26 Jan
2010
26 Jan
'10
5:43 p.m.
I've looked into this a bit.
As noted previously, it is essentially impossible to figure out exact shipments of 8051,
as there is no central clearinghouse of licensees, and there are literally dozens of
suppliers sticking 8051 IP in all sorts of things. That said, according to the only
reasonably well cited analyst report I have (from Emitt Solutions), the 8051 architecture
accounted for 19% of the US$4.9 billion 8-bit MPU market in 2007. If you wave your hand
and say the average volume price across all 8051 variants is US$0.25 (a number I think is
probably high), that's around 40 billion units shipped in 2007.
According the Annual Report for ARM Holdings, Plc., there were shipped 2.6 billion ARM
processors for mobile applications and 1.4 billion in other applications from all licenses
in 2008. This was up from around 3 billion units in 2007 (in a total market for 32-bit
embedded processors of around US$3.8B). Safe to assume it was more than that in 2009. Not
sure what that represents as a revenue number, as ARM Holdings revenue numbers are for
licensing fees. However, one could guess it's a market of significantly more than
US$4b across all licensees in 2008.
By comparison, Freescale did around US$1.88B in microcontroller sales, but that was across
all their lines (including the still very popular 68xx/HC lines), so is safe to assume the
actual units shipped for PPC is a fraction of ARM numbers. I know there are other PPC
licensees, but I don't think they're going to make up that gap.
All analysts agree that the 8-bit market is eroding and the 32-bit world is exploding,
from a market share if not revenue perspective.
KJ
26 Jan
26 Jan
6:33 p.m.
On 26/01/2010 22:43, Ken Seefried wrote:
I've looked into this a bit.
:-) You've saved me some work there!
As noted previously, it is essentially impossible to
figure out exact
shipments of 8051 [...]
If you wave your hand and say the average volume price
across all 8051 variants is US$0.25 (a number I think is probably
high), that's around 40 billion units shipped in 2007.
I must admit that's more than I thought... more than 100 million a day.
According the Annual Report for ARM Holdings, Plc.,
there were
shipped 2.6 billion ARM processors for mobile applications and 1.4
billion in other applications from all licenses in 2008. This was up
from around 3 billion units in 2007 (in a total market for 32-bit
embedded processors of around US$3.8B).
So that's roughly 1/10 of the 8051 units, and I'm forced to concede I
was wrong about ARM being most prolific.
By comparison, Freescale did around US$1.88B in
microcontroller
sales, but that was across all their lines (including the still very
popular 68xx/HC lines), so is safe to assume the actual units shipped
for PPC is a fraction of ARM numbers. I know there are other PPC
licensees, but I don't think they're going to make up that gap.
All analysts agree that the 8-bit market is eroding and the 32-bit
world is exploding, from a market share if not revenue perspective.
There's an awful lot of 32-bit parts in things that don't really need
that sort of grunt. I'm reminded of a colleague who told me his friend
was working on fuses for explosives -- building PICs into the detonators.
--
Pete Peter Turnbull
Network Manager
University of York
7:09 p.m.
On 26 Jan 2010 at 23:33, Pete Turnbull wrote:
There's an awful lot of 32-bit parts in things
that don't really need
that sort of grunt. I'm reminded of a colleague who told me his
friend was working on fuses for explosives -- building PICs into the
detonators.
That trend will probably continue with the Cortex M0 chips coming
out. Just as cheap as the PIC and AVR and 8051 types.
--Chuck
7:47 p.m.
On Jan 26, 2010, at 7:09 PM, Chuck Guzis wrote:
That's pretty scary stuff. I will laugh in the face of the
"engineer" who designs a 32-bit processor into a refrigerator.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire
Port Charlotte, FL
There's an
awful lot of 32-bit parts in things that don't really need
that sort of grunt. I'm reminded of a colleague who told me his
friend was working on fuses for explosives -- building PICs into the
detonators.
That trend will probably continue with the Cortex M0 chips coming
out. Just as cheap as the PIC and AVR and 8051 types. 
7:52 p.m.
Dave McGuire wrote:
That's pretty scary stuff. I will laugh in the
face of the "engineer"
who designs a 32-bit processor into a refrigerator.
Umm your ice dispensor needs a
net address for haveing a cold drink
made from you cell plhone.
