5 Feb
2002
5 Feb
'02
3:54 a.m.
Ok, now's your chance to discuss your specialty and get the attention of
other folks who have stuff that you may want.
I disqualify myself from this discussion because technically a "Specialty
of Everything" is not really specialization.
I want everything and anything ;)
Actually, I do like to specialize where few fear to venture. I have
massive amounts of computer books, magazines, documentation and manuals.
I do not discriminate. If it's a book and it has just about anything at
all to do with computing, it goes into my library. Again, there is a
purpose to this seemingly unquenchable psychosis.
My collection of Y2K preparedness books is probably unrivaled (at this
point probably 30+ volumes and counting).
Somebody's got to do it.
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org
* Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com *
5 Feb
5 Feb
1:08 p.m.
Mainframes (IBM and other), big-iron VAXen, general big-iron,
miscellaneous big-iron, IBM RS/6000's, and DEC PMAX systems.
Peace... Sridhar
On Tue, 5 Feb 2002, Sellam Ismail wrote:
Ok, now's your chance to discuss your specialty
and get the attention of
other folks who have stuff that you may want.
I disqualify myself from this discussion because technically a "Specialty
of Everything" is not really specialization.
I want everything and anything ;)
Actually, I do like to specialize where few fear to venture. I have
massive amounts of computer books, magazines, documentation and manuals.
I do not discriminate. If it's a book and it has just about anything at
all to do with computing, it goes into my library. Again, there is a
purpose to this seemingly unquenchable psychosis.
My collection of Y2K preparedness books is probably unrivaled (at this
point probably 30+ volumes and counting).
Somebody's got to do it.
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org
* Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com *
1:08 p.m.
I specialize in Atari coinop/consoles/computers. I also specialize in
Mindset Computers as well as Corvus hardware.
Curt
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sellam Ismail" <foo(a)siconic.com
To: "Classic Computers Mailing List" <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2002 9:54 AM
Subject: What's your specialty?
Ok, now's your chance to discuss your specialty and get the attention of
other folks who have stuff that you may want.
I disqualify myself from this discussion because technically a "Specialty
of Everything" is not really specialization.
I want everything and anything ;)
Actually, I do like to specialize where few fear to venture. I have
massive amounts of computer books, magazines, documentation and manuals.
I do not discriminate. If it's a book and it has just about anything at
all to do with computing, it goes into my library. Again, there is a
purpose to this seemingly unquenchable psychosis.
My collection of Y2K preparedness books is probably unrivaled (at this
point probably 30+ volumes and counting).
Somebody's got to do it.
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer
Festival
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
International Man of Intrigue and Danger
http://www.vintage.org
* Old computing resources for business and academia at
www.VintageTech.com *
1:19 p.m.
Ok, now's your chance to discuss your specialty
and get the attention of
other folks who have stuff that you may want.
Ohio Scientific anything. I have hardware, software, documentation,
marketing literature... want more. Looking very hard for later model
plastic cased machine.
S-100, an altair 8800b (not bt) will just about complete my collection.
Does anyone else have a "turnkey" (non-front panel) imsai?
I have a SOL, several OSI C4Ps and a couple of Northstar Horizons...
Any other pre-1981 non-homebrew machine with significant amounts of
wood in the case would be interesting.
5:33 a.m.
On Tue, 5 Feb 2002, Bill Sudbrink wrote:
S-100, an altair 8800b (not bt) will just about
complete my collection.
Does anyone else have a "turnkey" (non-front panel) imsai?
I have two.
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org
* Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com *
6 Feb
6 Feb
4:45 a.m.
Sellam Ismail
On Tue, 5 Feb 2002, Bill Sudbrink wrote:
You don't count ... unless you give me one of them.
Gruss
H.
--
VCF Europa 3.0 am 27./28. April 2002 in Muenchen
http://www.vcfe.org/
S-100, an altair 8800b (not bt) will just about
complete my collection.
Does anyone else have a "turnkey" (non-front panel) imsai?
I have two.
5 Feb
5 Feb
1:59 p.m.
...Everything about Data General Nova, Eclipse and MV systems, including
look-alikes [Point 4, Keronix, DCC (Digital Computer Controls), Strobe Data,
Rolm, Bytronix, Ampex, SCI, INI (Information Now, Inc.)]
Bruce Ray
Wild Hare Computer Systems, Inc.
bkr(a)WildHareComputers.com
www.NovasAreForever.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Sudbrink" <wh.sudbrink(a)verizon.net>
To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2002 5:19 PM
Subject: RE: What's your specialty?
Ok, now's
your chance to discuss your specialty and get the attention of
other folks who have stuff that you may want.
Ohio Scientific anything. I have hardware, software, documentation,
marketing literature... want more. Looking very hard for later model
plastic cased machine.
S-100, an altair 8800b (not bt) will just about complete my collection.
Does anyone else have a "turnkey" (non-front panel) imsai?
I have a SOL, several OSI C4Ps and a couple of Northstar Horizons...
Any other pre-1981 non-homebrew machine with significant amounts of
wood in the case would be interesting.
3:51 p.m.
16-bit DG stuff (as well as clones, like DCC and ROLM stuff);
Pr1me gear. While I don't precisely collect the stuff
I also have a bunch of Sun gear: several IPX and IPCs,
A SS5, a SS10, a SS20 w/dual SM71s and max memory, another
SS20 w/dual 150MHz hypersparcs and max memory, along with
an HME card.
--
Chris Kennedy
chris(a)mainecoon.com
http://www.mainecoon.com
PGP fingerprint: 4E99 10B6 7253 B048 6685 6CBC 55E1 20A3 108D AB97
5:30 p.m.
While I have a lot of different stuff, I consider myself primarily a
collector of S-100 systems and other early systems before about 1981.
Early systems include the Altair, Imsai, Vector 1 - 4, Heath, Northstar
Horizon and Advantage, and custom boxes built for industrial use. And
more for completeness than any other good reason, I have the Apple II+,
IIC, IIc+, IIe, IIe Enhanced, most of the early Macs, most of the early
Commodore pet series, and most of the early TRS computers. And perhaps
just as important, I collect documentation. Docs I've collected range
from books and manuals, to advertising flyers. My
favorite would be
technical documentation. Probably the rarest thing I have is a
Business
Plan for Polymorphic Systems that was created when Polymorphic changed
hands in about 1979 (can't remember the exact year.) I don't collect the
big iron although I have quite a few progamming and system docs for both
IBM and Burroughs. The only Dec stuff I have are the PDP-8l, 11/05,
11/04?, LA36s, some of the old M Series logic boards, and a number of
the disk cartridges. Then there are the arcade games, radio stuff, old
oscilloscopes, printers, monitors, calculators, and other such stuff. To
the best of my knowledge, most of the systems work, or at least worked
when I acquired them.
4:07 p.m.
...Everything about Data General Nova, Eclipse and MV
systems, including
look-alikes [Point 4, Keronix, DCC (Digital Computer Controls), Strobe Data,
Rolm, Bytronix, Ampex, SCI, INI (Information Now, Inc.)]
Watch for a box any day now. Your nice 1602B is Westward bound. FedEx
Ground proved to be very reasonable.
I will try to get the next box (probably the ratty 1602B) out as soon as
I find another big carton.
William Donzelli
aw288(a)osfn.org
6:20 p.m.
New subject: Rolm arrived
G'day William -
Yup - got the heavy sucker today. Have not opened it up, but I don't think
there was any internal damage. ;-)
I also received a BA-23-enclosed PDP-11/53 which was about as heavy. Hmmmm.
Maybe tomorrow I'll try driving the car over it to test the Mil-spec'idness.
Thanks.
What's going on on your side of the country?
Bruce
----- Original Message -----
From: "William Donzelli" <aw288(a)osfn.org>
To: <bkr(a)WildHareComputers.com>
Cc: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2002 8:07 PM
Subject: Re: What's your specialty?
> ...Everything about Data General Nova, Eclipse
and MV systems, including
> look-alikes [Point 4, Keronix, DCC (Digital Computer Controls), Strobe
Data,
Rolm,
Bytronix, Ampex, SCI, INI (Information Now, Inc.)]
Watch for a box any day now. Your nice 1602B is Westward bound. FedEx
Ground proved to be very reasonable.
I will try to get the next box (probably the ratty 1602B) out as soon as
I find another big carton.
William Donzelli
aw288(a)osfn.org
7:13 p.m.
New subject: Rolm arrived <oops, sorry>
Darn senior moments <please ignore my cluelessness> <what, is it supper time
already> <who let the dog out?>
6 Feb
6 Feb
2:32 a.m.
I originally collected Xerox 820's and had most versions, but I donated
everything, and working on the museum project, I'm interested in nearly
everything, but I have a fondness for big stuff.
3:09 p.m.
I think I'm trying to collect all of those computers I wanted to buy new
when I was younger but didn't have the money.
On the list of things to buy:
IMSAI 8080
BeBox
PDP-8 (I think I want an original but might take an -8S)
PDP-11 (A QBUS version with enough disk to run 2.11BSD)
HP Unix Lunch Box (sorry, can't think of the number right now)
Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies(a)kerberos.davies.net.au
| "If God had wanted soccer played in the
| air, the sky would be painted green"
8 Feb
8 Feb
4:21 p.m.
With regards to collecting, if I find it interesting, I collect it.
That applies to computers, electronic equipment, or anything else.
Hence, I don't bother trying to have a "complete" collection. With
regards to computers, I just collect equipment that I like and would
enjoy playing with - if that should somehow result in a complete
collection of something, so be it, but it won't be on purpose. :-)
At this time, I'm not looking for any complete systems except perhaps
a small DG MV-x,000 (e.g. a little tiny suitcase sized MV-2000 system)
system running AOS/VS, which was the first minicomputer system I was
ever paid to work with. Alas, I don't have room for an Eclipse
MV-10,000 like I once worked with, or a cabinet for tape and disk
drives, and a printing Dasher console.
That said... I really would like a VAX 11/780 system, a complete IBM
3090 system, an HP-3000 series III and a PDP-11/45 along with many
other systems. However, I've no space for them. :-( A large abandoned
shopping mall in a rural area would be an ideal house to keep them in,
which could be divided into areas called DEC County, IBM City, HPtown,
PERQsburg, Sunville, etc. This would also be a perfect place to
install a few pairs of old Altec Lansing Voice of the Theatre speaker
systems and some custom cabinets with Electro Voice 30W speakers (30"
diameter woofers) in them, and there would still be space left over
for a sizeable library, space to store cars and car parts, space for a
greenhouse, electronics lab, swimming pool, indoor pond, barn with
stables and an indoor arena, plenty of fruit trees, and all under one
roof.
More realistically, I'm mostly looking for spare and needed parts at
this time. At the top of my list are parts like Shugart SA-4008 or
SA-4004 hard drives for my PERQ-1A computers, assorted Q-bus, Omnibus
and Unibus boards for VAXen, PDP-11s and a PDP-8/e, as well as
possibly any boards, drives, etc. for my HP-1000/E.
Like others on this list, I'm trying to figure out what spare bits to
get rid of:
Many Sun-3 VME-bus boards are available for US$20/each (someone else
set the price, not me; I'm just keeping them until (if?) they can be
sold, and am not profiting from their sale) - you name the board, I
might have it, and I'll even consider letting you have any attached
spiders and webbing for free! That's right, absolutely free. :-)
Condition: you must agree to take care of, and not scrap, these boards
if you buy them; that's what I promised the seller who wants them to
go to good homes. I really would like to have the space that these
100-plus boards are taking up.
