23 Apr
1999
23 Apr
'99
12:03 a.m.
The previous comment should have made it obvious it was NOT within the reach
of the "average" American. First of all, it was over a month's pay for the
average American, it was equivalent to six months' groceries for a family of
four, and you could get a refrigerator or a washer, neither of which were
routine discretionary expenditures for the "average" American of that time.
That was during and immediately after the Korean war, when a 4-bedroom house
on a 1/4-acre lot cost $4600. That same house, now, in California would
cost you $4600 a month to rent. People's attitudes about what's important
enough to spend your money on have changed considerably.
$300 was not an expenditure an "average" American would consider lightly in
1952. That was the year I came to this country. There was an election
between Adlai E. Stevenson (Democrat) and Dwight D. Eisenhower (Republican).
It was BEFORE the first test of a hydrogen bomb.
People weren't crazy then as they are now . . . and all the loose nuts
hadn't yet learned to run to California.
Dick
-----Original Message-----
From: Sellam Ismail <dastar(a)ncal.verio.com>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Thursday, April 22, 1999 10:16 PM
Subject: Re: The "FIRST PC" and personal timelines (Was: And what were
the80s
dastar(a)siconic.com
On Thu, 22 Apr 1999, Richard Erlacher wrote:
> No, what's relevant isn't the technology and its state of maturity, but
the
> comparison of the relative value of the numbers.
Today, it's just
assumed
> that if you buy an item for $300 and it
subsequently breaks, you shrug
your
> shoulders and throw it away. Back in the
'50's, not many people were
silly
enough to do
that.
So what? $300, even back in the 50s, was still realistically within the
price range of the average American. A multi-million dollar mainframe was
not. $300 vs $$$millions is a significant difference.
Sellam Alternate e-mail:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
Don't rub the lamp if you don't want the genie
to come out.
Coming this October 2-3: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0!
See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
[Last web site update: 04/03/99]
23 Apr
23 Apr
12:19 a.m.
On Thu, 22 Apr 1999, Richard Erlacher wrote:
The previous comment should have made it obvious it
was NOT within the reach
of the "average" American. First of all, it was over a month's pay for
the
average American, it was equivalent to six months' groceries for a family of
four, and you could get a refrigerator or a washer, neither of which were
routine discretionary expenditures for the "average" American of that time.
That was during and immediately after the Korean war, when a 4-bedroom house
on a 1/4-acre lot cost $4600. That same house, now, in California would
cost you $4600 a month to rent. People's attitudes about what's important
enough to spend your money on have changed considerably.
Don't you mean YOUR attitudes, Richard? Get this through your thick
skull: YOU do NOT represent the mass thought process of humans. Time and
again you insist on applying your OWN personal values and opinions upon
the rest of the world when you make an assertion, and fail to realize
there are 6 billion people out there with ideas differing from your own.
$300 was not an expenditure an "average"
American would consider lightly in
1952. That was the year I came to this country. There was an election
between Adlai E. Stevenson (Democrat) and Dwight D. Eisenhower (Republican).
It was BEFORE the first test of a hydrogen bomb.
Sure, but the point is that it could CONCEIVABLY have been afforded by
anyone who wished to save their money for 6 months so they could collect
the parts together to build one. Just because YOU would not have chosen
to build one does not mean everyone else in the world would have made that
same choice. Everyone on the planet does not share your values, contrary
to your belief and opinion.
I know if I were alive back then, and I had the same excitement for
computers that I do today, and an opportunity to build my own computer
came up for 1/10th of my yearly salary, I sure as hell would have saved
the money to build one.
1/10th of the average American's yearly salary is about $3,000 these days
(thereabouts) and I know plenty of people who would save up that amount to
buy a righteous computer with all the trimmings in our time. So $300 out
of a $3,600 yearly salary (or whatever) back then is not only possible but
very do-able.
People weren't crazy then as they are now . . .
and all the loose nuts
hadn't yet learned to run to California.
Whatever.
Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Don't rub the lamp if you don't want the genie to come out.
Coming this October 2-3: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0!
See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
[Last web site update: 04/03/99]
11:29 a.m.
> The previous comment should have made it obvious
it was NOT within the reach
> of the "average" American. First of all, it was over a month's pay
for the
> average American, it was equivalent to six months' groceries for a family of
> four, and you could get a refrigerator or a washer, neither of which were
> routine discretionary expenditures for the "average" American of that
time.
> That was during and immediately after the Korean war, when a 4-bedroom house
> on a 1/4-acre lot cost $4600. That same house, now, in California would
> cost you $4600 a month to rent. People's attitudes about what's important
> enough to spend your money on have changed considerably.
Don't you mean YOUR attitudes, Richard? Get this
through your thick
skull: YOU do NOT represent the mass thought process of humans. Time and
again you insist on applying your OWN personal values and opinions upon
the rest of the world when you make an assertion, and fail to realize
there are 6 billion people out there with ideas differing from your own.
Hey, Sallam, don't forget to considere the possibility that these
5 to 6 Billions (maybe minus 0.2 Billions US citicens) might have
the same opinions as Dick - just as a possibility.
> $300 was not an expenditure an
"average" American would consider lightly in
> 1952. That was the year I came to this country. There was an election
> between Adlai E. Stevenson (Democrat) and Dwight D. Eisenhower (Republican).
> It was BEFORE the first test of a hydrogen bomb.
Sure, but the point is that it could CONCEIVABLY have
been afforded by
anyone who wished to save their money for 6 months so they could collect
the parts together to build one. Just because YOU would not have chosen
to build one does not mean everyone else in the world would have made that
same choice. Everyone on the planet does not share your values, contrary
to your belief and opinion.
In fact, both of you are part right. I can only add my personal
experiance, where I put out almost 8 times of my monthly payment
(as First Private) to getn an naked Apple ][ (Even with my later,
first civilian Job it would have been almost 2.5 wages), and I had
to take a bank loan - but I did it - I _wanted_ a _big_ computer
(before that I had a selfbuild 2650 system and a KIM) - So, a
500 USD system might have been possible even in the 50s - if
realy intersted - but 500 USD was _way_ to low.
1/10th of the average American's yearly salary is
about $3,000 these days
(thereabouts) and I know plenty of people who would save up that amount to
buy a righteous computer with all the trimmings in our time. So $300 out
of a $3,600 yearly salary (or whatever) back then is not only possible but
very do-able.
There are still differences Sallam - not only numerical - the amount
of free usable money is higher, not only in numbers than back then
(see also Alisons calculation)
> People weren't crazy then as they are now . .
. and all the loose nuts
> hadn't yet learned to run to California.
Whatever.
Must be true, Now I'm able to run for California
(and I'll do it again for VCF3.0 :).
Gruss
H.
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Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut
HRK
5:37 p.m.
New subject: The "FIRST PC" and personal timelines (Was: And what were t
On 22 Apr 99 at 22:19, Sellam Ismail wrote:
On Thu, 22 Apr 1999, Richard Erlacher wrote:
Naaah, you would have bought a Sax or Trumpet. Or maybe a really cool
Indian Motorcycle. Or chopped and channelled an old model B Ford and put in
a 59A block with a 3/4 cam and dual carbs. A computer ? Only some weird
ultra straight with social problems would be interested and dedicated enough
to go that route.
ciao larry
lwalker(a)interlog.com
Let us know of your upcoming computer events for our Events Page.
t3c(a)xoommail.com
Collectors List and info http://members.xoom.com/T3C
The previous comment should have made it obvious
it was NOT within the reach
of the "average" American. First of all, it was over a month's pay for
the
average American, it was equivalent to six months' groceries for a family of
four, and you could get a refrigerator or a washer, neither of which were
routine discretionary expenditures for the "average" American of that time.
That was during and immediately after the Korean war, when a 4-bedroom house
on a 1/4-acre lot cost $4600. That same house, now, in California would
cost you $4600 a month to rent. People's attitudes about what's important
enough to spend your money on have changed considerably.
