20 Apr
2017
20 Apr
'17
10:49 a.m.
Ben asks:
Just how big is the server?
As a wish list, I've always wanted that as a offline set of DVD's for the common
stuff.
The bitsavers archive is 267 Gbytes.
So at 4.7G per DVD, it comes out to almost 60 DVD's.
I remember a PDQ Bach radio quiz show where the prize was The Wagner Ring Cycle on
convenient 45 RPM records.
Tim N3QE
20 Apr
20 Apr
10:55 a.m.
On Thu, Apr 20, 2017 at 6:49 PM, Shoppa, Tim via cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
Ben asks:
That is not totally ridiculous....
Now, if I want bitsavers on paper tape....
Just how big is the server?
As a wish list, I've always wanted that as a offline set of DVD's for the common
stuff.
The bitsavers archive is 267 Gbytes.
So at 4.7G per DVD, it comes out to almost 60 DVD's.
I remember a PDQ Bach radio quiz show where the prize was The Wagner Ring
Cycle on convenient 45 RPM records.
Two things are now going through my mind...
Flanders and Swann :
"I've an opera here you shan't escape
On miles and miles of recording tape"
(from 'A song of reproduction')
And Blackadder
"The german reputation for cruelty is well founded
Their operas last several days"
-tony
8:48 p.m.
On Thu, Apr 20, 2017 at 8:27 PM, Rob Jarratt
<robert.jarratt at ntlworld.com> wrote:
My back of the envelope calculation comes to approximately
4 million miles of paper tape.
I think you're out by a factor of 10.... 267*10^9 bytes, divide by 10 as
there are 10 bytes to the inch on paper tape, and convert to miles. I
get just over 400,000 miles.
My rule of thumb is that a full reel of 1" paper tape is 100k bytes
So 10 for a megabyte
10000 for a gigabyte
2,670,000 for all of bitsavers. Perhaps nearer 3 million as it's an
approximation....
-tony
The
bitsavers archive is 267 Gbytes.
So at 4.7G per DVD, it comes out to almost 60 DVD's.
That is not totally ridiculous....
Now, if I want bitsavers on paper tape....
> 
10:26 p.m.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tony Duell via cctalk" <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
To: <rob at jarratt.me.uk>
Cc: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at
classiccmp.org>; "Shoppa, Tim" <tshoppa at wmata.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2017 11:48 PM
Subject: Re: Bitsavers size
On Thu, Apr 20, 2017 at 8:27 PM, Rob Jarratt
<robert.jarratt at ntlworld.com> wrote:
My back of the envelope calculation comes to approximately
4 million miles of paper tape.
I think you're out by a factor of 10.... 267*10^9 bytes, divide by 10 as
there are 10 bytes to the inch on paper tape, and convert to miles. I
get just over 400,000 miles.
My rule of thumb is that a full reel of 1" paper tape is 100k bytes
So 10 for a megabyte
10000 for a gigabyte
2,670,000 for all of bitsavers. Perhaps nearer 3 million as it's an
approximation....
-tony
----
I've got a couple of reels that I can contribute if you don't have quite
enough...
;-)
The
bitsavers archive is 267 Gbytes.
So at 4.7G per DVD, it comes out to almost 60 DVD's.
That is not totally ridiculous....
Now, if I want bitsavers on paper tape....
> 
21 Apr
21 Apr
10:24 a.m.
My back of the
envelope calculation comes to approximately
4 million miles of paper tape.
I think you're out by a factor of 10.... 267*10^9 bytes, divide by 10 as there are
10 bytes to the inch on paper tape, and convert to miles. I get just over 400,000
miles.
My rule of thumb is that a full reel of 1" paper
tape is 100k bytes So 10 for a
megabyte
10000 for a gigabyte
2,670,000 for all of bitsavers. Perhaps nearer 3 million as it's an
approximation....
10:35 a.m.
Bit savers is only 267 gigs?
On Apr 21, 2017 12:25 PM, "Rob Jarratt via cctalk" <cctalk at
classiccmp.org>
wrote:
there
are
My back
of the envelope calculation comes to approximately
4 million miles of paper tape.
I think you're out by a factor of 10.... 267*10^9 bytes, divide by 10 as 10 bytes to the inch on paper tape, and convert
to miles. I get just
over 400,000
miles.
Agreed, I measured a piece of paper tape I have here and got a figure of
0.9 inches per 10 bytes, so clearly just a bit of finger trouble somewhere
in my calculation. Still, almost enough for a round trip to the moon.
Regards
Rob
My rule of thumb is that a full reel of 1"
paper tape is 100k bytes So
10 for a
megabyte
10000 for a gigabyte
2,670,000 for all of bitsavers. Perhaps nearer 3 million as it's an
approximation....
10:42 a.m.