Other things to trade for the right trade:
- three IBM mini monitors and banking system controller device
- an NEC minicomputer and some sort of huge disk controller box
- assorted terminal servers that appear not to not work, or need
software
- possibly an Apollo DN3500 and 19" monitor (if I can bring myself to
part with these, but I could use the space)
- a 25" CRT from an old Zenith color TV. I found it on a chassis that
someone threw away, which I stripped the rest of the parts off of
about 20 years ago - never know when one of these might be useful,
right? :-)
- possibly a spare Kaypro-IV
- possibly a spare PDP-11/03 chasis
- a MicroVAX-I CPU board set
- DEC Voice board set with DECvoice to T1 board and bulkhead connector
(this may be going to someone else soon)
- assorted chassis parts (e.g. plastic sides, etc.) for old Sun
Sparc/Sun-3 systems.
- Possibly some other things such as a third-party manufactured
expansion chasis for Q-bus boards... holds many boards!
- spare PERQ T2 chasis with no boards in it; this, however, I'm not at
all likely to part with, even though it's taking up a fair amount of
space in it's custom Anvil-like travel case on wheels.
- Also for trade: a Kenwood KR-7070 receiver in need of repair... not
sure what's wrong with it yet - bought it at a ham fest but never got
'round to checking out out; numbers on face of tuner dial are not in
good shape; the plastic appears to be flaking off.
--
Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals:
All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature &
rdd(a)rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such
http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty.
5 Feb
5 Feb
1:33 p.m.
Ok, now's your chance to discuss your specialty
and get the attention of
other folks who have stuff that you may want.
I collect VAX, PDP-11, and Alpha. I also collect TRS-80. I
would like to add an OSI C1P and an AIM-65, as those two are
systems I always wanted when I was younger.
--
Eric Dittman
dittman(a)dittman.net
Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/
4:14 p.m.
I love the HP 1000 mini's, specifically the original 'family of three', the
2116, 2115, and 2114.
I'm no fan of the 2100 though, and don't care much for the M-series.
But the E-series and F-series machines are very nice indeed!
In addition to HP mini's, I've also got a soft spot for vector graphics, like
the Imlac PDS-1.
Combining these, I'm also a huge fan of the HP 1350 / 1351 vector graphics
hardware, and the HP 12555 series oscilloscope point-plot displays (I drive an
original Tektronics 611, I found 'new in the box').
On the HP systems, I enjoy tinkering together hardware interface projects like
tape reader and punch emulators, IDE disk hacks, etc.
5:06 p.m.
On Tue, 5 Feb 2002, Eric Dittman wrote:
> Ok, now's your chance to discuss your
specialty and get the attention of
> other folks who have stuff that you may want.
Cheap Unix Boxes. I've been sort of exploring other Unix stuff, and
other Unix OS's. I tend to like DEC hardware just because it's built
like tanks, and I have a lot of IBM equipment because that's my job. I
do actually like AIX better than the more conventional Unices, maybe
because I have more training.
<flamebait>
I also have this perverse fascination with Macintosh hardware. I
don't like it. I keep wanting to like it, and accumulating more of it.
MacOS 9.1 is the second poorest excuse for an OS I've ever seen.
Windows ME was just barely worse.
</flamebait>
I'd like to have a non-Mac 68k workstation, but I don't know which
yet.
Doc
5:38 p.m.
<flamebait>
I also have this perverse fascination with Macintosh hardware. I
don't like it. I keep wanting to like it, and accumulating more of it.
MacOS 9.1 is the second poorest excuse for an OS I've ever seen.
Classic MacOS is okay (as compared to OS X, which is very beautiful). One
advantage of being a marginalised platform is that while we get less software
in general, that also means we get less *crap* software. So, even though
classic MacOS is cooperatively multitasking and has a perfectly potty memory
allocation and management scheme, it tends to crash less than Windows simply
because we're not shoveling (as much) badly written software in it.
9.x is light-years improved over the old System 7 though. There are
exactly five MacOSes worth using: 6.0.8, 7.1, 8.1, 9.1 and 10.1.x and up.
(Note that Apple rarely gets it right the first time :-) All the others
stink for one reason or another.
Have you tried A/UX? Note to those who asked: I got it working! Mail me
for details if you want the steps I took (YMMV).
--
----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ --
Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser(a)stockholm.ptloma.edu
-- Please dispose of this message in the usual manner. -- Mission: Impossible -
6:35 p.m.
On Tue, 5 Feb 2002, Cameron Kaiser wrote:
allocation and management scheme, it tends to crash
less than Windows simply
because we're not shoveling (as much) badly written software in it.
No argument there at all. But 9.1 broke all my old software, like
Stuffit... And it is sooooo slllooooowwww....
9.x is light-years improved over the old System 7
though. There are
exactly five MacOSes worth using: 6.0.8, 7.1, 8.1, 9.1 and 10.1.x and up.
(Note that Apple rarely gets it right the first time :-) All the others
stink for one reason or another.
8.1 is my favorite for actually doing stuff, with 6.0.8 as the
aesthetic winner.
If I ever get around to talking one of the Macsters here into letting
me evaluate X.1, I'd like to try it. Assuming the OldWorld hacks for
OSX still work. (We're talking about an 8500/180 in a 7200 box....)
Have you tried A/UX? Note to those who asked: I got it
working! Mail me
for details if you want the steps I took (YMMV).
Got it up & on the local network on a Quadra 650, up without ethernet
on the SE/30 (this weekend's project is a SLIP server for him.) and when
I pick up the IIci, I'll probably put MacOS back on the Quadra so I can
play with the DOS card....
I'm seeing a lot of A/UX influence behind user-space Linux.
Doc
6 Feb
6 Feb
2:57 p.m.
allocation and
management scheme, it tends to crash less than Windows simply
because we're not shoveling (as much) badly written software in it.
No argument there at all. But 9.1 broke all my old software, like
Stuffit... And it is sooooo slllooooowwww.... 8.1 is my favorite for actually doing stuff, with
6.0.8 as the
aesthetic winner.
If I ever get around to talking one of the Macsters here into letting
me evaluate X.1, I'd like to try it. Assuming the OldWorld hacks for
OSX still work. (We're talking about an 8500/180 in a 7200 box....)
I'm itchy enough about the OldWorld hacks (especially with my precious 7300)
that I'm not willing to try OS X on my OldWorld Power Macs. Since I plan to
buy myself a top-o'-the-line Power Mac when I graduate from medical school,
I'll be using OS X eventually, but the 7300 will probably be my main machine
even then out of habit.
Have you tried
A/UX? Note to those who asked: I got it working! Mail me
for details if you want the steps I took (YMMV).
Got it up & on the local network on a Quadra 650, up without ethernet
on the SE/30 (this weekend's project is a SLIP server for him.) and when
I pick up the IIci, I'll probably put MacOS back on the Quadra so I can
play with the DOS card.... I'm seeing a lot of A/UX influence behind
user-space Linux.
In what way?
--
----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ --
Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser(a)stockholm.ptloma.edu
-- Had this been an actual emergency, we would have fled already. -------------
5 Feb
5 Feb
9:09 p.m.
For about a year now I have specialized in Apollo's.
I now have 6-DN3500's and 2-3000's. I am running the
Domain OS. They are not all "powered up".
In the last 3 weeks I have acquired 4 VAXen: MicroVAX II,
MicroVAX 3100-30, VAXstation 3100 and VAXstation 2000.
I want to have them on VMS. Right now I am looking for
a ***_DELQA_*** module for the MVII. I have a vt320 and need
to make a cable with the DE9 for it.
On Tue, Feb 05, 2002 at 06:33:29PM -0600, Eric Dittman wrote:
--
Bill
Amsterdam, NL
Ok, now's
your chance to discuss your specialty and get the attention of
other folks who have stuff that you may want.
I collect VAX, PDP-11, and Alpha. I also collect TRS-80. I
would like to add an OSI C1P and an AIM-65, as those two are
systems I always wanted when I was younger.
6 Feb
6 Feb
2:27 p.m.
How would you like some DN330's, or a DN660 with 8-plane
video?
How about a DN4500?
"William S." wrote:
For about a year now I have specialized in
Apollo's.
I now have 6-DN3500's and 2-3000's. I am running the
Domain OS. They are not all "powered up".
In the last 3 weeks I have acquired 4 VAXen: MicroVAX II,
MicroVAX 3100-30, VAXstation 3100 and VAXstation 2000.
I want to have them on VMS. Right now I am looking for
a ***_DELQA_*** module for the MVII. I have a vt320 and need
to make a cable with the DE9 for it.
On Tue, Feb 05, 2002 at 06:33:29PM -0600, Eric Dittman wrote:
--
Bill
Amsterdam, NL
Ok,
now's your chance to discuss your specialty and get the attention of
other folks who have stuff that you may want.
I collect VAX, PDP-11, and Alpha. I also collect TRS-80. I
would like to add an OSI C1P and an AIM-65, as those two are
systems I always wanted when I was younger. 
5 Feb
5 Feb
1:53 p.m.
Ok, I'll byte. If I have a specialty in collecting classic computer
equipment it would have to be Intel Microcomputer Development Systems
(MDS). I have two working Series II (one with a Series III enhancement)
and one working Intel PDS (Personal Development System).
I have tons of reference manuals on these systems and also lots on other
Intel SBC boards (Single Board Computer) based on Multibus I.
I also have most every piece of ISIS software Intel ever released and
lots that was never released ("folklore" as a buddy who worked for Intel
used to call it).
There is a chance that I'll be buying some more (yes, I plea guilty to
the charge of having no life) so if there is anyone who might be
interested in sharing my expenses in picking up some Series II systems
in order to have your very own, let me know. I will make sure it works
and has lots of software.
Dave
Sellam Ismail wrote:
Ok, now's your chance to discuss your specialty and get the attention of
other folks who have stuff that you may want.
I disqualify myself from this discussion because technically a "Specialty
of Everything" is not really specialization.
I want everything and anything ;)
Actually, I do like to specialize where few fear to venture. I have
massive amounts of computer books, magazines, documentation and manuals.
I do not discriminate. If it's a book and it has just about anything at
all to do with computing, it goes into my library. Again, there is a
purpose to this seemingly unquenchable psychosis.
My collection of Y2K preparedness books is probably unrivaled (at this
point probably 30+ volumes and counting).
Somebody's got to do it.
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org
* Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com *
--
Dave Mabry dmabry(a)mich.com
Dossin Museum Underwater Research Team
NACD #2093
2:39 p.m.
I guess the most honest answer would be TRS-80s. I have more of them and
know more about them than anything else in my collection.
6 Feb
6 Feb
11:50 a.m.
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5 Feb
5 Feb
3:09 p.m.
Mine is NeXT cubes and slabs, sgi Indy's, Sun Sparcs and now BeBoxes
James
Sellam Ismail wrote:
Ok, now's your chance to discuss your specialty and
get the attention of
other folks who have stuff that you may want.
I disqualify myself from this discussion because technically a "Specialty
of Everything" is not really specialization.
I want everything and anything ;)
Actually, I do like to specialize where few fear to venture. I have
massive amounts of computer books, magazines, documentation and manuals.
I do not discriminate. If it's a book and it has just about anything at
all to do with computing, it goes into my library. Again, there is a
purpose to this seemingly unquenchable psychosis.