Don't you mean YOUR attitudes, Richard? Get this through your thick
skull: YOU do NOT represent the mass thought process of humans. Time and
again you insist on applying your OWN personal values and opinions upon
the rest of the world when you make an assertion, and fail to realize
there are 6 billion people out there with ideas differing from your own.
$300 was not an expenditure an
"average" American would consider lightly in
1952. That was the year I came to this country. There was an election
between Adlai E. Stevenson (Democrat) and Dwight D. Eisenhower (Republican).
It was BEFORE the first test of a hydrogen bomb.
Sure, but the point is that it could CONCEIVABLY have been afforded by
anyone who wished to save their money for 6 months so they could collect
the parts together to build one. Just because YOU would not have chosen
to build one does not mean everyone else in the world would have made that
same choice. Everyone on the planet does not share your values, contrary
to your belief and opinion.
I know if I were alive back then, and I had the same excitement for
computers that I do today, and an opportunity to build my own computer
came up for 1/10th of my yearly salary, I sure as hell would have saved
the money to build one.
1/10th of the average American's yearly salary is about $3,000 these days
(thereabouts) and I know plenty of people who would save up that amount to
buy a righteous computer with all the trimmings in our time. So $300 out
of a $3,600 yearly salary (or whatever) back then is not only possible but
very do-able.
People weren't crazy then as they are now . .
. and all the loose nuts
hadn't yet learned to run to California.
Whatever.
Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
24 Apr
24 Apr
10:20 a.m.
New subject: The "FIRST PC" and personal timelines (Was: And what were t
On Fri, 23 Apr 1999, Lawrence Walker wrote:
Naaah, you would have bought a Sax or Trumpet. Or maybe
a really cool
Indian Motorcycle. Or chopped and channelled an old model B Ford and put in
a 59A block with a 3/4 cam and dual carbs. A computer ? Only some weird
ultra straight with social problems would be interested and dedicated enough
to go that route.
Speaking of which, wasn't the Zuse built on a kitchen table in the
mid-30's? Wouldn't that make _it_ the first personal computer?
--Max Eskin (max82(a)surfree.com)
http://scivault.hypermart.net: Ignorance is Impotence - Knowledge is Power
23 Apr
23 Apr
12:27 a.m.
At 11:03 PM 4/22/99 -0600, Richard Erlacher wrote:
$300 was not an expenditure an "average"
American would consider lightly in
1952.
SNIP.
Until recently, the "Average Selling Price" for a "personal" computer
was
between $2,500 and $3,000. This is, if I may say so, a months pay for a lot
of US residents today. The _only_ difference was that in 1952 there wasn't
a compelling need for a computer like there was for a car. Therefore,
computers were the "toys" of the highly paid, and $300 would not have been
much of a hurdle for them. (they bought sports cars after all to race on
weekends)
The last 12 - 18 months and the "sub-1000" then "sub-500" dollar PC is
an
anomaly as PCs transitions from are recognizably computers into something
that is much more like your microwave oven. Except in this case it will be
a web surfing, text editing, and email communicating station. Those of us
who are buying these machines and setting them up as UNIX servers are way
in the minority :-)
--Chuck
6:49 a.m.
New subject: The "FIRST PC" and personal timelines (Was: And what were the80s
The previous comment should have made it obvious it was
NOT within the reach
of the "average" American. First of all, it was over a month's pay for the
average American, it was equivalent to six months' groceries for a family of
It wasn't a money issue, they were functionally worthless to all but a
handfull of people due to lack of game software.
7:51 a.m.
It wasn't a money issue, they were functionally worthless to all but a
handfull of people due to lack of game software.
Ah therein lies the standard. Lunar lander was not good software and
nothing short being able to run simcity or Doom qualifies as a computer
worthy of the moniker "personal computer"/
This is crap!
Allison
11:26 a.m.