-Dave
Other than cell phones, I think 8051 is
everything but toasters and
waffle irons.
Ben.
Now back to my bit slice design slower than a 8080A.
Where on this schematic capture program anything about edge connector
fingers.???
8:01 p.m.
On 26 Jan 2010 at 19:47, Dave McGuire wrote:
That's pretty scary stuff. I will laugh in the
face of the
"engineer" who designs a 32-bit processor into a refrigerator.
Remove the "32-bit" from your sentence and you my sentiments.
True story--my sister-in-law is legally blind and usually quite self-
sufficient. When she and her husband decided to remodel their
kitchen, they couldn't find a new electric range with knobs that
would give a tactile indication of which burner was on and the level.
Just buttons and displays. Which is very dangerous if you can't
see. I don't understand why anyone would design a dishwasher with a
CPU in it--surely that has to be one of the most hostile environments
in the home.
I like my radios with tuning knobs and really thougth the volume knob
on my old HP PC keyboard was pretty neat. I'm thinking about how I
might add one to a Model M.
--Chuck
8:05 p.m.
New subject: Douglas Goodall releases his PowerC DOS utils into PD...
Douglas Goodall has released the source and executables of his PowerC
Utilities for DOS. Available at
http://server.goodall.com/~doug/pub/development/powerc
These utilities do things such as read floppy images into disk files,
restore disk files to floppies, read sectors and make C header files
from the sectors, read prom images from a Data I/O 280
Set Programmer,
dump files in hex and ascii. Also is included code to low-level
format
floppies.
27 Jan
27 Jan
5:09 p.m.
Chuck Guzis wrote:
On 26 Jan 2010 at 19:47, Dave McGuire wrote:
The odd thing there is that I've seen knobs and switches and such 'tactile'
devices at the high end of the market - so it sounds almost as though buttons
and displays has become cheaper than the "old fashioned" way of doing things
on the low-end stuff.
That's pretty scary stuff. I will laugh
in the face of the
"engineer" who designs a 32-bit processor into a refrigerator.
Remove the "32-bit" from your sentence and you my sentiments.
True story--my sister-in-law is legally blind and usually quite self-
sufficient. When she and her husband decided to remodel their
kitchen, they couldn't find a new electric range with knobs that
would give a tactile indication of which burner was on and the level. I like my radios with tuning knobs and really thougth
the volume knob
on my old HP PC keyboard was pretty neat.
I've got a real hankering after 1970's Pioneer audio gear at the moment - not
because of the audio quality (or lack thereof) but because their knobs and
switches had such a nice feel to them...
cheers
Jules
6:28 p.m.
On Jan 27, 2010, at 5:09 PM, Jules Richardson wrote:
--
Dave McGuire
Port Charlotte, FL
The odd thing there is that I've seen knobs and
switches and such
'tactile' devices at the high end of the market - so it sounds
almost as though buttons and displays has become cheaper than the
"old fashioned" way of doing things on the low-end stuff.
Well, the reasoning for this is simple.
Toggle switches are very expensive, and so are knobs: variable
resistors, rotary switches, and shaft encoders, typically in order of
increasing expense. Pushbutton switches are a bit cheaper but still
pretty pricey.
Membrane switches, on the other hand, are dirt cheap. They're
produced via a printing process. Logic is also cheap.
-Dave
8:23 p.m.
On 27 Jan 2010 at 18:28, Dave McGuire wrote:
Membrane switches, on the other hand, are dirt
cheap. They're
produced via a printing process. Logic is also cheap.
All very true, but will a cell phone turn on your oven if it's knob-
operated?
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/23/nyregion/23about.html
I'm also deeply suspicious about the safety of "soft" power switches
that seem to be everywhere nowadays.
--Chuck
9:38 p.m.
On Wed, 27 Jan 2010, Chuck Guzis wrote:
All very true, but will a cell phone turn on your oven
if it's knob-
operated?
With a 32 bit processor in it, . . .
it should be able to analyze your past eating habits, and project that you
will want the oven pre-heated, so that the OS can proceed to do exactly
opposite of what you want.
http://monster-island.org/tinashumor/humor/mstvdin.html
There are earlier editions that were written by somebody without a clue of
OS syntax and punctuation, and later editions expanded with further
corrections that have systematically been removed, because they didn't
praise Microsoft and Apple.