My collection of Y2K preparedness books is probably unrivaled (at this
point probably 30+ volumes and counting).
Somebody's got to do it.
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org
* Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com *
.
5:56 p.m.
My specialties are Commodore: VIC-20, C=64, a little of the 128, and all
Amiga stuff. I'm mostly into hardware hacking. Also into scrounging up
hard to find items in and around the greater KC area, and hamfests.
I have an extensive library on the vic, 64, and Amiga if anyone has a
tech question.
Gary Hildebrand WA7KKP
St. Joseph, MO
3:16 p.m.
I'm interested in any 8-bit computer from 1975-1985 (basically every
computer I couldn't afford as a kid)..only exceptions are my Apple Lisa
and Nextstation. My focus for the next microsecond is anything Apple
Lisa, Commodore PET and Atari related. I'd like to get a KIM-1,
anything Ohio Scientific, an S-100 machine and SOL-20 (like everyone
else). I also try to collect documentation related to these
machines...right now I'm trying to complete my collection of Byte
magazines from 1975-1984.
-Chandra
Ok, now's your chance to discuss your specialty and get the attention of
other folks who have stuff that you may want.
3:50 p.m.
--- Sellam Ismail <foo(a)siconic.com> wrote:
Ok, now's your chance to discuss your specialty and get the attention of
other folks who have stuff that you may want.
I have four specialties with some overlap: DEC, Commodore, 1970s micros
and Motorola 68000 machines...
On the DEC front, I have PDP-8s, PDP-11s, VAXen and one Alpha. I'd love
to locate some "unusual" DEC machines (not 32, 16 or 12 bits), but I've
had no opportunities as of yet. I do have several Flip-Chip PDP-8s and
peripherals, both M-series (TTL) and R-series (DTL). Always looking for
more stuff from that era. Love to have a PT08 (R-series TTY interface
with a W706 and W707 transmit/receive boardset) - got machines with no
console TTY. I'd build my own (got prints), but they use strange
700-series (not 7400-series) Motorola chips. The best I could do would be
a
TTL interface with lots of level converters to get the signals to +/-3VDC
for ones and zeros.
Commodore stuff encompasses PETs (my first computer), C-64s, VIC-20s,
Amigas, etc.
Motorola 68000 machines not made by Commodore include NCR, NeXT, Mac,
old Suns and the like. It's probably one of the only categories of
stuff that I have purged - I gave a pile of S-100 machines including
68K CPUs (prototypes of a product my company never released) to a friend
who returned the favor with a SYM-1 and the possibility of another ASR-33,
which leads me into...
1970s micros - which for me embraces the 6502 and 1802 over other popular
processors of the day. I've never been as enamoured with the 8080 and
Z-80 families as with them. I tend to shy away from Atari equipment
(no doubt due to my Commodore bias) and Tandy, but I'm happy to have
gotten a SYM and an AIM (and still looking for a KIM).
If I had to narrow my focus, I'd probably concentrate on machines with a
12-bit CPU, the PDP-11, the 1802 and the 6502 for collecting. I still
consider the SPARC and 68K and VAX as "work" processors.
I do have some x86 stuff, but it's mostly interesting things (iOpener,
Audrey, Planar, etc.) and things active on my network. I do keep a
Commodore Colt around, but it has an 8-bit ethernet card and drives my
PAL/EPROM blaster. I always enjoyed the fact that I built Amiga hardware
using a Commodore PC.
-ethan
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings!
http://greetings.yahoo.com
7 p.m.
--- Sellam Ismail <foo(a)siconic.com> wrote:
Ok, now's your chance to discuss your specialty and get the attention of
other folks who have stuff that you may want.
Early all-in-ones, such as IBM 5100, IBM 5110, IBM Datamaster, IMSAI VDPs, HP 85/87s,
Osbornes, Kaypros, etc. Big wants are
Superbrains, IMSAI VDP 80, IBM 5120, Decstation 78, Compucorp 625, HP 83, IBM 5100 w/APL.
4:08 p.m.
From: Sellam Ismail <foo(a)siconic.com>
My collection of Y2K preparedness books is probably
unrivaled (at this
here's my one consession to Y2K:
http://personal.lig.bellsouth.net/lig/d/o/dogas/Y2k.jpg
It's a snow globe with a quaint little computer blowing chunks and exploding
bits (1s and 0s) when shaken.... "01-01-00" on front . "it's
comming" on
back.
Somebody's got to do it.
someone's gotta be that sick...
;)
- Mike: dogas(a)bellsouth.net
18 Feb
18 Feb
10:54 a.m.
--- Mike <dogas(a)bellsouth.net> wrote:
From: Sellam Ismail <foo(a)siconic.com>
Someone got me one of those as a present. I think it's in a drawer
somewhere... might be worth something in 998 years or so, yes?
-ethan
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games
http://sports.yahoo.com
My collection of Y2K preparedness books is
probably unrivaled (at this
here's my one consession to Y2K:
http://personal.lig.bellsouth.net/lig/d/o/dogas/Y2k.jpg
It's a snow globe with a quaint little computer blowing chunks and
exploding
bits (1s and 0s) when shaken.... "01-01-00" on front . "it's
comming" on
back. 
5 Feb
5 Feb
4:27 p.m.
Ok, now's your chance to discuss your specialty and
get the attention of
other folks who have stuff that you may want.
Well, I think most people on this list know that my speciality seems to
have become *anything* DEC related (especially/mostly OpenVMS though).
Though quite honestly I'm starting to drift from the hardware realm towards
emulation, thanks largely to the PDP-10 emulation. As a side note, the
"DEC Emulation Website" can be found at
http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/decemu.html it has a *very* strong PDP-10
orientation. There are a couple reasons I'm starting to look at emulation,
instead of running on real hardware, one is that my primary interest is in
the Operating Systems, the other is that the cost of electricity has more
than doubled around here in the last 4 months! Still some stuff can't be
effectively emulated so I don't see me getting rid of any of my DEC
hardware anytime soon :^)
The one item I'm currently the most interested in finding would, without a
doubt be, "Digital Equipment Corporation Reference Series, August-November
1983, Volume 2 Book B". Though I wouldn't mind finding other complete sets
of this from an earlier or later date. I'm also looking for any PDP-10
sales literature, especially price lists and configuration information.
I'm also looking for documentation to fill out the holes in my PDP-11 doc's.
Zane
--
| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator |
| healyzh(a)aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast |
| | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
| Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, |
| PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. |
| http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ |
4:45 p.m.
Ok, now's your chance to discuss your specialty and
get the attention of
other folks who have stuff that you may want.
Apple and Macintosh clones, especially the latter (pre-PPC).
Tom
Applefritter
www.applefritter.com
5:15 p.m.
Ok, now's your chance to discuss your specialty
and get the attention of
other folks who have stuff that you may want.
Commodore 8-bits (actually most 6502 based systems but strongly Commodores),
and classic Macintoshes. I'm also one of the few Tomy Tutor specialists :-)
Recently I've started to get into AIX boxen. I may soon have a whole stable
of them besides poor overworked stockholm, my lonely Apple Network Server.
--
----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ --
Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser(a)stockholm.ptloma.edu
-- People who buy computers from TV commercials *deserve* the Pentium. --------
5:41 p.m.
On Tue, 5 Feb 2002, Cameron Kaiser wrote:
Drool. There's an ANS 700 at Goodwill, minus most of its guts. With
an $80 price tag on it. I have to go 3 rounds with myself every time
I'm there, at that.
Doc
Ok, now's
your chance to discuss your specialty and get the attention of
other folks who have stuff that you may want.
Commodore 8-bits (actually most 6502 based systems but strongly Commodores),
and classic Macintoshes. I'm also one of the few Tomy Tutor specialists :-)
Recently I've started to get into AIX boxen. I may soon have a whole stable
of them besides poor overworked stockholm, my lonely Apple Network Server.
6:02 p.m.
On Tue, 5 Feb 2002, Cameron Kaiser wrote:
Drool. There's an ANS 700 at Goodwill, minus most of its guts. With
an $80 price tag on it. I have to go 3 rounds with myself every time
I'm there, at that.
BUY IT. As long as it has at least one HD tray with mezz board, at least one
key, and the CPU board, you can repopulate it with off-the-shelf stuff.
Regular FPM Power Mac RAM works fine in it, plug an external SCSI CD-ROM
in the back, and any SCSI-1 or SCSI-2 HD in the drive bays. Stick Linux or
(better) NetBSD on it or ask for an AIX 4.1.4.1/4.1.5 CD (I'd copy mine for
you, but it's inaccessible until April).
--
----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ --
Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser(a)stockholm.ptloma.edu
-- The Army needs leaders the way a foot needs a big toe. -- Bill Murray ------
Ok,
now's your chance to discuss your specialty and get the attention of
other folks who have stuff that you may want.
Commodore 8-bits (actually most 6502 based systems but strongly Commodores),
and classic Macintoshes. I'm also one of the few Tomy Tutor specialists :-)
Recently I've started to get into AIX boxen. I may soon have a whole stable
of them besides poor overworked stockholm, my lonely Apple Network Server.
6:45 p.m.
On Tue, 5 Feb 2002, Cameron Kaiser wrote:
BUY IT. As long as it has at least one HD tray with
mezz board, at least one
key, and the CPU board, you can repopulate it with off-the-shelf stuff.
Regular FPM Power Mac RAM works fine in it, plug an external SCSI CD-ROM
in the back, and any SCSI-1 or SCSI-2 HD in the drive bays. Stick Linux or
(better) NetBSD on it or ask for an AIX 4.1.4.1/4.1.5 CD (I'd copy mine for
you, but it's inaccessible until April).
Heh. I'm not sure there's ANYTHING in it that would come out. And
right now, $80 might as well be $8000....
Doc
7:26 p.m.
New subject: What's your specialty? Compile a list of collectors maybe?
Someone should compile this into a collector list, and add it to the faq.
E.
8:59 a.m.
New subject: Compile a list of collectors maybe?
TMK no one at present. The original was written by Bill Whitson when he
started the list and except for subscription updates has remained
unchanged. There have been many discussions on expanding and updating
it, but no one has taken it upon themselves to do so.
Tony Duell wrote an excellent FAQ on 5 1/4 FDDs with additions by Fred
Cisin and there were several things on transferring 8" disks to other formats
as well as many other things in the archives which should be added to it.
I dread more discussion and debate about doing it and it's content tho.
Lawrence
Reply to:
lgwalker(a)mts.net
Someone should
compile this into a collector list, and add it to the faq.
Who maintains the FAQ anyway? Last I saw it was updated 1997.
John A.
5 Feb
5 Feb
6:04 p.m.
of them
besides poor overworked stockholm, my lonely Apple Network Server.
Drool. There's an ANS 700 at Goodwill, minus most of its guts. With
an $80 price tag on it. I have to go 3 rounds with myself every time
I'm there, at that. 
6:19 p.m.
On Tue, 5 Feb 2002, Cameron Kaiser wrote:
Wait -- now that I think about it, you probably
don't even need the mezz
board with the 700. The rear HD brackets should take a SCSI drive directly.
The rear drive mounting bracket plus the necessary power and data cables
are all optional equipment, and proprietary too.
ok
r.
6:38 p.m.
Wait -- now
that I think about it, you probably don't even need the mezz
board with the 700. The rear HD brackets should take a SCSI drive directly.
The rear drive mounting bracket plus the necessary power and data cables
are all optional equipment, and proprietary too.
6 Feb
6 Feb
7:42 a.m.
