29 Jun
1997
29 Jun
'97
2:53 a.m.
I've seen a couple of posts in here that declare, in very firm terms
indeed, that machines like the MicroVAX and PDP's are not "home" computers.
For the sake of discussion in this list, and computer hobbyists in
general, I would like the world to know that I define 'home computer' as
any machine that you can:
* Comfortably fit through your door...
* Doesn't test the load limits of your target floor...
* Power and run without tripping your main breaker...
* (most importantly) Have fun restoring and working with... in your home!
Which just goes to show that such terminology is so relative, there's
little point in debating it. Why waste the bandwidth over something as
trivial as a difference in wording?
(No, I'm not trying to start a flamewar; I posted this because I'm
concerned that the current thread regarding 'home' computers may erupt into
one!)
Caveat Emperor!
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272)
(Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin(a)wizards.net)
http://www.wizards.net/technoid
"Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own
human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..."
29 Jun
29 Jun
4:32 a.m.
On Sun, 29 Jun 1997, Bruce Lane wrote:
I've seen a couple of posts in here that
declare, in very firm terms
indeed, that machines like the MicroVAX and PDP's are not "home" computers.
My PDP is a home computer. All it takes up is a table (I don't have a
rack yet. It's coming...) Besides, my XT is bigger than the PDP at the
moment (condidering keyboard, monitor, printer, and disks)
Anything I can fit inside is a home computer! If it's in a home, and
it's a computer, it's a home computer, right?
6:16 a.m.
Daniel A. Seagraves wrote:
On Sun, 29 Jun 1997, Bruce Lane wrote:
Of course you could go to work on a Ferrari BUT would you? (and is a
Ferrari a "goto work car"?)
enrico
--
================================================================
Enrico Tedeschi, 54, Easthill Drive, BRIGHTON BN41 2FD, U.K.
tel/fax +(0)1273 701650 (24 hours) or 0850 104725 mobile
website <http://www.ndirect.co.uk/~e.tedeschi>
================================================================
visit Brighton: <http://www.brighton.co.uk/tourist/welcome.htm>
I've seen a couple of posts in here
that declare, in very firm terms
indeed, that machines like the MicroVAX and PDP's are not "home" computers.
My PDP is a home computer. All it takes up is a table (I don't have a
rack yet. It's coming...) Besides, my XT is bigger than the PDP at the
moment (condidering keyboard, monitor, printer, and disks)
Anything I can fit inside is a home computer! If it's in a home, and
it's a computer, it's a home computer, right? 
5:44 a.m.
On Sun, 29 Jun 1997, e.tedeschi wrote:
Daniel A. Seagraves wrote:
>
> On Sun, 29 Jun 1997, Bruce Lane wrote:
> > I've seen a couple of posts in here that declare, in very firm terms
> > indeed, that machines like the MicroVAX and PDP's are not "home"
> > computers.
> >
> > * Comfortably fit through your door...
> > * Doesn't test the load limits of your target floor...
> > * Power and run without tripping your main breaker...
> > * (most importantly) Have fun restoring and working with... in your
> > home
>
> My PDP is a home computer. All it takes up is a table (I don't have a
> rack yet. It's coming...) Besides, my XT is bigger than the PDP at the
> moment (condidering keyboard, monitor, printer, and disks)
>
> Anything I can fit inside is a home computer! If it's in a home, and
> it's a computer, it's a home computer, right?
I agree! I have even thought of putting in a bigger door 8-)
Of course you could go to work on a Ferrari BUT would
you? (and is a
Ferrari a "goto work car"?)
Why - yes I would. I tend to do things like that tho. Not everyone would.
But if I spend > $1 on a car - I use it. What is a car for? What is a
computer for? Do you think Ferrari builds cars to sit? Why do they put
an engine in one then? Now art - like a painting - thats made to hang on
a wall and get looked at. I do have a picture of a Ferrari - got that for
free. Why would I would I speend > $100K for something to look at.
BC
6:34 a.m.
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8:15 a.m.
It was thus said that the Great e.tedeschi once stated:
Daniel A. Seagraves wrote:
Heck, if I had a Ferrari, I might not even GO to work. I'd be having too
much fun driving the thing. What's the point of a Ferrari if you only get
to drive it for an hour or so a day? Why have it if it's not going to be
used?
Which relates to how I collect computers - I only collect computers that I
can actually put to good use. I feel bad if a computer is just sitting
there collecting dust.