New subject: The "FIRST PC" and personal timelines (Was: And what were
It wasn't
a money issue, they were functionally worthless to all but a
handfull of people due to lack of game software.
Ah therein lies the standard.
Lunar lander was not good software and
nothing short being able to run simcity or Doom qualifies as a computer
worthy of the moniker "personal computer"/
This is crap!
11:46 a.m.
New subject: The "FIRST PC" and personal timelines (Was: And what were
"standards of usability", and considers that
the "unusable" predecessors
"don't count" towards being "FIRST". For some it's PRICE;
for some it's
internal characteristics; but for MOST, it's the ability to run the
software that that user thinks is significant.
I'd say it's fair to differentiate those that had to be toggled to life or
some such but there were already many systems that were turnkey and ran
significant software without investing in an engineering degree. However
in the age of retro-revisionism and the advent of the dumbing down of the
populace I would then contend the machine that wipes ones fanny is still
wanting. While games are a real challenge and make their authors big
bucks Its relevence to a word processor or spread sheet (two killer apps)
is barely there. I would contend that the apple and cpm machine that
could run visicalc (Dbase, Multiplan and so on) are the real contenders
for the PC revolution.
Somewhere in all this pony manure is the pony I always wanted. In the
mean time I keep digging.. ;)
Allison
1:06 p.m.
New subject: The "FIRST PC" and personal timelines (Was: And what were the80s
It wasn't a money issue, they were functionally worthless to all but a
handfull of people due to lack of game software.
Ah therein lies the standard. Lunar lander was not good software and
nothing short being able to run simcity or Doom qualifies as a computer
worthy of the moniker "personal computer"/
11:18 a.m.
>The previous comment should have made it obvious
it was NOT within the reach
>of the "average" American. First of all, it was over a month's pay for
the
>average American, it was equivalent to six months' groceries for a family of
It wasn't a money issue, they were functionally
worthless to all but a
handfull of people due to lack of game software.
Lack of game software ?
THEY HAD SWITCHES !
:))
H.
--
Stimm gegen SPAM: http://www.politik-digital.de/spam/de/
Vote against SPAM: http://www.politik-digital.de/spam/en/
Votez contre le SPAM: http://www.politik-digital.de/spam/fr/
Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut
HRK
7:39 a.m.
of the "average" American. First of all, it
was over a month's pay for the
average American, it was equivalent to six months' groceries for a family of
four, and you could get a refrigerator or a washer, neither of which were
routine discretionary expenditures for the "average" American of that time.
That was during and immediately after the Korean war, when a 4-bedroom house
on a 1/4-acre lot cost $4600. That same house, now, in California would
cost you $4600 a month to rent. People's attitudes about what's important
enough to spend your money on have changed considerably.
The nubers you quote are not universal or reflected everywhere in the
US.
On LI NY, 1960:
My father made roughly 100$ take home.
My mother made 54$ as nurses aid.
My parent house cost $18,000 in 1957 (1/3 acre)
Neither car was never than three years old.
A washer was 110$
A dryer (electric) was 122$
Bazooka gum was 1 cent a piece
Weeks food from the A&P for 5 was ~33$
The PDP-1 was considered groundbreaking for it's low
price of $120,000.
By 1964
a 19 inch portable black and white TV was 120$ and still used
tubes.
In 1971
A new chevy pickup was 2700$
A used 8i system could be had for 2-3000 with peripherals(disks)
A new Cincinatti Milichron CM2000 basic machine was $2000.
in short use real numbers.
Allison
7:52 a.m.
New subject: Removing paint & magic marker graffiti from computer cases
I've got a couple of Commodore PETs that need to be cleaned up.
I'd like to restore them to like new condition...the only problem
is some markings on the systems.
Any ideas on how to remove from the metal case (with damaging the
painted surface underneath)
- Spray paint (numbers)
- Permanent magic marker (more numbers)
Thanks,
Chandra
11:18 a.m.
New subject: Removing paint & magic marker graffiti from computer cases
I've got a couple of Commodore PETs that need to
be cleaned up.