On Tue, 5 Feb 2002, Cameron Kaiser wrote:
Two data points is not a statistically significant sample. (;
Here's a third data point: my 700 does not have any of the kit.
ok
r.
The rear drive
mounting bracket plus the necessary power and data cables
are all optional equipment, and proprietary too.
Bleh, it probably got stripped as well, but hope springs eternal. It's been
on all (two of :-) the operating 700s I've seen though.
2:12 p.m.
The rear drive mounting bracket plus the necessary
power and data cables
are all optional equipment, and proprietary too.
Bleh, it probably got stripped as well, but hope springs eternal. It's been
on all (two of :-) the operating 700s I've seen though.
2:48 p.m.
On Wed, 6 Feb 2002, Cameron Kaiser wrote:
That's still 66% in my favour! ;-) Of course, I
wouldn't care to calculate
a 95% confidence interval on it, I suppose.
Yes, but forget not that this is the New Improved Austin Goodwill
Computer Works.
It _might_ still be semi-intact.
Only if nobody in the store thought they might be able to eBay the
parts.
Doc
5 Feb
5 Feb
6:46 p.m.
Like many people on this group, I'd HATE to mention
the stuff I had 25 years ago, but I specialize in
(well, actually, make) "homebrew" early micro's from
the beginning of the micro era. I've scratch built and
programmed several 8008's and 8080's, and a 4004 I'm
just now getting around to program. Recently, I've
been starting work on "larger" machines: a 6800
capable of running SWTPC and Motorola software; an
8008 based somewhere between a Mark-8 and a Scelbi 8H
capable of running SCELBAL, a BASIC-like language (for
the 8008!); and an 8080. All are wire-wrapped,
including the 8080, with 256 2102 RAMS (uh...that's
slowed me down a bit, and I'll never do it again). All
are made with NOS or surplus/scrounged components of
proper technological and/or date code vintage. I am
getting increasingly concerned about the smaller
supply and higher prices of prototyping supplies. In
most modern surface mount stuff, things can get
simulated on computer and go right to PCB, so, who
prototypes. But I find prototypes to be almost an art
form - a dying art form. I don't have a lot of space;
some of my computers actually hang on the wall mounted
on plaques!
I've been sidetracked recently with a project that is
based on the SBC6120 at www.sparetimegizmos.com; a
PDP-8/e clone. Here, I'm using a laptop drive, so the
whole thing should run on +5 at 1.2 A or so.
My test equipment is also vintage; a Tek 464, an HP
Nixie-display crystal oven freq counter, and a loaded
Tek 1230 logic analyzer. I couldn't even dream of
owning this stuff when it was new, and now I even have
entire spare units for parts, and I did it all for
considerably less than the cost of a single new
low-end scope. Bargains can be had on eBay if you are
patient and don't lose your head!
I want complete, operational systems capable of doing
something demonstratably interesting with none of this
modern "disc drive" stuff; for peripherals, I have a
DSI paper/mylar tape punch/reader, and a similar
punch-only model. I have a DATA I/O paper tape reader
and a high speed reel to reel Decitek/GE reader. Got
lots of paper and Mylar tape for em, too. A restored
w/new CRT ADM-3A is my primary display; on and off,
I'm working on a modern PIC/UBICOM micro driven 32
character by 16 line vector based display. My
godmother was a top-tier servicer of Teletype model
28's and 33's at Western Electric's mighty Hawthorne
works plant; I'd be in the market for a Teletype but
she's scared me with her statement that "half of what
you need to know was never written down", and she's
getting kind of old...I can't repeat her opinion of
the Model 33 here. I knew one of the engineers who
developed this model, and HE said it was garbage.
I will probably get one or two more vintage CRT
terminals when I find the right ones (like a Televideo
91X, or an ADM-5). I would consider donating a kidney
for a Qwint telprinter, working or not (I wrote and
have the service manual so I could probably fix it).
http://8080geek.freeservers.com (sorry about the
popups)
http://sloboyko.home.mindspring.com/adm3a.htm
http://sloboyko.home.mindspring.com/ptfun.htm
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings!
http://greetings.yahoo.com
5:38 p.m.
My turn:
I specialize in procrastinating in getting specialized in any area.
I've been fascinated by the "Taking control of your collection" thread. I
have now over 220 computers stashed around the house and the shed (not good
here in MN). I have more documentation than I can reasonably read. I have
peripherals that even forgot which computer they are compatible with.
I have been more and more inclined in getting into pocket computers, PDAs
and programmable calculators unfortunately these usually have hard to find
components and a fairly closed architecture.
I also enjoy restoring old video games consoles (well actually any video
game console).
Oh yeah I like hand-held electronic games too (OK not really computers but
most are cute does that count?)
Another one of my big projects is to get French computers to work here (they
already had a hard time working there ;) I'm mostly proud of my brand new in
the box exel 100 that I have never ever even plugged in. I have to build
the video interface someday.
In summary on the receiving end I'm looking for any portable technology,
mostly docs and schematics.
On the offering end mostly 8bit apple, C=, coco, the classics 8 bitters,
macs, early PCs and clones, etc....
Stay tuned for my summer cleanup I'm gonna do it I swear :).
Francois
Ok, now's your chance to discuss your specialty and get the attention of
other folks who have stuff that you may want.
6:10 p.m.
Interesting topic!
I specialize in collecting, perserving, documenting, and sharing
information on machines from the early days of desktop electronic
calculator technology, specifically between the early 1960's, through
the mid-70's (with a few extra later machines of note thrown in).
I also collect documentation (product manuals, service manuals,
advertising and marketing material, marketing giveaways), trade
publications (office machine, electronics technology, and various other
rags that may have information or advertising for old machines), books,
and where possible, information capture directly from folks who lived it
at the time (e.g. engineers, technicians, salespeople, etc.).
I have a website at http://www.geocities.com/oldcalculators which
documents my obsession.
Along with this, I have a few old computers that I like to tinker with,
in no particular order:
PDP 8/E
Sun 3/60
Sun 4/360
Sun Sparc 1
Sun Sparc 1+
Sun Sparc 2
Sun Sparc 5
Sun Sparc 10
Sun Sparc 20
Apple II+
Tandy 600
Tektronix 6130
Tektronix 4132
Tektronix 4319
Rick Bensene
The Old Calcualtor Web Museum
http://www.geocities.com/oldcalculators
7:27 p.m.
On Tue, 5 Feb 2002, Sellam Ismail wrote:
Ok, now's your chance to discuss your specialty
and get the attention
of other folks who have stuff that you may want.
I disqualify myself from this discussion because technically a
"Specialty of Everything" is not really specialization.
I want everything and anything ;)
If I had the warehouse space Sellam has, I would be in the same situation,
or might even fill it more ;)
Currently, I'm limited to a 20ft. x 28ft. building, 1/3-1/2 of it filled
with computers of various makes and models. All the computer gear is due
to move into a 12ft. x 16ft. building once conduit for electrical and low
voltage cable is installed and the sheetrock goes up.
My current "collection" includes (not all are yet complete or functional):
SGI 4D series systems, including 85GT, 210S, 310GTX, and 310VGX
Sun workstations, including 3/160, 3/260, and 4/260
A lone Digital MicroVAX II
Tandy/TRS-80 systems, including models 1, 2, 3, 4, 1000, and 2000
Tandy/CoCo systems models 1, 2, and 3
Apple II systems, including II, II+, IIe, and IIe platinum
Apple Mac systems, including 128k (if I kept it), 512k, and II
Commodore systems, including VIC20, C64, and Amiga
A few small HP systems I can't recall the models of
IBM PS/2 systems, including models 30, 50, 55SX, 60, and hopefully soon p70
A few Genuine IBM PC/XT/AT systems in various configurations
Compaq branded AT class workstations of the 386 era and earlier
(I'm from Houston *shrug*)
Many other systems I can't remember right now.
My favorite systems seem to be SGI, Sun, IBM PS/2 and Apple. I'd still
like to add some NeXT systems to the lineup.
My favorite peripheral devices would have to be Pioneer cdrom changers and
Hayes modems/devices.
I'm a hardware hacker by nature, and software hacker by necessity. I don't
have any inhibitions to working on a system down to its board or BIOS/boot
code level. I tend to repair boards and other hardware when possible
instead of replacing the whole unit.
I also collect vintage audio equipment, and don't mind the repair and
restoration of that kind of gear.
My favorite audio gear from the 60s to early 80s was typically made by
Pioneer, Sansui, or Sony.
-Toth
6 Feb
6 Feb
12:15 p.m.
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4:18 p.m.
New subject: Check out this site!!!
http://www.lindkvist.com/digitaldataporn/xxx.html
Digit Data Porn.... it ain't nake women.... but the photo's are definitely
to drool over!
Curt
9:40 a.m.
New subject: Check out this site!!!
On Wed, 6 Feb 2002, Curt Vendel wrote:
http://www.lindkvist.com/digitaldataporn/xxx.html
Digit Data Porn.... it ain't nake women.... but the photo's are definitely
to drool over!
That's too much. Who did this site? I love it!
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org
* Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com *
7 Feb
7 Feb
2:18 a.m.
New subject: Check out this site!!!
On Wed, 6 Feb 2002, Curt Vendel wrote:
> http://www.lindkvist.com/digitaldataporn/xxx.html
> Digit Data Porn.... it ain't nake women.... but the photo's are definitely
> to drool over!
That's too much. Who did this site? I love it!
insane great - or great insane ?
Whatever.
H.
--
VCF Europa 3.0 am 27./28. April 2002 in Muenchen
http://www.vcfe.org/
6 Feb
6 Feb
8:58 p.m.
New subject: Check out this site!!!
On Thu, 7 Feb 2002, Hans Franke wrote:
I think you are trying to say "insanely great", Herr Jobs.
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org
* Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com *
On Wed, 6 Feb
2002, Curt Vendel wrote:
> http://www.lindkvist.com/digitaldataporn/xxx.html
> Digit Data Porn.... it ain't nake women.... but the photo's are definitely
> to drool over!
That's too much. Who did this site? I love
it!
insane great - or great insane ?
Whatever. 
7 Feb
7 Feb
4:45 p.m.
New subject: Check out this site!!!
The advertising pamphlet for the first PC I bought (in 1987 for over
CAN$3,500) subscribed to the theory that sex sells. I don't have the PC
anymore but I kept the pamphlet. For a peak go to
http://members.shaw.ca/ajwotherspoon/pcii.
Alex
At 19:18 2002-02-06, you wrote:
http://www.lindkvist.com/digitaldataporn/xxx.html
Digit Data Porn.... it ain't nake women.... but the photo's are definitely
to drool over!
Curt
11:29 p.m.
New subject: Check out this site!!!
Heh, heh, heh. This could turn into the new thing. Computer nerds are sexy.
Make a great t-shirt for VCF.
Lawrence
The advertising pamphlet for the first PC I bought (in
1987 for over
CAN$3,500) subscribed to the theory that sex sells. I don't have the PC
anymore but I kept the pamphlet. For a peak go to
http://members.shaw.ca/ajwotherspoon/pcii.
Alex
At 19:18 2002-02-06, you wrote:
Reply to:
lgwalker(a)mts.net
http://www.lindkvist.com/digitaldataporn/xxx.html
Digit Data Porn.... it ain't nake women.... but the photo's are definitely to
drool over!
Curt
10 Feb
10 Feb
8:36 a.m.
New subject: Check out this site!!!
