15 May
1998
15 May
'98
9:24 p.m.
-----Original Message-----
From: Tony Duell <ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu Date: Saturday, 16
May 1998 11:10
Subject: Re: North Star Horizon
could
> Agreed with the previous gentlemen. My latest
blind rescue was that 68020
> Cadnetix system, where the company went under 10 years ago and every
> technical document on it seems to have ended up in a Colorado landfill. I
> finally tracked down one of the original engineers (from on-line resumes,
> of all things) to get some info on it. Granted, it's still dead (and from
> what I've learned, probably will stay that way forever) but I'll be
damned
Don't say that ! Somehow it can be got to work again. It'll take time,
but it would certainly be interesting.
these
if I didn't learn quite a lot from it. As for
wanting a specific machine,
I have spent my entire life lusting after machines that I have never even
seen in person, let alone had detailed hardware experience with! What is
Yes, but presumably you had reasons for wanting these machines, other
than 'I want an Altair, they're cool'
> it that really makes us want these machines, anyway? Not to say that machines are
useless, but nobody collects classic computers because of
their amazing processor speed or mammoth memories. It's a much more
Well, I particularly like machines with features that are not found on
more modern stuff - toggle-switch panels, demountable hard disks, vector
graphic displays, writeable microcode, etc.
> rounded aesthetic, having to do with colours, shapes, sounds, etc. I
I've said it before - I really couldn't care what a machine looks like. The
circuit diagrams are the interesting thing for me.
email: desieh(a)southcom.com.au
desieh(a)bigfoot.com
museum_curator(a)hotmail.com
Apple Lisa Web Page:
http://www.southcom.com.au/~desieh/index.htm
I have own a NorthStar Horizon very nice little computer abit heavy, mines
in the wooden box and has a pair of 5 1/4" floppy drives in the front and
yes it runs off an terminal.....
mine even has full docs and the origianl receipt of purchates from around
1976.....
many of the cards inside it arom from an Altair if my memory is correct...
A VDM -1? i think thats whats its called...anyway in the manual for this
video card it has the source code for the programmng code for a Altair and
IMSAl mechines....
only around 30,000 of these fine mechines where ever built so i would say
that they are very rare these days....
easily *see* a computer that *looks* interesting
and ask for one by name,
without even knowing where the power switch is. That's the whole fun of
it.
True... Especially at radio rallies where you see something odd and pay a
few pounds/dollars to take it home. No idea what it actually is - it's
just interesting...
Aaron
-tony 
16 May
16 May
5:48 a.m.
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12:07 p.m.
On Sat, 16 May 1998, Desie Hay wrote:
many of the cards inside it arom from an Altair if my
memory is correct...
A VDM -1? i think thats whats its called...anyway in the manual for this
VDM-1 is a Processor Technology board.
video card it has the source code for the programmng
code for a Altair and
IMSAl mechines....
only around 30,000 of these fine mechines where ever built so i would say
that they are very rare these days....
Let's not throw around the word "rare" so easily. 30,000 is a lot of
machines. Many people on this list have one or more Horizons (I have two
myself). They are uncommon for sure, but I wouldn't consider them "very
rare". Over time they will become "rare", but as of now they don't
yet
qualify.
Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.
September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2
See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
[Last web page update: 05/11/98]
12:45 p.m.
> only around 30,000 of these fine mechines where
ever built so i would say
> that they are very rare these days....
Gee, if only there were 30,000 IBM 709s made...
Rare? I do not think so. I tend to use the following condition to label
something as rare:
If there is a machine that I am actively looking for, and I have a pile of
money to spend, yet I forsee a search that will last _at_least_ a couple
of years, the machine is rare.
Examples (of significant machines, anyway):
Any pre-S/370 IBM big iron, Apple 1s (you knew that), any pre-KS DEC 36
bitters, Interdatas, Lisa 1s with Twiggies, Sun-1s, pre-AGS Ciscos, etc. *
Note that I do not consider IMSAIs and Altairs all that rare. Why? Because
I am sure I could get one in a manner of a few months, just I might have
to drop a four figure sum to do it.