10:26 p.m.
On Jan 27, 2010, at 8:23 PM, Chuck Guzis wrote:
Niiiiiice. A little shielding goes a long way!
Membrane
switches, on the other hand, are dirt cheap. They're
produced via a printing process. Logic is also cheap.
All very true, but will a cell phone turn on your oven if it's knob-
operated?
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/23/nyregion/23about.html I'm also deeply suspicious about the safety of
"soft" power switches
that seem to be everywhere nowadays.
Yeah I've always had an issue with those. There are several
things that I just unplug because of them.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire
Port Charlotte, FL
9:47 p.m.
On 1/27/10, Dave McGuire <mcguire at neurotica.com> wrote:
On Jan 27, 2010, at 5:09 PM, Jules Richardson wrote:
Holes are expensive, too. Years ago, I worked for a company that made
a telephone line simulator that fit into a standard gray PacTec box.
The front and back panels were machined and silkscreened, and the next
most expensive part of the entire product after the 4-layer PCB.
These days, laser cutting is cheaper than machining, but even with
that, there's still RF leakage (FCC approval) and manual assembly that
make knobs more expensive than the alternative.
That said, I still enjoy UIs with lights, knobs, and switches, but
have come to expect them less and less on consumer items.
-ethan
The odd thing there is that I've seen knobs
and switches and such
'tactile' devices at the high end of the market - so it sounds
almost as though buttons and displays has become cheaper than the
"old fashioned" way of doing things on the low-end stuff.
Well, the reasoning for this is simple.
Toggle switches are very expensive, and so are knobs: variable
resistors, rotary switches, and shaft encoders, typically in order of
increasing expense. Pushbutton switches are a bit cheaper but still
pretty pricey. 
10:48 p.m.
Holes are expensive, too. ?Years ago, I worked for a
company that made
a telephone line simulator that fit into a standard gray PacTec box.
The front and back panels were machined and silkscreened, and the next
most expensive part of the entire product after the 4-layer PCB.
Things get really bad when shaping and welding the metal come into
play. The US Robotic Total Control chassis, the rackmount box that
held about 20 modems, cost USR $632.00. Just the metal box. No circuit
boards, no backplanes, no power supplies, no wires, no fans, no
nothing.
--
Will
10:51 p.m.
On Jan 27, 2010, at 10:48 PM, William Donzelli wrote:
You could drive a car over one of those with no ill effects, though!
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire
Port Charlotte, FL
Holes are
expensive, too. Years ago, I worked for a company that
made
a telephone line simulator that fit into a standard gray PacTec box.
The front and back panels were machined and silkscreened, and the
next
most expensive part of the entire product after the 4-layer PCB.
Things get really bad when shaping and welding the metal come into
play. The US Robotic Total Control chassis, the rackmount box that
held about 20 modems, cost USR $632.00. Just the metal box. No circuit
boards, no backplanes, no power supplies, no wires, no fans, no
nothing.
10:56 p.m.
Dave McGuire wrote:
On Jan 27, 2010, at 10:48 PM, William Donzelli wrote:
You could drive a car over one of those with no ill effects, though!
-Dave
I don't know. Cars arn't cheap any more!
Ben.
Holes are
expensive, too. Years ago, I worked for a company that made
a telephone line simulator that fit into a standard gray PacTec box.
The front and back panels were machined and silkscreened, and the next
most expensive part of the entire product after the 4-layer PCB.
Things get really bad when shaping and welding the metal come into
play. The US Robotic Total Control chassis, the rackmount box that
held about 20 modems, cost USR $632.00. Just the metal box. No circuit
boards, no backplanes, no power supplies, no wires, no fans, no
nothing.
5:05 p.m.
On Jan 27, 2010, at 5:02 PM, Jules Richardson wrote:
ROFL!
--
Dave McGuire
Port Charlotte, FL
That's
pretty scary stuff. I will laugh in the face of the
"engineer" who designs a 32-bit processor into a refrigerator.
I've been tempted to duct-tape a CRT TV to our 30 year old fridge,
just to make it look like one of the current generation ;)
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bfranchuk＠jetnet.ab.ca -
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curt＠atarimuseum.com -
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