Re:
The advertising pamphlet for the first PC I bought (in
1987 for over
CAN$3,500) subscribed to the theory that sex sells. I don't have the PC
anymore but I kept the pamphlet. For a peak go to
http://members.shaw.ca/ajwotherspoon/pcii.
Interesting...nearly correct English (albeit with a typo or two).
You'd think they'd pay a native English speaker to check it out first.
Stan Sieler sieler(a)allegro.com
www.allegro.com/sieler/wanted/index.html www.allegro.com/sieler
9 Feb
9 Feb
11:04 a.m.
New subject: No one likes Otronas?
Just curious if anyone has an opinion on why this didn't move.
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2001112267 While I
don't know what his minimum is, seems like anything in this family should be
worth about $100 or so, based on what Kaypros and a few others go for. He
had it up once before, and it didn't sell.
And I'm not interested in the merits or demerits of eBay, reputations, yada
yada yada. I just want to know what someone thinks why a classic like this
didn't even get bid on, except by one guy (me).
--John
2 p.m.
New subject: No one likes Otronas?
I just want to know what someone thinks why a classic
like this
didn't even get bid on, except by one guy (me).
Why? Wrong category.
Antiques & Art:Antiques:Other Antiques interesting.
Computers:Desktop PCs:Other bad choice.
Computers:Other Hardware:Vintage:Other best choice.
I got a good piece of Tek test equipment for 1/2 price once because
it was misfiled. I don't know 'Computers:Desktop PCs:Other' well, so,
a gut feeling on this.
John A.
2:59 p.m.
New subject: No one likes Otronas?
Interesting. I guess my eBay trolling method is to use the search tools to
look for things I want, rather than browsing the categories. That, for me,
just takes too bloody long, and I get tired of 'L@@k!', and 'Rare 386/25
Mobo!'.
--John
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org
[mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of John Allain
Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2002 20:00 PM
To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org
Subject: Re: No one likes Otronas?
I just want to know what someone thinks why a
classic like this
didn't even get bid on, except by one guy (me).
Why? Wrong category.
Antiques & Art:Antiques:Other Antiques interesting.
Computers:Desktop PCs:Other bad choice.
Computers:Other Hardware:Vintage:Other best choice.
I got a good piece of Tek test equipment for 1/2 price once because
it was misfiled. I don't know 'Computers:Desktop PCs:Other' well, so,
a gut feeling on this.
John A.
3:15 p.m.
New subject: No one likes Otronas?
Interesting. I guess my eBay trolling method is to
use the search tools to
look for things I want, rather than browsing the categories. That, for me,
just takes too bloody long, and I get tired of 'L@@k!', and 'Rare 386/25
Mobo!'.
I use the search tools instead of browsing, too. I have a set
of bookmarks to make things quicker.
--
Eric Dittman
dittman(a)dittman.net
Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/
11 Feb
11 Feb
6:23 p.m.
New subject: No one likes Otronas?
On 10-Feb-2002 Eric Dittman wrote:
Do you mean the "my eBay" feature that e-mail's you when a new item that
meets your search has been listed?
-Philip
Interesting. I guess my eBay trolling method is to use the search
tools to
look for things I want, rather than browsing the categories. That, for
me,
just takes too bloody long, and I get tired of 'L@@k!', and 'Rare
386/25
Mobo!'.
I use the search tools instead of browsing, too. I have a set
of bookmarks to make things quicker.
12 Feb
12 Feb
4:16 a.m.
New subject: No one likes Otronas?
Interesting. I guess my eBay trolling method is
to use the search
tools to
look for things I want, rather than browsing the categories. That, for
me,
just takes too bloody long, and I get tired of 'L@@k!', and 'Rare
386/25
Mobo!'.
I use the search tools instead of browsing, too. I have a set
of bookmarks to make things quicker.
9 Feb
9 Feb
2:16 p.m.
New subject: No one likes Otronas?
Just curious if anyone has an opinion on why this
didn't move.
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2001112267 While I
don't know what his minimum is, seems like anything in this family should be
worth about $100 or so, based on what Kaypros and a few others go for. He
had it up once before, and it didn't sell.
And I'm not interested in the merits or demerits of eBay, reputations, yada
yada yada. I just want to know what someone thinks why a classic like this
didn't even get bid on, except by one guy (me).
--John
I don't normally bid on items with reserves, and I think many others operate the same
way. People use reserves because they think
that starting low may generate a bidding frenzy that will drive the price up. It probably
has the opposite effect by attracting
bottom feeders that will never bid high, and turning off some people who might actually be
interested but don't want the additional
hassle of having to bid against the seller's reserve.
-W
3:07 p.m.
New subject: Dead CMOS Battery - NEC Powermate portable
The CMOS battery on my NEC Powermate portable is dead. The batter is two 3 volt MnO2-Li
batteries taped together and attached to a
connector. Anyone know what I can use as a substitute?
-W
3:49 p.m.
New subject: Dead CMOS Battery - NEC Powermate portable
At 06:07 PM 2/9/02 -0800, you wrote:
The CMOS battery on my NEC Powermate portable is dead.
The batter is two
3 volt MnO2-Li batteries taped together and attached to a
connector. Anyone know what I can use as a
substitute?
Is this a trick question???? How about ANY two 3-volt lithium
batteries connected in series? OR how about four 1.5-volt batteries in
series? OR five 1.2-vlot NiCads in series (I'll bet that four batteries
would work too) OR even three 2-volt lead acid cells if you're desperate
and don't care what the fumes will eventually do to the insides of the
computer.
Joe
8:33 p.m.
New subject: Dead CMOS Battery - NEC Powermate portable
At 06:07 PM 2/9/02 -0800, you wrote:
It is, perhaps, a stupid question; and I'm familiar with 3 volt lithiums. What
I'm attempting to get at, more precisely, is there
anything special about the Mn02-Li's that I need to know about?
The CMOS battery on my NEC Powermate portable is
dead. The batter is two
3 volt MnO2-Li batteries taped together and attached to
a
connector. Anyone know what I can use as a
substitute?
Is this a trick question???? How about ANY two 3-volt lithium
batteries connected in series?
10 Feb
10 Feb
4:11 a.m.
New subject: Dead CMOS Battery - NEC Powermate portable
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11:08 a.m.
New subject: Dead CMOS Battery - NEC Powermate portable
>
> It is, perhaps, a stupid question; and I'm familiar with 3 volt lithiums. What
I'm attempting to get at, more precisely, is
there
anything
special about the Mn02-Li's that I need to know about?
YEs, don't recharge them. They _will_ explode.
1:26 p.m.
New subject: Dead CMOS Battery - NEC Powermate portable
At 02:08 PM 2/10/02 -0800, you wrote:
> >
> > It is, perhaps, a stupid question; and I'm familiar with 3 volt
lithiums. What I'm attempting to get at, more precisely, is
there
Thanks. I thought the difference, if there were one, might be that the
MnO2s
were the rechargeable type.
There are SOME types of lithium batteries that can be recharged but I
don't think any of the common consumer type Lithium batteries can. I THINK
the rechargeable ones are also 3.6 volt so they're not suitable for what
you need anyway.
Joe
anything
special about the Mn02-Li's that I need to know about?
YEs, don't recharge them. They _will_ explode.
4:30 p.m.
New subject: Dead CMOS Battery - NEC Powermate portable
Not sure if there were rechargable litiums but they have had, and still
have, rechargeable alkalin batteries - my son has 2 sets he swaps in/out for
his Handspring Deluxe PDA (AAA).
=> -----Original Message-----
=> From: owner-classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org
=> [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Joe
=> Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2002 6:27 PM
=> To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org
=> Subject: Re: Dead CMOS Battery - NEC Powermate portable
=>
=>
=> At 02:08 PM 2/10/02 -0800, you wrote:
=> >> >
=> >> > It is, perhaps, a stupid question; and I'm familiar with 3 volt
=> lithiums. What I'm attempting to get at, more precisely, is
=> >there
=> >> > anything special about the Mn02-Li's that I need to know about?
=> >>
=> >> YEs, don't recharge them. They _will_ explode.
=> >>
=> >Thanks. I thought the difference, if there were one, might be that the
=> MnO2s were the rechargeable type.
=>
=> There are SOME types of lithium batteries that can be recharged but I
=> don't think any of the common consumer type Lithium batteries
=> can. I THINK
=> the rechargeable ones are also 3.6 volt so they're not suitable for what
=> you need anyway.
=>
=> Joe
=>
=>
11 Feb
11 Feb
10:31 a.m.
New subject: Dead CMOS Battery - NEC Powermate portable
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1:52 a.m.
New subject: Dead CMOS Battery - NEC Powermate portable
At 07:26 PM 2/10/02 -0500, Joe wrote:
At 02:08 PM 2/10/02 -0800, you wrote:
There are rechargeable lithium batteries. They need tailored,
cpu-controlled intelligent chargers, though. The thing
is, the become chemically unstable if overcharged in any way,
and can explode.
--------------------------------------------------------------
Carlos E. Murillo-Sanchez carlos_murillo(a)nospammers.ieee.org
> >
> > It is, perhaps, a stupid question; and I'm familiar with 3 volt
lithiums. What I'm attempting to get at, more precisely, is
there
> > anything special about the Mn02-Li's that I need to know about?
>
> YEs, don't recharge them. They _will_ explode.
There are SOME types of lithium batteries that can be recharged but I
don't think any of the common consumer type Lithium batteries can. I THINK
the rechargeable ones are also 3.6 volt so they're not suitable for what
you need anyway.
10 Feb
10 Feb
1:36 p.m.
New subject: Dead CMOS Battery - NEC Powermate portable
At 03:11 PM 2/10/02 +0000, you wrote:
Tony,
Some (mostly non-consumer type) Lithium batteries use sulfur dioxide in
them. Not the kind of thing that you want to rupture inside your PC (or in
your house!). For the ones of you that aren't familar with the stuff,
sulfur dioxide is nuseating and toxic, and it also reacts with moisture to
form sulfuric acid, INCLUDING the moisture inside your lungs!
Joe
>
> It is, perhaps, a stupid question; and I'm familiar with 3 volt
lithiums.
What I'm attempting to get at, more precisely, is there
anything
special about the Mn02-Li's that I need to know about?
YEs, don't recharge them. They _will_ explode.
Seriously, I thought most 'lithium' cells were actually Li - MnO2. So
there's noting 'exotic' about them.
12:04 p.m.
New subject: Dead CMOS Battery - NEC Powermate portable
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11 Feb
11 Feb
3:44 a.m.
New subject: Dead CMOS Battery - NEC Powermate portable
At 11:04 PM 2/10/02 +0000, you wrote:
I wa swaiting for his. You're right. but SO2 can react with O2 and
moisture in the air to form H2SO4. In fact, that's how sulfuric acid is (or
was) prodused commercailly. I certain proportion of H2SO3 is also produced
I'm told that it's only a small amount and it's some how removed and
retreated to form H2SO4.
Some
(mostly non-consumer type) Lithium batteries use sulfur dioxide in
them. Not the kind of thing that you want to rupture inside your PC (or in
But presumably in solution, not as a gas...
your house!). For the ones of you that aren't
familar with the stuff,
sulfur dioxide is nuseating and toxic, and it also reacts with moisture to
form sulfuric acid, INCLUDING the moisture inside your lungs!
No it doesn't. It forms sulphurous acid (H2SO3), which is a much weaker
acid than sulphuric (which is what you get if you disolve sulphur
trioxide in water).