My reasoning is based on some of my experiences with finding the old junk
- there is just an enormous amount of it out there, waiting to be found!
And yes, in the 1960s and 70s, when some of the really cool old stuff was
being taken out of commision, there were people just like us that dragged
the stuff home from work - that is how things like a PDP-1 gets found in a
barn in Kansas (I think Kansas, I will have to look that up).
* Yes, I know the list is not complete, and I invite anyone to add to it.
Wow, that might even qualify as being on-topic!
William Donzelli
william(a)ans.net
2:42 p.m.
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5:26 p.m.
PDP11/74,
Did DEC ever market these, or were they (all four of them, or
whatever) just a last ditch effort to save the PDP-11/70 line?
DEC PDP's _other than -8 and -11_
Certainly, although the PDP-12s might be close to being kicked off the
"very rare" list. I hesitate to add the KS-10s, as I think there are
probably more of them hidden away (or maybe actually doing work!) than we
think.
William Donzelli
william(a)ans.net
7:23 p.m.
New subject: North Star Horizon [Rare systems]
On Sun, 17 May 1998, Tony Duell wrote:
PERQ 3a, PERQ 2T4 (a lot rarer than the 3a, BTW), HH
Tiger ?, AMT DAP
(?), Tandy Deluxe CoCo, PDP11/74, HP95-C (OK, it's a calculator), Philips
P800-series, DEC PDP's _other than -8 and -11_
And that list is also incomplete.
Of course it is. I can name probably at least 10 things in my garage that
nobody on this list has even heard of.
But the Deluxe CoCo sounds cool. What was that?
Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.
September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2
See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
[Last web page update: 05/11/98]
8:17 p.m.
New subject: North Star Horizon [Rare systems]
On Sat, 16 May 1998, Doug Yowza wrote:
On Sat, 16 May 1998, Sam Ismail wrote:
Ugh. You bastard.
Ok, well there's the Codata 3300 (unix box with full height 5.25" drive
built into the case), Zendex Model 835 (well, since I announced that on
the list everyone knows about it now, but before that it was unknown to
all but maybe Kip), California Technology International Model 1032-A (Z-80
based circa 1979)...
Oh geez, that's all I can remember from the top of my head. I really have
to go walk through the garage to refresh my memory. All I know is that in
the last year, with all the stuff I've acquired, I remember on numerous
occasions finding something and thinking "now THAT's a rarity". One day
I'll have to finish that database. Oh yeah, just remembered the Compal-80
(mid 70s S-100 box, very small, I'm sure some of the old hackers like
Allison have heard of it though).
Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.
September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2
See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
[Last web page update: 05/11/98]
Of course it is. I can name probably at least 10
things in my garage that
nobody on this list has even heard of.
OK, I'll bite. Name 'em! 
9:01 p.m.
New subject: North Star Horizon [Rare systems]
On Sat, 16 May 1998, Sam Ismail wrote:
On Sat, 16 May 1998, Doug Yowza wrote:
Sure! COMputer Power And Light.
- don
On Sat, 16 May 1998, Sam Ismail wrote:
Ugh. You bastard.
Ok, well there's the Codata 3300 (unix box with full height 5.25" drive
built into the case), Zendex Model 835 (well, since I announced that on
the list everyone knows about it now, but before that it was unknown to
all but maybe Kip), California Technology International Model 1032-A (Z-80
based circa 1979)...
Oh geez, that's all I can remember from the top of my head. I really have
to go walk through the garage to refresh my memory. All I know is that in
the last year, with all the stuff I've acquired, I remember on numerous
occasions finding something and thinking "now THAT's a rarity". One day
I'll have to finish that database. Oh yeah, just remembered the Compal-80
(mid 70s S-100 box, very small, I'm sure some of the old hackers like
Allison have heard of it though). Of course it is. I can name probably at least 10
things in my garage that
nobody on this list has even heard of.