-spc (Woo hoo! I'm drivin g a Ferrari, and I even rate my own police
escourt! 8-)
Anything I can fit inside is a home computer! If it's in a home, and
it's a computer, it's a home computer, right?
Of course you could go to work on a Ferrari BUT would you? (and is a
Ferrari a "goto work car"?)
9:59 a.m.
Captain Napalm wrote:
It was thus said that the Great e.tedeschi once stated:
You might HAVE to go to work to mantain the beast....
What's the point of a Ferrari if you only get
Daniel A. Seagraves wrote:
Heck, if I had a Ferrari, I might not even GO to work. I'd be having too
much fun driving the thing.
Anything I can fit inside is a home computer! If it's in a home, and
it's a computer, it's a home computer, right?
Of course you could go to work on a Ferrari BUT would you? (and is a
Ferrari a "goto work car"?) to drive it for an hour or so a day? Why have it if
it's not going to be
used?
For the historical importance or for collection...
Which relates to how I collect computers - I only collect computers that I
can actually put to good use. I feel bad if a computer is just sitting
there collecting dust.
There are computers that you could not possibly USE but they are
important for what they meant (and mean today) in short for their
"heritage". Without them you could not have used (and use) the ones you
are using today.
enrico
-spc (Woo hoo! I'm drivin g a Ferrari, and I even rate my own police
escourt! 8-)
10:29 a.m.
On Sun, 29 Jun 1997, e.tedeschi wrote:
For the historical importance or for collection...
I understand this. But wouldn't a picture and the operators/maintenance
manuals be enought then? Maybe some film or video?
BOING! How about a film library of old computer stuff? You know - file
footage that all the old SF movies used to use.
There are computers that you could not possibly USE
but they are
important for what they meant (and mean today) in short for their
"heritage". Without them you could not have used (and use) the ones you
are using today.
Name some. I mean the ones I *could not possibly USE* - I would like a
list of things to look for 8-)
I remember someone saying in one post about MCMXXX and the response being
*must have meant MCMLXXX* - why? Triode tubes (valves - I love that word)
were around - Why couldn't you build a computer using tubes from the 30's.
I mean - it would keep the house warm (probably too warm 8-) and it would
be some what limited in storage - but heck weren't some of the first
tubers (like that word too) big word machines. Wierd things like 12 and 23
and 31 bit come to mind. Wasn't there a huge 64 bit TTL one as well? This
was back in the late 50's. Government funded stuff. Or am I just blowing
wind?
BC
10:57 a.m.
On Sun, 29 Jun 1997, Brett wrote:
I remember someone saying in one post about MCMXXX and
the response being
*must have meant MCMLXXX* - why? Triode tubes (valves - I love that word)
were around - Why couldn't you build a computer using tubes from the 30's.
I mean - it would keep the house warm (probably too warm 8-) and it would
be some what limited in storage - but heck weren't some of the first
tubers (like that word too) big word machines. Wierd things like 12 and 23
and 31 bit come to mind. Wasn't there a huge 64 bit TTL one as well? This
was back in the late 50's. Government funded stuff. Or am I just blowing
wind?
That was me. Yes, it might have been _possible_ to build a machine in
1930, but at that time nobody had made the connection between Babbage's
ideas and electronics. IIRC, it was John von Neuman who took that fatal
step, then published it. And then all Hell broke loose, and there is no
sign of the rift closing within our lifetimes. I _love_ it. With
respect to the old Chinese curse, we live in interesting times. And we
have done so since the Harvard Mark I. (Well, there _is_ that rumoured
German predecessor, but it was never advertised.)
--
Ward Griffiths
"America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within
the system, but too early to shoot the bastards." --Claire Wolfe
11:10 a.m.
On Sun, 29 Jun 1997, Ward Griffiths and/or Lisa Rogers wrote:
On Sun, 29 Jun 1997, Brett wrote:
Which reminds me, my oldest handheld is from Korea. It feels great on my
feet! My uncle picked it up for me in the mid-60's tho the design has been
around in Asia for centuries.
BC
I remember someone saying in one post about
MCMXXX and the response being
*must have meant MCMLXXX* - why? Triode tubes (valves - I love that word)
were around - Why couldn't you build a computer using tubes from the 30's.