I an not suggesting that SO2 is particularly pleasant, but I am sure most
of us here have burnt sulphur as part of a school chemistry experiment
and lived to tell the tale.
Yes, but that's a lot less S02 than the amount in the batteries. I'm not
suggesting that everyone of the room is going to die but if one of the
batteries ruptures, it will certainly empty the room in a hurry!
Joe
11:21 a.m.
New subject: Dead CMOS Battery - NEC Powermate portable
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10 Feb
10 Feb
4:30 p.m.
New subject: Dead CMOS Battery - NEC Powermate portable
Same stuff that combines in the atmosphere (clouds) to form rain made of
sulfuric acid - acid rain.
My previous post on the exploding lithium on a NiCD port I failed to mention
what it did to the traces and open chip legs - corroded the crap out of them
and it did indeed stink the hous eup but I always leave my shop window open
a crack since I have a habit of using a lot of volatile chemicals for
cleaning and such.
=> -----Original Message-----
=> From: owner-classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org
=> [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Joe
=> Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2002 6:37 PM
=> To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org
=> Subject: Re: Dead CMOS Battery - NEC Powermate portable
=>
=>
=> At 03:11 PM 2/10/02 +0000, you wrote:
=> >>
=> >> It is, perhaps, a stupid question; and I'm familiar with 3 volt
=> lithiums. What I'm attempting to get at, more precisely, is there
=> >> anything special about the Mn02-Li's that I need to know about?
=> >
=> >YEs, don't recharge them. They _will_ explode.
=> >
=> >Seriously, I thought most 'lithium' cells were actually Li - MnO2. So
=> >there's noting 'exotic' about them.
=>
=> Tony,
=>
=> Some (mostly non-consumer type) Lithium batteries use sulfur
=> dioxide in
=> them. Not the kind of thing that you want to rupture inside your
=> PC (or in
=> your house!). For the ones of you that aren't familar with the stuff,
=> sulfur dioxide is nuseating and toxic, and it also reacts with
=> moisture to
=> form sulfuric acid, INCLUDING the moisture inside your lungs!
=>
=> Joe
=>
=>
5:15 p.m.
New subject: Dead CMOS Battery - NEC Powermate portable
On Sun, 10 Feb 2002, Russ Blakeman wrote:
Same stuff that combines in the atmosphere (clouds) to
form rain made of
sulfuric acid - acid rain.
That's sulfurous acid. Sulfuric acid is formed from Sulfur Trioxide. The
formations are given below.
Sulfurous Acid
SO2 + H2O -> H2SO3
Sulfuric Acid
SO3 + H20 -> H2SO4
Sulfuric acid is much more dangerous than sulfurous acid. Remember,
Johnny was a chemistry student, now Johnny is no more. For what he
thought was H2O, was H2SO4.
Peace... Sridhar
6:36 p.m.
New subject: Dead CMOS Battery - NEC Powermate portable
Oaky so I got C's in chemistry - same nasty idea anyway
=> -----Original Message-----
=> From: owner-classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org
=> [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Julius Sridhar
=> Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2002 10:15 PM
=> To: Russ Blakeman
=> Cc: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org
=> Subject: RE: Dead CMOS Battery - NEC Powermate portable
=>
=>
=> On Sun, 10 Feb 2002, Russ Blakeman wrote:
=>
=> > Same stuff that combines in the atmosphere (clouds) to form
=> rain made of
=> > sulfuric acid - acid rain.
=>
=> That's sulfurous acid. Sulfuric acid is formed from Sulfur
=> Trioxide. The
=> formations are given below.
=>
=> Sulfurous Acid
=> SO2 + H2O -> H2SO3
=>
=> Sulfuric Acid
=> SO3 + H20 -> H2SO4
=>
=> Sulfuric acid is much more dangerous than sulfurous acid. Remember,
=> Johnny was a chemistry student, now Johnny is no more. For what he
=> thought was H2O, was H2SO4.
=>
=> Peace... Sridhar
=>
=>
11 Feb
11 Feb
10:34 a.m.
New subject: Dead CMOS Battery - NEC Powermate portable
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12:06 p.m.
New subject: Dead CMOS Battery - NEC Powermate portable
On Mon, 11 Feb 2002, Tony Duell wrote:
That's the hazard to which I refer. When concentrated, you're usually
dead before the toxicity can cause too many problems.
Peace... Sridhar
Sulfuric acid
is much more dangerous than sulfurous acid. Remember,
Johnny was a chemistry student, now Johnny is no more. For what he
thought was H2O, was H2SO4.
Actually, none of the common mineral acids (hydrochloric, sulphuric,
nitric) are particularly toxic if dilute. There are plenty of chemicals I
would not drink in solution (no matter how dilute), but those 3 acids are
not amongst them. They wouldn't do me much good, but they'd not kill me
either.
The main hazard from such acids is, of course, that they tend to
'corrode' you if concnetrated...
10 Feb
10 Feb
6:53 p.m.
New subject: Dead CMOS Battery - NEC Powermate portable
On Sun, 10 Feb 2002, Russ Blakeman wrote:
Same stuff that combines in the atmosphere (clouds) to
form rain made
of sulfuric acid - acid rain.
My previous post on the exploding lithium on a NiCD port I failed to
mention what it did to the traces and open chip legs - corroded the
crap out of them and it did indeed stink the hous eup but I always
leave my shop window open a crack since I have a habit of using a lot
of volatile chemicals for cleaning and such.
Did ya try a little baking soda on the board soon after the battery
exploded? I've never has to experience a lithium battery explosion, but
baking soda does tend to clean up well after other mild acidic accidents.
-Toth
11 Feb
11 Feb
2:10 a.m.
New subject: Dead CMOS Battery - NEC Powermate portable
Wasn't worth the trouble really as I had 6 of the same type board at the
time so I stripped the keyboard bios chip (to replace a bad one on another
exact type) and chucked it in the scrap bin for the recycler. Not even sure
if it would have worked, the stuff from the battery worked pretty quick. It
did eat off some of the PC board trace IIRC where it wasn't varnished.
=> -----Original Message-----
=> From: owner-classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org
=> [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Tothwolf
=> Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2002 11:54 PM
=> To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org
=> Subject: RE: Dead CMOS Battery - NEC Powermate portable
=>
=>
=> On Sun, 10 Feb 2002, Russ Blakeman wrote:
=>
=> > Same stuff that combines in the atmosphere (clouds) to form rain made
=> > of sulfuric acid - acid rain.
=> >
=> > My previous post on the exploding lithium on a NiCD port I failed to
=> > mention what it did to the traces and open chip legs - corroded the
=> > crap out of them and it did indeed stink the hous eup but I always
=> > leave my shop window open a crack since I have a habit of using a lot
=> > of volatile chemicals for cleaning and such.
=>
=> Did ya try a little baking soda on the board soon after the battery
=> exploded? I've never has to experience a lithium battery explosion, but
=> baking soda does tend to clean up well after other mild acidic accidents.
=>
=> -Toth
=>
=>
10 Feb
10 Feb
4:30 p.m.
New subject: Dead CMOS Battery - NEC Powermate portable
And oh boy do they explode - had a lithium attached by a dufus to the solder
points of the old NIcd on a 386 motherboard - he ran it maybe 3 mins after
he did the swap out - me running it, without knowing he was a dumbass that
wired a litium to a recharge point, got the thrill of a loud pop and sputter
as the lithium battery's guts (hot too) shot all over the powered maiboard.
Not fun on the cardiac system at all.
=> -----Original Message-----
=> From: owner-classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org
=> [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Tony Duell
=> Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2002 9:11 AM
=> To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org
=> Subject: Re: Dead CMOS Battery - NEC Powermate portable
=>
=>
=> >
=> > It is, perhaps, a stupid question; and I'm familiar with 3
=> volt lithiums. What I'm attempting to get at, more precisely, is there
=> > anything special about the Mn02-Li's that I need to know about?
=>
=> YEs, don't recharge them. They _will_ explode.
=>
=> Seriously, I thought most 'lithium' cells were actually Li - MnO2. So
=> there's noting 'exotic' about them.
=>
=> -tony
=>
11 Feb
11 Feb
10:29 a.m.
New subject: Dead CMOS Battery - NEC Powermate portable
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10 Feb
10 Feb
1:36 a.m.
New subject: Dead CMOS Battery - NEC Powermate portable
Mine just has a small 4.5v lithium. the type that you use on AT's and AT
clones of the period with 3 or 4 inch leads and velcros inside. Been in
there for about 4 yrs and it works fine, you just have to be careful where
you velcro or tie it down to be able to let add-in ISA cards work with it
too. My other Powermate portables had this same type battery, wonder is
someone didn't make that up themselves or just find a decent substitute. I
can't see that it needs a 6v (2x3) cmos source either.
=> -----Original Message-----
=> From: owner-classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org
=> [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Wayne M. Smith
=> Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2002 8:08 PM
=> To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org
=> Subject: Dead CMOS Battery - NEC Powermate portable
=>
=>
=> The CMOS battery on my NEC Powermate portable is dead. The
=> batter is two 3 volt MnO2-Li batteries taped together and attached to a
=> connector. Anyone know what I can use as a substitute?
=>
=> -W
=>
=>
3:54 a.m.
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9 Feb
9 Feb
9:31 p.m.
New subject: No one likes Otronas?
I personally have never seen an item with a reserve that I felt was within
range of what I'd pay.
As for the Otrona ... which is a local product, having been made in Boulder
... these things were trouble from the "git-go" in that several things were
known sources of trouble, including but not limited to the FDC. The only ones
(in terms of organization users) I've ever seen with Otrona machines have been
IRS types.
I wouldn't want one, even as a gift. Now, I'm not a collector, i.e. I
wouldn't want a non-functional i8080 chip either, no matter what the color.
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne M. Smith" <wmsmith(a)earthlink.net>
To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2002 6:16 PM
Subject: Re: No one likes Otronas?
the same way. People use reserves because they think
> Just curious if anyone has an opinion on why this
didn't move.
> http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2001112267 While I
> don't know what his minimum is, seems like anything in this family should
be
> worth about $100 or so, based on what Kaypros and
a few others go for. He
> had it up once before, and it didn't sell.
>
> And I'm not interested in the merits or demerits of eBay, reputations,
yada
> yada yada. I just want to know what someone
thinks why a classic like
this
didn't
even get bid on, except by one guy (me).
--John
I don't normally bid on items with reserves, and I think many others operate
that starting low may generate a bidding frenzy that
will drive the price
up. It probably has the opposite effect by attracting
bottom feeders that will never bid high, and turning
off some people who
might actually be interested but don't want the additional
hassle of having to bid against the seller's
reserve.
-W
10:13 p.m.
New subject: No one likes Otronas?
On Sun, 10 Feb 2002, Richard Erlacher wrote:
I personally have never seen an item with a reserve
that I felt was within
range of what I'd pay.
To my recollection, I've only ever bid on 3 items that had a reserve.
None of the three made the reserve, and 2 of the sellers were surplus
dealers who subsequently lost their eBay accounts because the kept
offering me "related" deals by email. The third is 2 strikes down. The
next time he emails me I'll report him too.
I think a lot of resellers don't expect to sell on ebay, they just
want contact info of people with a demonstrated (by bidding) interest in
their product.
Doc
10 Feb
10 Feb
9:45 a.m.
New subject: No one likes Otronas?
I personally have never seen an item with a reserve
that I felt was within
range of what I'd pay.