I'd like to restore them to like new condition...the only problem
is some markings on the systems.
Any ideas on how to remove from the metal case (with
damaging the
painted surface underneath)
- Spray paint (numbers)
- Permanent magic marker (more numbers)
Depending on the Modell - if it's one of the SK/LP/HP CBMs,
I recomend a ... ups, now I got problems since I don't know
exact american namings and brands - I would recomend ATA
(thats a brandname, but also used generic for most brands
of not aggressive Scheuerpulver (scpuring agent (?)) with
an aprobiate hard sponge (non metall), since the 'rough'
surface accepts microscratches, and the coulour used is
thick enough to allow this procedure - don't use any kind
of sandpaper.
For Metall case PET/CBMs with the rough surface the same
method might be usefull, but you have to prpare the Scheuer-
pulver with water in a seperate place, to avoide the first,
hard contact - also add some sadditional soup and use a soft
sponge with less pessure - you might need to polish it later
on with polish materials for cars.
For the smooth surface (early) models, I recomend only soap
and a sponge - and a real lot of rubbing. Also some helpers
as used for car paint refurbishing are usefull.
All this will only work to remove non aggressive markers.
If the markers have interacted deeply with the paint, and
or if spray paint is used, you have to do an repaint job.
take a medium to fine Schmirgelpapier and remove the unwanted
paint, until is is completly gone - try to take of material
all over at the same rate. if done well it might be enough
original paint still on the surface that you only need to
add a new gloss-paint layer - if not, considere to unpaint
whole case and give it to a car painting company for the
job to do it (including new paint of course.
The main problem is that you have to prepare all parts the
same way, since it would look terrible if only one side of
the pet is 'redone'
Gruss
H.
(There has been an Idea of a workshop on Computer cleaning
vor VCF 3.0 - Sallam ?)
--
Stimm gegen SPAM: http://www.politik-digital.de/spam/de/
Vote against SPAM: http://www.politik-digital.de/spam/en/
Votez contre le SPAM: http://www.politik-digital.de/spam/fr/
Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut
HRK
11:31 a.m.
New subject: Removing paint & magic marker graffiti from computer cases
If the surface is smooth, try automobile "Rubbing Compound"
12:49 p.m.
New subject: Removing paint & magic marker graffiti from computer cases
How about the white Polishing compound? The rubbing compound can be a
bit rough. Though maybe you'd need to use both together.
On Fri, 23 Apr 1999, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote:
If the surface is smooth, try automobile "Rubbing
Compound"
M. K. Peirce
Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc.
215 Shady Lea Road,
North Kingstown, RI 02852
"Casta est qui nemo rogavit."
- Ovid
11:48 a.m.
New subject: Removing paint & magic marker graffiti from computer cases
I use CitriSolv, a fairly common citrus-based solvent. It's not so nasty
to your skin or lungs, and treats most hard plastics and painted surfaces
gentle enough. It's the only thing that takes the Thrift Stores' sharpie
graffitti off of this stuff...
Hope that helps,
Aaron
9:03 p.m.
New subject: Removing paint & magic marker graffiti from computer cases
We (the list) went through this a year or two ago. Somewhere there is
a FAQ that talks alot about this.
You need to be careful with CitriSolv. If you use too strong a solution,
or don't rub it off, it will literally dissolve most plastics. Used
carefully, it does a great job.
Dave
Aaron Christopher Finney wrote:
I use CitriSolv, a fairly common citrus-based solvent. It's not so nasty
to your skin or lungs, and treats most hard plastics and painted surfaces
gentle enough. It's the only thing that takes the Thrift Stores' sharpie
graffitti off of this stuff...
Hope that helps,
Aaron
26 Apr
26 Apr
2:14 p.m.
New subject: Removing paint & magic marker graffiti from computer cases
I haven't been able to dig up a faq on this; can someone point me to it?