OK, I'll bite. Name 'em! Sam Alternate
e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.
September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2
See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
[Last web page update: 05/11/98]
9:36 p.m.
New subject: North Star Horizon [Rare systems]
On Sat, 16 May 1998, Don Maslin wrote:
That's exactly right. An obscure (by today's standards for sure, but
don't know about back then...the references in the trade literature of the
era are scarce) company that made S-100 boxes in the '75-'77(?) timeframe.
The one I have is very small, measuring about 12" wide x 5" high by 18"
deep. It has a small, 4-slot backplane and a power supply, with not much
room left over internally for much else.
Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.
September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2
See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
[Last web page update: 05/11/98]
I'll have
to finish that database. Oh yeah, just remembered the Compal-80
(mid 70s S-100 box, very small, I'm sure some of the old hackers like
Allison have heard of it though).
Sure! COMputer Power And Light. 
17 May
17 May
5:26 a.m.
New subject: North Star Horizon [Rare systems]
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8:13 a.m.
New subject: North Star Horizon [Rare systems]
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20 May
20 May
3:33 a.m.
New subject: North Star Horizon [Rare systems]
On Sat, 16 May 1998, Sam Ismail wrote:
Ok, well there's the Codata 3300 (unix box with
full height 5.25" drive
built into the case),
This would be a 68000-based machine, yes? Runs a UNIX variant called
"UNISIS" which supports 10 simultaneous users? Sleek black box? The disk
drive is quad density?
No I've never met one in real life, but there was a photograph and some
details of it in a book I read.
Doug Spence
ds_spenc(a)alcor.concordia.ca
http://alcor.concordia.ca/~ds_spenc/
17 May
17 May
6:19 a.m.
New subject: [Rare systems]
At 21:23 5/16/98 -0700, you wrote:
Of course it is. I can name probably at least 10
things in my garage that
nobody on this list has even heard of.
Well, our SDS 930 is quintessentially rare, since it's the only one left
AFAIK. But if we're talking strictly micros, I think we have the only UNIX
Lisa.
__________________________________________
Kip Crosby engine(a)chac.org
http://www.chac.org/index.html
Computer History Association of California
9:14 a.m.
New subject: [Rare systems]
On Sun, 17 May 1998, Kip Crosby wrote:
Well, our SDS 930 is quintessentially rare, since
it's the only one left
AFAIK. But if we're talking strictly micros, I think we have the only UNIX
Lisa.
Who ported UNIX to the Lisa? It wasn't Apple, was it? BTW, anybody know
which was the first UNIX port to a non-DEC machine? I seem to recall both
UNIX and C were spawned around 1968 or so, but the first UNIX micro
implementations I remember were probably SCO/Microsoft Xenix on the 8086,
and various 68K ports (including BSD on the Sun).
-- Doug
3:01 p.m.
New subject: [Rare systems]
BTW, anybody know
which was the first UNIX port to a non-DEC machine?
Interdata 8/32, probably.
William Donzelli
william(a)ans.net
10:14 a.m.
New subject: [Rare systems]
On Sun, 17 May 1998, Doug Yowza wrote:
Who ported UNIX to the Lisa? It wasn't Apple, was
it? BTW, anybody know
which was the first UNIX port to a non-DEC machine? I seem to recall both
UNIX and C were spawned around 1968 or so, but the first UNIX micro
implementations I remember were probably SCO/Microsoft Xenix on the 8086,
and various 68K ports (including BSD on the Sun).
Bzzt. Unix was created in 1974 at Bell Labs on a PDP-7.
Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.
September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2
See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
[Last web page update: 05/11/98]
10:44 a.m.
New subject: [Rare systems]
On Sun, 17 May 1998, Sam Ismail wrote:
Bzzt. Unix was created in 1974 at Bell Labs on a
PDP-7.