As for the Otrona ... which is a local product, having been made in Boulder ...
these things were trouble from the "git-go" in that several things were known
sources of trouble, including but not limited to the FDC. The only ones (in
terms of organization users) I've ever seen with Otrona machines have been IRS
types.
Strange, I was just reading an article in Byte by Jerry Pounelle from October
1983. He wrote it while on the road with his Otrona. As Byte's main reviewer
he had a choice of most of the machines that were out during this period.
But I guess he wasn't that good a tech person and since he was also a sci-fi
writer who used word-processing a lot just overlooked the Otronas (obvious
to you) glaring faults.
Lawrence
I wouldn't want one, even as a gift. Now, I'm
not a collector, i.e. I
wouldn't want a non-functional i8080 chip either, no matter what the color.
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne M. Smith" <wmsmith(a)earthlink.net>
To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2002 6:16 PM
Subject: Re: No one likes Otronas?
the same way. People use reserves because they think
Reply to:
lgwalker(a)mts.net
> Just curious if anyone has an opinion on why
this didn't move.
> http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2001112267 While I
> don't know what his minimum is, seems like anything in this family should
be
> worth about $100 or so, based on what
Kaypros and a few others go for. He
> had it up once before, and it didn't sell.
>
> And I'm not interested in the merits or demerits of eBay, reputations,
yada
> yada yada. I just want to know what someone
thinks why a classic like
this
didn't even get bid on, except by one guy (me).
--John
I don't normally bid on items with reserves, and I think many others operate that starting low may generate a bidding frenzy
that will drive the price
up. It probably has the opposite effect by attracting
bottom feeders that will never bid high, and
turning off some people who
might actually be interested but don't want the
additional
hassle of having to bid against the seller's
reserve.
-W
11:32 a.m.
New subject: No one likes Otronas?
When I first saw one I wanted it - soo small!! now I hear
they are not that good. (well also wanted a Fiero first time
I saw one.. (subject to engine fires )^: )
> As for the Otrona ... which is a local product,
having been made in Boulder ...
> these things were trouble from the "git-go" in that several things were
known
> sources of trouble, including but not limited to the FDC.
If I wanted to build a smallish system with a tube like a modern
day Otrona or Kaypro, could I still find a "monitor"?
9:45 a.m.
New subject: No one likes Otronas?
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7 p.m.
New subject: No one likes Otronas?
Thanks Tony,
I live on the wrong side of the big pond too,
Perhaps I'll just buy one of the new (ot) ~$300
14" lcd screens.. and make a more modrun lunchbox
Tony Duell wrote:
I've got the service manuals for some pretty small
open-chassis VGA
monitors. 5" CRT, for example. I believe they were made by Kent Modular
Electronics in the UK
Be warned that such things are not cheap. A lot more expensive than (say)
a 15" or 17" VGA monitor.
-tony
7:32 p.m.
New subject: No one likes Otronas?
On Sun, 10 Feb 2002, Ron Hudson wrote:
Doc wrote:
All 4 of the laptops I've dismantled had ribbon interfaces much like
the floppy cables. I have no idea what sort of signal drives them.
I _would_ like to know what that type of cable is properly called.
Flat mylar(?) with applied traces, not wires, attaches to the PCB with a
clamping header?
Doc
The 8"-9" lcd screens from 486-era
laptops come to mind.
Doc
Are they hard to interface to? do you send them
video? 
11 Feb
11 Feb
6:03 a.m.
New subject: No one likes Otronas?
On Mon, 11 Feb 2002, Doc wrote:
On Sun, 10 Feb 2002, Ron Hudson wrote:
Color TFT interface is pretty simple, much like CRT video interface but
digital data. Mono (passive) probably uses 8 bit U/L (4 bit = 4 pixels upper
screen half/4 bit= 4 pixels lower screen half so one clock writes 8 pixels)
Color passive display interfaces are a real mess...
Doc wrote:
All 4 of the laptops I've dismantled had ribbon interfaces much like
the floppy cables. I have no idea what sort of signal drives them. The 8"-9" lcd screens from 486-era
laptops come to mind.
Doc
Are they hard to interface to? do you send them
video?
I _would_ like to know what that type of cable is properly called.
Flat mylar(?) with applied traces, not wires, attaches to the PCB with a
clamping header?
Doc
My literature refers to them as FFC's (Flat Flexible Cables)
We use some .5mm pitch ones for interfacing to small LCDs
Peter Wallace
2:40 p.m.
New subject: No one likes Otronas?
On Mon, 11 Feb 2002, Peter C. Wallace wrote:
Thanks, Peter!
Doc
I _would_
like to know what that type of cable is properly called.
Flat mylar(?) with applied traces, not wires, attaches to the PCB with a
clamping header?
Doc
My literature refers to them as FFC's (Flat Flexible Cables)
We use some .5mm pitch ones for interfacing to small LCDs
10:43 a.m.
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10:42 a.m.
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12:39 p.m.
New subject: HP 110 display, was Re: No one likes Otronas?
At 09:42 PM 2/11/02 +0000, you wrote:
Not quite the same thing, but I was looking at the
signals going to the
display in the HP110 and 110+ last night. These machines have
dot-addressable monochrome displays. There are 11 wires :
Tony,
You're right about there being 4 clocks, but the interaction is somewhat
more complicated because of the way the controller is driving the display.
Rather than bore the list with details, let me know via private e-mail if you
want all the gory details regarding the 110.
Cheers,
Dan
1:23 p.m.
New subject: No one likes Otronas?
On Mon, 11 Feb 2002, Tony Duell wrote:
Probably just a standard 4 bit mono LCD interface:
4 data bits (4 pixels in a horizontal line)
clocks: (from highest to lowest freq)
CL2 = data clock - each clock clocks in 4 pixels
CL1 = line sync - like hsync
FLM = first line marker - like vsync
M = backplane AC
M is usually a slow square wave
Actually they are pretty simple to drive...
Peter Wallace
Doc wrote:
Not quite the same thing, but I was looking at the signals going to the
display in the HP110 and 110+ last night. These machines have
dot-addressable monochrome displays. There are 11 wires :
3 power : Groumd. +5V, -8 to -13V (depending on the contrast setting)
4 clocks :
a) What looks like a dot clock or data strobe
b) Possibly start-of-line sync
c) Possibly start-of-frame sync
d) What looked to be an LCD backplane drive clock
4 data lines. No idea (yet) on what the data means, but these pins did
not have regular clock-like waveforms on them.
Probably not trivial to drive. HP used a custom chip in the 110 (with an
8K*k SRAM alongside it) and a different custom _hybrid_ in the 110+ (a
similar custom chip and 2 8K*8 SRAMs in the same package).
-tony
The 8"-9" lcd screens from 486-era
laptops come to mind.
Doc
Are they hard to interface to? do you send them
video?
2:12 p.m.
New subject: No one likes Otronas?
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3:58 p.m.
New subject: Mylar LT cable was No one likes Otronas?
On this off-topic note. Anyone have a display connector for a Compaq LTE
Lite 4/33C ? Tech notes describe it as part # 138409 or 138408 or
replacement part #138326. Fragile little buggers.
Lawrence
Reply to:
lgwalker(a)mts.net
Doc wrote:
Not quite the same thing, but I was looking at the signals going to the
display in the HP110 and 110+ last night. These machines have
dot-addressable monochrome displays. There are 11 wires :
3 power : Groumd. +5V, -8 to -13V (depending on the contrast setting)
4 clocks :
a) What looks like a dot clock or data strobe
b) Possibly start-of-line sync
c) Possibly start-of-frame sync
d) What looked to be an LCD backplane drive clock
4 data lines. No idea (yet) on what the data means, but these pins did
not have regular clock-like waveforms on them.
Probably not trivial to drive. HP used a custom chip in the 110 (with an
8K*k SRAM alongside it) and a different custom _hybrid_ in the 110+ (a
similar custom chip and 2 8K*8 SRAMs in the same package).
-tony The 8"-9" lcd screens from 486-era
laptops come to mind.
Doc
Are they hard to interface to? do you send them
video?
6:15 p.m.
New subject: Mylar LT cable was No one likes Otronas?
On Mon, 11 Feb 2002, Lawrence Walker wrote:
On this off-topic note. Anyone have a display
connector for a Compaq
LTE Lite 4/33C ? Tech notes describe it as part # 138409 or 138408 or
replacement part #138326. Fragile little buggers.
Well, I wish I did. Someone here in Houston certainly has some...I passed
up on a pile of them locally awhile back, and was told a guy came in and
bought the whole box :/
Compaq *might* still sell you one through a dealer, but it won't be cheap.
-Toth
12 Feb
12 Feb
8:59 a.m.
New subject: Mylar LT cable was No one likes Otronas?
Yeah, you can buy a working LTE for less than their price. When they finally
discontinue them, they'll wind up in a dumpster.
Lawrence
On Mon, 11 Feb 2002, Lawrence Walker wrote:
Reply to:
lgwalker(a)mts.net
On this off-topic note. Anyone have a display
connector for a Compaq
LTE Lite 4/33C ? Tech notes describe it as part # 138409 or 138408 or
replacement part #138326. Fragile little buggers.
Well, I wish I did. Someone here in Houston certainly has some...I passed
up on a pile of them locally awhile back, and was told a guy came in and
bought the whole box :/
Compaq *might* still sell you one through a dealer, but it won't be cheap.
-Toth
9:26 a.m.
New subject: Mylar LT cable was No one likes Otronas?
Yeah, you can buy a working LTE for less than their
price. When they finally
discontinue them, they'll wind up in a dumpster.
Lawrence
I don't have kind words for compaq notebooks. They break up and they
don't age well. I know since I fixed one of those too as well as my
former LTE 386s/20 and current aero 4/25.
While you have it apart, tear it down more, when rebuilding it up,
have dab of on last few threads w/ blue loctite to lock all the
screws down from loosening with use. For the hinge and it's
supports, please make a habit of looking over them CAREFULLY and
brace everything if you do find any cracks *especially* for hinge
archors points area on both halves and LCD top. Too often users
mistake the "play" in the display hinge "brake" assembly which was
the loose screws or, cracking or worse breaking up supports.
When I got these notebooks from customers for repairs, even in 3
years old notebook I still find loose screws (D*ll) and a dead Acer
to fix up, very recent model.
I find Solo 2300 better built after fixing all the screws with
loctite. Every one of 2300 has loose screws even the one under the
CPU module. The LCD power/signal cable in solo 2300, and often used
in IBM thinkpads is rolled up loosely so it didn't twist hard like
other brands did. So far haven't looked inside of newest notebooks
besides these two.
IBM was wise enough to use locking materials pre-applied to all
screws used in notebooks as early as '93.
Cheers,
Wizard
10 Feb
10 Feb
1:29 p.m.
New subject: No one likes Otronas?
On Sun, 10 Feb 2002, Richard Erlacher wrote:
I personally have never seen an item with a reserve
that I felt was within
range of what I'd pay.
As for the Otrona ... which is a local product, having been made in Boulder
... these things were trouble from the "git-go" in that several things were
known sources of trouble, including but not limited to the FDC. The only ones
You mean the ubiquitous NEC 765, of course. I remember the folks at
Myvroft Labs writing a preface paragraph to their little manual for
their communications program for the Attache' wondering why anyone would
choose such a "brain dead chip" for that machine.
- don
(in terms of organization users) I've ever seen
with Otrona machines have been
IRS types.