As far as CitriSolv, my usual method is to completely disassemble to the
point where I have a case that is completely washable with water. I spray
the CitriSolv full-strength on the case, wait about 30 seconds, wipe with
a *very soft* sponge, and rinse for 2-3 minutes under fast running water.
If there are any really stubborn stains, I'll just keep repeating short
full-strength applications with increasingly vigorous scrubbing (always
with a soft sponge) until I either remove the stains or all the skin on my
hands. Without knowing much about plastics or which manufacturers used
what (might be a good faq in itself!), I can say that I've successfully
used this on all of my Atari plastic cases, VAXStations, Macintoshes, WYSE
terminals, Sparcs and metal-case Suns, etc. without any noticable side
effects whatsoever. I think the key is to make sure you rinse everything
*extremely well*.
The only thing I ever had a bad experience with was one of those "soft"
pot-scrubber type pads. It was one of those plastic pieces with the
lightly-textured matte finish. Well, I got it really clean - and really
shiny exactly where I'd rubbed it. It's not bad from the right angle...but
when the light hits it just right, it's a real eyesore. So don't scrub too
hard...
Aaron
On Fri, 23 Apr 1999, David C. Jenner wrote:
We (the list) went through this a year or two ago.
Somewhere there is
a FAQ that talks alot about this.
You need to be careful with CitriSolv. If you use too strong a solution,
or don't rub it off, it will literally dissolve most plastics. Used
carefully, it does a great job.
23 Apr
23 Apr
12:40 p.m.
New subject: Removing paint & magic marker graffiti from computer cases
I've seen spary brake cleaner used to remove grafitti marks, but I don't
know if it would be compatible with the paint. It didn't seem to harm Imron.
On Fri, 23 Apr 1999, Hans Franke wrote:
M. K. Peirce
Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc.
215 Shady Lea Road,
North Kingstown, RI 02852
"Casta est qui nemo rogavit."
- Ovid
I've got a couple of Commodore PETs that need
to be cleaned up.
I'd like to restore them to like new condition...the only problem
is some markings on the systems.
Any ideas on how to remove from the metal case
(with damaging the
painted surface underneath)
- Spray paint (numbers)
- Permanent magic marker (more numbers)
Depending on the Modell - if it's one of the SK/LP/HP CBMs,
I recomend a ... ups, now I got problems since I don't know
exact american namings and brands - I would recomend ATA
(thats a brandname, but also used generic for most brands
of not aggressive Scheuerpulver (scpuring agent (?)) with
an aprobiate hard sponge (non metall), since the 'rough'
surface accepts microscratches, and the coulour used is
thick enough to allow this procedure - don't use any kind
of sandpaper.
For Metall case PET/CBMs with the rough surface the same
method might be usefull, but you have to prpare the Scheuer-
pulver with water in a seperate place, to avoide the first,
hard contact - also add some sadditional soup and use a soft
sponge with less pessure - you might need to polish it later
on with polish materials for cars.
For the smooth surface (early) models, I recomend only soap
and a sponge - and a real lot of rubbing. Also some helpers
as used for car paint refurbishing are usefull.
All this will only work to remove non aggressive markers.
If the markers have interacted deeply with the paint, and
or if spray paint is used, you have to do an repaint job.
take a medium to fine Schmirgelpapier and remove the unwanted
paint, until is is completly gone - try to take of material
all over at the same rate. if done well it might be enough
original paint still on the surface that you only need to
add a new gloss-paint layer - if not, considere to unpaint
whole case and give it to a car painting company for the
job to do it (including new paint of course.
The main problem is that you have to prepare all parts the
same way, since it would look terrible if only one side of
the pet is 'redone'
Gruss
H.
(There has been an Idea of a workshop on Computer cleaning
vor VCF 3.0 - Sallam ?)
--
Stimm gegen SPAM: http://www.politik-digital.de/spam/de/
Vote against SPAM: http://www.politik-digital.de/spam/en/
Votez contre le SPAM: http://www.politik-digital.de/spam/fr/
Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut
HRK
24 Apr
24 Apr
3:05 a.m.