Proof by assertion *and* buzzer is my favorite kind of proof. At least
the guy that wrote the UNIX FAQ disagrees with you, but I'm sure your
buzzer is bigger than his :-)
http://www.ee.byu.edu/unix-faq/subsection3_8_2.html
-- Doug
18 May
18 May
10:19 a.m.
New subject: [Rare systems]
On Sun, 17 May 1998, Doug Yowza wrote:
On Sun, 17 May 1998, Sam Ismail wrote:
You might also want to check out this link:
http://cm.bell-labs.com/cm/cs/who/dmr/hist.html
(The URL seems pretty authoritative to me. BTW, it's only two clicks off
of Doug's classiccmp page.)
Bzzt. Unix was created in 1974 at Bell Labs on a
PDP-7.
Proof by assertion *and* buzzer is my favorite kind of proof. At least
the guy that wrote the UNIX FAQ disagrees with you, but I'm sure your
buzzer is bigger than his :-)
http://www.ee.byu.edu/unix-faq/subsection3_8_2.html -- Doug
ttyl
srw
17 May
17 May
10:48 a.m.
New subject: [Rare systems]
Bzzt your bzzt. Check your facts before buzzing in.
Here's a quick unix timeline:
1969 Ken Thompson & Dennis Ritchie develop UNIX
1971 B-language version
1973 First C-language version
1976 First licensed release
1977 First AT&T internally supported release
1978 First portable version
1979 First DEC VAX version
1979 Bill Joy introduces "Berkeley Enhancements"
1982 AT&T first markets UNIX
1983 AT&T markets System V as industry standard
Thanks for playing, as a lovely parting gift we have a helping of humble pie. ;)
Dan
Sam Ismail wrote:
On Sun, 17 May 1998, Doug Yowza wrote:
Who ported UNIX to the Lisa? It wasn't
Apple, was it? BTW, anybody know
which was the first UNIX port to a non-DEC machine? I seem to recall both
UNIX and C were spawned around 1968 or so, but the first UNIX micro
implementations I remember were probably SCO/Microsoft Xenix on the 8086,
and various 68K ports (including BSD on the Sun).
Bzzt. Unix was created in 1974 at Bell Labs on a PDP-7.
Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.
September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2
See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
[Last web page update: 05/11/98]
10:53 a.m.
New subject: [Rare systems]
Here's a quick unix timeline:
Does anyone know of the oldest surviving version of Unix that is still
running? Sure, there may be tapes for the PDP-7 version floating aroung
somewhere, but I do not think there are any working PDP-7s around!
William Donzelli
william(a)ans.net
2 p.m.
New subject: [Rare systems]
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11:32 a.m.
New subject: [Rare systems]
On Sun, 17 May 1998, The Adept wrote:
Bzzt your bzzt. Check your facts before buzzing in.
Here's a quick unix timeline:
1969 Ken Thompson & Dennis Ritchie develop UNIX
1971 B-language version
1973 First C-language version
1976 First licensed release
1977 First AT&T internally supported release
1978 First portable version
1979 First DEC VAX version
1979 Bill Joy introduces "Berkeley Enhancements"
1982 AT&T first markets UNIX
1983 AT&T markets System V as industry standard
Damn. I thought I buzzed in too soon. I'm gonna go find the book I read
that info in and have me a book burnin', yee-ha!
Thanks for playing, as a lovely parting gift we have a
helping of humble
pie. ;)
Yum!
Apologies to Mr .Yowza.
Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.
September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2
See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
[Last web page update: 05/11/98]
8:04 a.m.
New subject: North Star Horizon [Rare systems]
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9561
days inactive
9565
days old
25 comments
12 participants
participants (12)
-
adept＠mcs.com -
ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk -
dastar＠wco.com -
desieh＠southcom.com.au -
donm＠cts.com -
ds_spenc＠alcor.concordia.ca -
engine＠chac.org -
pechter＠shell.monmouth.com -
scott＠saskatoon.com -
shoppa＠alph02.triumf.ca -
william＠ans.net -
yowza＠yowza.com