That was me. Yes, it might have been _possible_ to build a machine in
1930, but at that time nobody had made the connection between Babbage's
ideas and electronics. IIRC, it was John von Neuman who took that fatal
step, then published it. And then all Hell broke loose, and there is no
sign of the rift closing within our lifetimes. I _love_ it. With
respect to the old Chinese curse, we live in interesting times. And we
have done so since the Harvard Mark I. (Well, there _is_ that rumoured
German predecessor, but it was never advertised.)
3:30 p.m.
On Sun, 29 Jun 1997, Brett wrote:
Which reminds me, my oldest handheld is from Korea. It
feels great on my
feet! My uncle picked it up for me in the mid-60's tho the design has been
around in Asia for centuries.
Yeah, got three assorted items of that nature myself (abacuses?
abaci? Never met anybody with more than one to tell me the proper
plural!)
--
Ward Griffiths
"America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within
the system, but too early to shoot the bastards." --Claire Wolfe
3:50 p.m.
I remember someone saying in one post about MCMXXX and
the response being
*must have meant MCMLXXX* - why? Triode tubes (valves - I love that word)
were around - Why couldn't you build a computer using tubes from the 30's.
Simply put, most (nearly 99.9%) toobs really do not like to work in a
digital fashion. They get "sleeping sickness" - when cut-off for a period
of time, electrons bunch up around the cathode (they are always emitted,
but can not get past the grid). This electron cloud, unfortuneately,
takes time to break apart after the grid bias turns the device on -
resulting in a horrible response time for any gate.
I suppose one could make ECL with vacuum techonology - keeping the digital
states between cut-off and saturation, but the price of extra parts
would be very large.
Only in the 1950s did manufacturers start to make toobs that behaved in
digital circuits.
William Donzelli
william(a)ans.net
30 Jun
30 Jun
12:54 a.m.
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29 Jun
29 Jun
7:04 p.m.
Brett wrote:
On Sun, 29 Jun 1997, e.tedeschi wrote:
> There are computers that you could not possibly USE but they are
> important for what they meant (and mean today) in short for their
> "heritage". Without them you could not have used (and use) the ones you
> are using today.
How about the Science of Cambridge (Sinclair) MK XIV ? It had 256 bytes
(NOT Kb, BYTES) of RAM memory, LED display, not modulator and no way of
storing programs (you could add these at a later stage as accessories).
enrico
30 Jun
30 Jun
3:55 a.m.
On Mon, 30 Jun 1997 07:04:07 +0000, you wrote:
%
%How about the Science of Cambridge (Sinclair) MK XIV ? It had 256
bytes
%(NOT Kb, BYTES) of RAM memory, LED display, not modulator and no way
of
%storing programs (you could add these at a later stage as
accessories).
The Science of Cambridge Mk14 was sold and marketed as Mk14 and not MK
XIV (AFAIK, still have an ad of it in Electronics Today
International).
Was SoC really Sinclair? I thought Sinclair and SoC were two different
companies.
Ben
29 Jun
29 Jun
5:50 a.m.
On Sun, 29 Jun 1997, Bruce Lane wrote:
For the sake of discussion in this list, and
computer hobbyists in
general, I would like the world to know that I define 'home computer' as
any machine that you can:
* Comfortably fit through your door...
* Doesn't test the load limits of your target floor...
* Power and run without tripping your main breaker...
* (most importantly) Have fun restoring and working with... in your home!
I love this definition! I think it should go in the FAQ.
Sam
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass
9:54 a.m.
On Sun, 29 Jun 1997, Bruce Lane wrote:
For the sake of discussion in this list, and
computer hobbyists in
general, I would like the world to know that I define 'home computer' as
any machine that you can:
* Comfortably fit through your door...
Fine there. But in this old Victorian, the tight stairs to the attic and
the basement can be a _bitch_, especially when moving from on to tother.
* Doesn't test the load limits of your
target floor...
Well, that's why the bigger boxes are in the basement.
* Power and run without tripping your main
breaker...
Does bribing the town electrical inspector count? (This _is_ New Jersey).
* (most importantly) Have fun restoring and
working with... in your home!
The key factor.
--
Ward Griffiths
"America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within
the system, but too early to shoot the bastards." --Claire Wolfe
10350
days inactive
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days old
16 comments
10 participants
participants (10)
-
bluesky6＠ix.netcom.com -
danjo＠xnet.com -
dastar＠crl.com -
dseagrav＠bsdserver.tek-star.net -
e.tedeschi＠ndirect.co.uk -
gram＠cnct.com -
kyrrin＠wizards.net -
shoppa＠alph02.triumf.ca -
spc＠armigeron.com -
william＠ans.net