New subject: Removing paint & magic marker graffiti from computer cases
On Fri, 23 Apr 1999, Hans Franke wrote:
(There has been an Idea of a workshop on Computer
cleaning
vor VCF 3.0 - Sallam ?)
Yes, this would make for a great workshop. Who wants to take it on?
Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Don't rub the lamp if you don't want the genie to come out.
Coming this October 2-3: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0!
See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
[Last web site update: 04/03/99]
23 Apr
23 Apr
1:19 p.m.
New subject: Removing paint & magic marker graffiti from computer cases
I've got a couple of Commodore PETs that need to be
cleaned up.
I'd like to restore them to like new condition...the only problem
is some markings on the systems.
Any ideas on how to remove from the metal case (with damaging the
painted surface underneath)
- Spray paint (numbers)
- Permanent magic marker (more numbers)
Thanks,
Chandra
Hmmm, the paint is a bit difficult, but for the "Permanent" magic marker
mess, I've found that Rubbing Alchol works wonders. It's the same stuff
used in alchol lamps. You can buy it in a large container, and it might
even work for the spray paint.
The problem with the spray paint will be removing it, but not the painted
surface underneath. Good luck on that. You might try some 'Kleen-Klean'
(I think that's the name), it used to be available at home building supply
stores in the US, but I've not looked for any for years so am not sure if
it still is.
The key word is that no matter what you try, try it on a small area,
preferably out of sight!
Zane
| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator |
| healyzh(a)aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast |
| healyzh(a)holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
| Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, |
| and Zane's Computer Museum. |
| http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ |
3:24 p.m.
New subject: Removing paint & magic marker graffiti from computer cases
>I've got a couple of Commodore PETs that need
to be cleaned up.
>I'd like to restore them to like new condition...the only problem
>is some markings on the systems.
>Any ideas on how to remove from the metal case
(with damaging the
>painted surface underneath)
> - Spray paint (numbers)
> - Permanent magic marker (more numbers)
Hmmm, the paint is a bit difficult, but for the
"Permanent" magic marker
mess, I've found that Rubbing Alchol works wonders. It's the same stuff
used in alchol lamps. You can buy it in a large container, and it might
even work for the spray paint.
Achtung, be suspicient to any alcohol bearing product when it comes
to Commo SK/LP/HP machines - there are paintings known that will be
damaged from alcohol. At one time thy used a _very_ stupid brand.
Gruss
H.
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Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut
HRK
4:23 p.m.
New subject: Removing paint & magic marker graffiti from computer cases
At 08:25 PM 4/23/99 +1, you wrote:
There's a lot of difference in alcohols. Rubbing alcohol is mainly
Isopropyl alcohol. Denatured alcohol is mainly ethyl alcohol. There are
MANY other kinds of alcohol and some will harm paint and some won't. Best
to test some on a out of the way spot first.
Joe
>I've
got a couple of Commodore PETs that need to be cleaned up.
>I'd like to restore them to like new condition...the only problem
>is some markings on the systems.
>Any ideas on how to remove from the metal
case (with damaging the
>painted surface underneath)
> - Spray paint (numbers)
> - Permanent magic marker (more numbers)
Hmmm, the paint is a bit difficult, but for the
"Permanent" magic marker
mess, I've found that Rubbing Alchol works wonders. It's the same stuff
used in alchol lamps. You can buy it in a large container, and it might
even work for the spray paint.
Achtung, be suspicient to any alcohol bearing product when it comes
to Commo SK/LP/HP machines - there are paintings known that will be
damaged from alcohol. At one time thy used a _very_ stupid brand.
24 Apr
24 Apr
3 a.m.
New subject: Removing paint & magic marker graffiti from computer cases
On Fri, 23 Apr 1999, Chandra Bajpai wrote:
Any ideas on how to remove from the metal case (with
damaging the
painted surface underneath)
- Spray paint (numbers)
- Permanent magic marker (more numbers)
Gasoline or rubbing alcohol on both counts.
Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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