On Apr 21, 2017, at 12:24 PM, Rob Jarratt via cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
Agreed, I measured a piece of paper tape I have here and got a figure of 0.9 inches per
10 bytes, so clearly just a bit of finger trouble somewhere in my calculation. Still,
almost enough for a round trip to the moon.
Regards
Rob
ASCII correct? Not Murray, Western Union,Flexowriter or other ?
Anyone care to estimate how large the pile of chads will be?
Jerry
jsw at ieee.org
My back
of the envelope calculation comes to approximately
4 million miles of paper tape.
I think you're out by a factor of 10.... 267*10^9 bytes, divide by 10 as there are
10 bytes to the inch on paper tape, and convert to miles. I get just over 400,000
miles.
My rule of thumb is that a full reel of 1"
paper tape is 100k bytes So 10 for a
megabyte
10000 for a gigabyte
2,670,000 for all of bitsavers. Perhaps nearer 3 million as it's an
approximation....
11 a.m.
On Fri, Apr 21, 2017 at 6:24 PM, Rob Jarratt
<robert.jarratt at ntlworld.com> wrote:
Agreed, I measured a piece of paper tape I have here and got a figure of 0.9 inches
per 10 bytes, so clearly just a bit of finger trouble somewhere in my calculation.
I think you've made a fencepost error here. There will, indeed be 0.9" between
the centre line of one byte and that of the tenth byte after it. But
you are forgetting
to include the gap on one end of that block (if you see what I mean).
The holes on paper tape (at least the normal 5 level and 8 level
stuff, typesetter
tape may well be different) fall on a 0.1" matrix. I once made an emergency
splicing jig for paper tape using a bit of stripboard with some pins soldered
in. So there are exactly 10 characters per inch on paper tape.
My back
of the envelope calculation comes to approximately
4 million miles of paper tape.
I think you're out by a factor of 10.... 267*10^9 bytes, divide by 10 as there are
10 bytes to the inch on paper tape, and convert to miles. I get just over 400,000
miles.
Still, almost enough for a round trip to the moon.
True...
-tony
20 Apr
20 Apr
11:02 a.m.
From: Shoppa, Tim
Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2017 10:49 AM
Ben asks:
> Just how big is the server?
> As a wish list, I've always wanted that as a
offline set of DVD's for the
> common stuff.
The bitsavers archive is 267 Gbytes.
So at 4.7G per DVD, it comes out to almost 60
DVD's.
I remember a PDQ Bach radio quiz show where the prize
was The Wagner Ring
Cycle on convenient 45 RPM records.
I would suggest using Blue-Ray media, at 25GB or 50GB per disk. We're then
down to 6 or 11 platters.
Rich
Rich Alderson
Vintage Computing Sr. Systems Engineer
Living Computers: Museum + Labs
2245 1st Avenue S
Seattle, WA 98134
mailto:RichA at LivingComputers.org
http://www.LivingComputers.org/
2:12 p.m.
On Apr 20, 2017 1:59 PM, "Rich Alderson via cctalk" <cctalk at
classiccmp.org>
wrote:
I would suggest using Blue-Ray media, at 25GB or 50GB per disk. We're then
down to 6 or 11 platters.
What's the thoughput of a station wagon full of Blue-Ray discs hurtling
down the highway?
2:13 p.m.
At the risk of sounding like a nitpicker, I think that mainly depends on if
it's a motorway, a highway or the Autobahn.
/y
On Thu, 20 Apr 2017 at 22:12, Glen Slick via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
wrote:
On Apr 20, 2017 1:59 PM, "Rich Alderson via
cctalk" <cctalk at classiccmp.org
wrote:
I would suggest using Blue-Ray media, at 25GB or 50GB per disk. We're then
down to 6 or 11 platters.
What's the thoughput of a station wagon full of Blue-Ray discs hurtling
down the highway?
10:01 p.m.
Is there interesting of having a "comunity backup" of bitsavers in Brazil?
Here in Sao Paulo we have a network maintained by friends. When we meet, we
all r-sync our secondary backups and when we get home, r-sync the primary
backups. We have many data repositories in safe harbour, and we would be
interested in mirroring bitsavers too.
If it is ok, we can arrange ONE rsync via internet (or HD thru mail) and
share in Brazil.
Thanks
Alexandre
2017-04-20 18:13 GMT-03:00 Yvan Janssens via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org>:
At the risk of sounding like a nitpicker, I think that
mainly depends on if
it's a motorway, a highway or the Autobahn.
/y
On Thu, 20 Apr 2017 at 22:12, Glen Slick via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org
wrote:
> wrote:
> I would suggest using Blue-Ray media, at 25GB or 50GB per disk. We're
then
> down to 6 or 11 platters.
> What's the thoughput of a station wagon full of Blue-Ray discs hurtling
> down the highway?
On Apr 20, 2017 1:59 PM, "Rich Alderson via
cctalk" <
cctalk at classiccmp.org
>
21 Apr
21 Apr
7:14 a.m.
