems
so much that I can honestly call it "fun". As much fun as
retrocomputing on the older PDP and VAX systems, as a matter of
fact. So is it really that offensive to call them "toys"? Maybe not.
One must not forget, however, that there *are* PDPs, VAXen, and
Crays that are *not* so old. The PC marketeers would have everyone
believe that anything that isn't a PC is old technology. That
simply isn't the case. There are new (current technology) PDP11
systems (Mentec), there are new (albeit based on older technology)
VAXen, and there are certainly new Crays.
It's a stretch, but it seems that preserving "classic" computers is
almost an exercise in preserving anything that's not a current Windoze
box.
-Dave McGuire
9 Jun
9 Jun
8:09 a.m.
> Is it not true, however, that all computers are
toys, and that PDP's,
> VAXen and Crays could have been considered toys when they were new?
Toy: an object for exercise, diversion or amusement.
Yes I have some machines that may qualify. Most may qualify as they
are no longer used for revenue (often). However, at their time they were
serious machines built to do serious work for the most part. So the
closest thing I have to a toy is my trs80 (mod1).
The counter to that is: the guy running his machine tool with an old PDP-8
or Z80 box... Is he using a toy? I think not.
PCs I have a hard time takething them seriously despite their enormous
processing power. They arent built for the most part like a serviceable
and relaible tool.
Allison
10:55 a.m.
On Fri, 9 Jun 2000 allisonp(a)world.std.com wrote:
Toy: an object for exercise, diversion or amusement.
Sounds like a computer to me.
Yes I have some machines that may qualify. Most may
qualify as they
are no longer used for revenue (often). However, at their time they were
serious machines built to do serious work for the most part. So the
closest thing I have to a toy is my trs80 (mod1).
Serious humbug. They were built as expensive toys to play with. Now
then, pay careful attention: that doesn't mean that those treating
them as toys are careless with their work, they're just having fun and
most likely doing much better quality work as a result of their
enjoyment of their work. When work ceases to be fun, that's when the
bad mistakes, etc. occur due to boredom and an "I don't give a damn, I
just want a paycheck for showing up here each day." attitude sets in,
when the fun becomes finding creative ways of avoiding actually doing
much of any work, annoying certain annoying cow-prkers, etc., as there
must be some sort of motivation for at least showing up at work, where
fun is the motivation.
The counter to that is: the guy running his machine
tool with an old PDP-8
or Z80 box... Is he using a toy? I think not.
Why should he not think of that machine tool as a toy, esp. if he
enjoys his work and is good at it? Heck, he probably even has a pet
name for the machine.
No chauvenism intended, just a psychological curiosity:
Do I sense that men and women sometimes tend to think of work in the
computer field differently, with many women having a dreadfully
serious outlook on their work and men treating it more as something
that's supposed to be fun and games? Maybe this has something to do
with many men growing as boys playing with erector sets, heathkits,
building forts, and having soldering irons, hammers, screwdrivers,
etc. in their hands while they were still learning to read. Then,
after growing up, we still consider such things, whether a little PC,
an IBM mainframe, or even a multinational corporation, to be toys to
play with.
PCs I have a hard time takething them seriously
despite their enormous
processing power. They arent built for the most part like a serviceable
and relaible tool.
Well said.
--
R. D. Davis
rdd(a)perqlogic.com
http://www.perqlogic.com/rdd
410-744-4900
1:19 p.m.
On Fri, 9 Jun 2000, R. D. Davis wrote:
it is that persons perogative. generally toys are associated with
recreation though. Still, an NC mill is a fine toy.
On Fri, 9 Jun 2000 allisonp(a)world.std.com wrote:
;) could be.
Toy: an object for exercise, diversion or
amusement.
Sounds like a computer to me. Serious humbug. They were built as expensive toys to
play with. Now
then, pay careful attention: that doesn't mean that those treating
Well, I know people that play hard and work hard and both are the same
thing. Me for one. Electronics is hobby, serious study and what I do to
pay the bills. I enjoy it.
enjoyment of their work. When work ceases to be fun,
that's when the
bad mistakes, etc. occur due to boredom and an "I don't give a damn, I
;) Ah ha! True.
The counter to
that is: the guy running his machine tool with an old PDP-8
or Z80 box... Is he using a toy? I think not.
Why should he not think of that machine tool as a toy, esp. if he
enjoys his work and is good at it? Heck, he probably even has a pet
name for the machine. Do I sense that men and women sometimes tend to think
of work in the
computer field differently, with many women having a dreadfully
Not the women I know. Then again I hang in different circles where a job
is more than a means to an end.
with many men growing as boys playing with erector
sets, heathkits,
building forts, and having soldering irons, hammers, screwdrivers,
etc. in their hands while they were still learning to read. Then,
after growing up, we still consider such things, whether a little PC,
an IBM mainframe, or even a multinational corporation, to be toys to
play with.
With two brothers into all that I got to play and do as a result. However
to your last line... I build with wood too as that was my fathers
influence. When my toys can impact on others (running a multinational)
it's time to play seriously and hard. To borrow a line success is _fun_,
for lack of a better word.
I find it disappointing there are not more women in high Tech fields.
Allison
5:29 p.m.
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8983
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allisonp＠world.std.com -
ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk -
mcguire＠neurotica.com -
rdd＠smart.net