Alexandre wrote...
------
Is there interesting of having a "comunity backup" of bitsavers in Brazil?
------
I just host the main repository and rsyncd to the mirrors. The site is 100% owned and
maintained by Al Kossow. So.... you'd need to ask that question of Al as he's the
one that decides how many mirrors and where and who.
As I recall - two primary rules are that any mirrors that offer the content publicly, must
not make any presentation changes. They must mirror the site exactly as the original, no
changes to the files or presentation. In addition, the files all remain as bitsavers files
(you cant get a mirror, sync the contents, and then say it's all yours and represent
it as such, nor add your own files to it). Otherwise - no more mirror for you ;)
At least, that's my recollection. Of course, AEK is in charge of all that, I just
implement what he wishes :)
Questions or comments about this should all be directed to Al via email... his baby.
J
2:35 p.m.
The bitsavers
archive is 267 Gbytes.
So at 4.7G per DVD, it comes out to almost 60 DVD's.
I would suggest using
Blue-Ray media, at 25GB or 50GB per disk. We're then
down to 6 or 11 platters. 
11:04 a.m.
On 4/20/2017 11:49 AM, Shoppa, Tim via cctalk wrote:
Ben asks:
You mean I can get both! :)
Ben.
Just how big is the server?
As a wish list, I've always wanted that as a offline set of DVD's for the common
stuff.
The bitsavers archive is 267 Gbytes.
So at 4.7G per DVD, it comes out to almost 60 DVD's.
I remember a PDQ Bach radio quiz show where the prize was The Wagner Ring Cycle on
convenient 45 RPM records.
Tim N3QE 
11:14 a.m.
On Apr 20, 2017, at 1:49 PM, Shoppa, Tim via cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
Ben asks:
Or 6 dual-layer DB disks...
paul
Just how big is the server?
As a wish list, I've always wanted that as a offline set of DVD's for the common
stuff.
The bitsavers archive is 267 Gbytes.
So at 4.7G per DVD, it comes out to almost 60 DVD's. 
11:26 a.m.
On 04/20/2017 10:49 AM, Shoppa, Tim via cctalk wrote:
I remember a PDQ Bach radio quiz show where the prize
was The Wagner
Ring Cycle on convenient 45 RPM records.
Not to throw a wet blanket on Prof. Schickele's gag, but there *were*
(and still are--Standard Vinyl will cut them for you) 12" 45 RPM LPs.
As a matter of fact, you can occasionally find them offered on eBay.
Somewhere around 15 minutes play per side.
--Chuck
23 Apr
23 Apr
8:53 a.m.
On Thu, Apr 20, 2017 at 05:49:20PM +0000, Shoppa, Tim via cctalk wrote:
Ben asks:
Or a single LTO3 cartridge, with room to spare ;-)
Kind regards,
Alex.
--
"Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and
looks like work." -- Thomas A. Edison
Just how big is the server?
As a wish list, I've always wanted that as a offline set of DVD's for the common
stuff.
The bitsavers archive is 267 Gbytes.
So at 4.7G per DVD, it comes out to almost 60 DVD's. 
24 Apr
24 Apr
4:30 a.m.
On 23 April 2017 at 16:53, Alexander Schreiber via cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
Or a single LTO3 cartridge, with room to spare ;-)
So what we need to do is calculate the bandwidth of a truck full of
LTO-3 tapes hurtling down a highway, surely?
--
Liam Proven ? Profile: https://about.me/liamproven
Email: lproven at cix.co.uk ? Google Mail/Talk/Plus: lproven at gmail.com
Twitter/Facebook/Flickr: lproven ? Skype/LinkedIn/AIM/Yahoo: liamproven
UK: +44 7939-087884 ? ?R/WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal: +420 702 829 053
4:01 p.m.
On 4/24/2017 5:30 AM, Liam Proven via cctalk wrote:
On 23 April 2017 at 16:53, Alexander Schreiber via
cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
Trucks only come with bales of hay,babes and a few dusty 8 tracks.
:)
Or a single LTO3 cartridge, with room to spare
;-)
So what we need to do is calculate the bandwidth of a truck full of
LTO-3 tapes hurtling down a highway, surely?
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23 comments
17 participants
participants (17)
-
alexandre.tabajara＠gmail.com -
als＠thangorodrim.ch -
ard.p850ug1＠gmail.com -
bfranchuk＠jetnet.ab.ca -
cclist＠sydex.com -
cisin＠xenosoft.com -
glen.slick＠gmail.com -
infected＠analprolap.se -
jsw＠ieee.org -
jwest＠classiccmp.org -
lproven＠gmail.com -
mhs.stein＠gmail.com -
paulkoning＠comcast.net -
RichA＠livingcomputers.org -
robert.jarratt＠ntlworld.com -
tdk.knight＠gmail.com -
tshoppa＠wmata.com