I wouldn't want one, even as a gift. Now, I'm not a collector, i.e. I
wouldn't want a non-functional i8080 chip either, no matter what the color.
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne M. Smith" <wmsmith(a)earthlink.net>
To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2002 6:16 PM
Subject: Re: No one likes Otronas?
the same way. People use reserves because they think
> Just curious if anyone has an opinion on why
this didn't move.
> http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2001112267 While I
> don't know what his minimum is, seems like anything in this family should
be
> worth about $100 or so, based on what
Kaypros and a few others go for. He
> had it up once before, and it didn't sell.
>
> And I'm not interested in the merits or demerits of eBay, reputations,
yada
> yada yada. I just want to know what someone
thinks why a classic like
this
didn't even get bid on, except by one guy (me).
--John
I don't normally bid on items with reserves, and I think many others operate that starting low may generate a bidding frenzy
that will drive the price
up. It probably has the opposite effect by attracting
bottom feeders that will never bid high, and
turning off some people who
might actually be interested but don't want the
additional
hassle of having to bid against the seller's
reserve.
-W
8 Feb
8 Feb
10:28 a.m.
On Wed, 6 Feb 2002, Tony Duell wrote:
Sounds like the same reasons I write code. My favorite stuff to work on
are old boards full of nothing but logic gates and such. Modern gear
usually contains a few ASIC chips and a few support components. I miss
being able to troubleshoot a board with nothing but a multimeter and a
logic probe.
Or, the part is so expensive, that replacement would cost more than the
whole board. In those cases, I pack the board away in a box with a note to
myself as to what is wrong with it and why I didn't repair it. I've later
repaired some boards like this, when the parts that were needed eventually
turned up.
I'm the same way. If it isn't potted in epoxy, I can repair it. I've
repaired a few small bits of stuff that were potted, but larger stuff is
somewhat difficult to unpot w/o damage. I've heard there are some solvents
that will soften the compound to allow it to be removed, do you know what
those might be called?
One bit of equipment I wish I had kept now was an original coda-phone made
by Bell. I scrapped it back in the early 90s, but kept most of its
internals. I think it had like 12-14 small relays and a few very old pc
boards in it. The wiring harnesses were tied up with waxed string, which
would have been typical for the time period that the thing was made in. I
think it was made in the early to mid 1970s, so if the folks that visit
lots of scrap shops could keep a look out for one of these, I'd appreciate
it. Size wise, it is about 2/3 of the size of a modern VCR, but weighs
about 25-30lb. It had a permanently wired handset (like those used on the
old Bell standard phones), which was gray in color and had a button built
into the handle. Maybe one of these days I'll find another one of those
units to put on the shelf :/
I'm just getting started with tube (valve) gear, but I really enjoy
troubleshooting the early transistor based amps.
-Toth
I'm a
hardware hacker by nature, and software hacker by necessity. I don't
I have the 'Ciarcia Gene' ("my favourite programming language is
solder") as well. I write code only to get the hardware to work :-) have any
inhibitions to working on a system down to its board or BIOS/boot
code level. I tend to repair boards and other hardware when possible
instead of replacing the whole unit.
Good for you! I never replace a board unless I am absolutely sure
what's wrong with the old one. The only reason I'd replace tha board
then would be if the component was totally unobtainable. I also collect
vintage audio equipment, and don't mind the repair and
restoration of that kind of gear.
I'll do anything electronic or mechanical :-). Audio, Video, Radio,
Computing, Cameras, Clocks, you name it, I'll take a screwdriver to it
:-) My favorite
audio gear from the 60s to early 80s was typically made by
Pioneer, Sansui, or Sony.
I prefer old (valved) Leak or Quad...
11:11 a.m.
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3:03 p.m.
On Fri, 8 Feb 2002, Tony Duell wrote:
Sounds like I need to learn more about DEC's older systems.
If I actually have the part, I'd repair a board, but if I have to go out
and pay more for the part than a whole board, I might not.
I have a few myself, but the number has shrunk in the last few years as I
started repairing more of them. The next big investment I need to make is
in a hot-air soldering station. It would allow me to repair a number of
boards and drives I currently have packed away.
Especially when you have other functioning units that are in use in
equipment.
I don't yet have that equipment either, but it is certainly on my list ;)
I hope eventually to also have the equipment and space to repair older
hard drives.
I guess I'll have to do some research and find a suitable
victim^Wsubject^Wboard that I've stored away somewhere to test on.
-Toth
Sounds like
the same reasons I write code. My favorite stuff to work on
are old boards full of nothing but logic gates and such. Modern gear
Mine too... Which is why I like the PDP11/45, PERQ, PDP8/e, etc. Or, the part
is so expensive, that replacement would cost more than the
Sometimes even then I just replace the part.... It may depend on what
I have in stock -- if I have the part then I'll use it to get running
again as soon as I can. whole board.
In those cases, I pack the board away in a box with a note to
myself as to what is wrong with it and why I didn't repair it. I've later
Yes, I've got a number of boards like that. Mostly HP
calculator-related (these machines have a lot of custom chips for a
good reason). Things like an HP45 logic board with 'bad A&R' written
on it (A&R == Arithmetic and Registers == the data path of the CPU) repaired some
boards like this, when the parts that were needed eventually
turned up.
Alternatively they can be useful as a source of other custom parts... I'm the
same way. If it isn't potted in epoxy, I can repair it. I've
Hmm, I'm not that good yet... I don't have the equipment to rebuild
CRTs at home, for example :-) repaired a few
small bits of stuff that were potted, but larger stuff is
somewhat difficult to unpot w/o damage. I've heard there are some solvents
that will soften the compound to allow it to be removed, do you know what
those might be called?
I am told glacial ethanoic (acetic) acid is one thing that's sometimes
used. I've not tried it though.
12:23 p.m.
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6 Feb
6 Feb
1:44 a.m.
On Tue, Feb 05, 2002 at 02:54:50PM +0000, Sellam Ismail wrote:
Ok, now's your chance to discuss your specialty
and get the attention of
other folks who have stuff that you may want.
My specialtys?
Everything form DEC. (main focus)
Everything that is at least in principle able to run Unix.
(Excluding PeeCees, exclusion of the exclusion IBM MCA stuff.
Special interrest in the "classic" Unix vendors Sun, SGI, HP, IBM)
"Big Iron" I don't own somthing of this category, but I will catch it,
if it comes across my way.
Old calculators, especially from HP.
I don't like / collect PeeCee, 8 bit, game console, ... stuff. But
I rescue it if it is on the way to the scrap yard to trade it with
other collectors.
Machine most wanted: VAX 6660
(My first non PeeCee machine was a VAX. This caused permanent damage. ;-) )
Because this is the smallest "real" VAX, the smallest machine
I would call a mini and the space and electricity needs are in
a range, that it is affordable to run the machine 24/7.
In fact I want a VAX 9000 and a PDP 10 / DECSYSTEM [12]0.
But I will not think about the cost of electricity... :-(
--
tsch??,
Jochen
Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/
6:10 a.m.
On Tue, 5 Feb 2002, Sellam Ismail wrote:
Ok, now's your chance to discuss your specialty
and get the attention of
other folks who have stuff that you may want.
Machines that run UNIX and aren't PCs;
Machines made by DEC before around 1985; or,
Machines that have blinkenlights.
Certain other machines have also struck my fancy, for reasons ranging from
how they look (Crays!) to having interesting architectures (Lisp
Machines!).
--
Jeffrey S. Sharp
jss(a)subatomix.com
5:14 p.m.
Sellam Ismail wrote:
Ok, now's your chance to discuss your specialty
and get the attention of
other folks who have stuff that you may want.
I disqualify myself from this discussion because technically a "Specialty
of Everything" is not really specialization.
I want everything and anything ;)
DEC stuff, specialty: big iron, VAX 11/78x with nice vertical
9-track tapes, VAX 6000 400 and 600, all networked through CI
and HSC90. uVAX II just because, smaller than that is boring.
Don't want VAX stations. PDP 8, PDP-11 a little. That's it.
No big extension planned any more, focus is on quality running
highlights. Of course the C64 which was what I started with.
I want to get all the bells and whistles for those machines get
them networked and hooked up in every possible way. A frame buffer
to use the VAX 11/780 as a workstation. Fill every option slot
with stuff. I love RA90 disks, use them everywhere. Would want
one RM03 drive with a good size platter drum.
Operating system: UNIX only. 4.3 BSD on the VAX 11 and uVAX,
Ultrix on the 6000, ultimately NetBSD on the 6000. MiniUNIX on
the PDP 11/03. the C64 can also run LUnix. I may write my own
OS for the PDP8/A that would be somehow LISP based (and
bootstrapped through the console panel. Ah, I wouldn't mind a
LISP machine. But that's it.
-Gunther
--
Gunther Schadow, M.D., Ph.D. gschadow(a)regenstrief.org
Medical Information Scientist Regenstrief Institute for Health Care
Adjunct Assistant Professor Indiana University School of Medicine
tel:1(317)630-7960 http://aurora.regenstrief.org
8 Feb
8 Feb
6:28 p.m.
I guess I would have to say "Commodore".
1982 VIC-20 (HES MON assembler)
1985 C=64&Drv
1986 C=128&Drv
1988 A500 (KS 1.2 ROM's)
1988 SX-64
1988 MAC (original 512K)
1989 A2000 (with A-MAX, 2088 bridge, GVP 030, HD)
1991 A1000
1991 A1000
1992 386note (currently running SCO 3.2.4)
1992 CDTV
1992 A4000
1993 486DX25
1994 Apple //GS&Prn
1994 386DX33 (clone assembled by me)
1995 Apple //
1995 A3000 (040, Hydra Ether)
1996 P5/120 (clone assembled by me, running Plan 9)
1997 586note (Compaq Armada P133)
1998 P6/233 (clone assembled by me)
1998 HP9000 712/60 (was HP/UX 9.05, now HP/UX 10)
1998 486/33 (running Slackware 2.0)
1998 SPARC10 (Solaris 2.6)
1999 TadPole SparcBook (SunOS 4.0.3)
1999 Pilot
1999 Indigo R3000 (IRIX 5.3)
1999 Pwr MAC (Mk Linux 5.2)
2000 PPRO-200 (dual capable, just need a VRM for the DTK mb)
2001 SPARC2 (SunOS 4.1.4)
2001 P2/266 (SuSE 7.3, XP, ME)
2001 DEC Alpha AS200/233 (VMS 7.1)
2001 Palm Pilot 3XE
2001 Sun Netra X1 (Solaris 7)
I currently still use my A3000/040 daily and my "work"
machine is a Sparc 10 at home.
I am futilely trying to understand / use / get license paks for
VMS 7.1 (what a pain!)
I would like to get my hands on an RS/6000 7013 or 7043,
most E-bay boxes do not come with the AIX media.
Tad
Sellam Ismail wrote:
Ok, now's your chance to discuss your specialty
and get the attention of
other folks who have stuff that you may want.
I disqualify myself from this discussion because technically a "Specialty
of Everything" is not really specialization.
I want everything and anything ;)
Actually, I do like to specialize where few fear to venture. I have
massive amounts of computer books, magazines, documentation and manuals.
I do not discriminate. If it's a book and it has just about anything at
all to do with computing, it goes into my library. Again, there is a
purpose to this seemingly unquenchable psychosis.
My collection of Y2K preparedness books is probably unrivaled (at this
point probably 30+ volumes and counting).
Somebody's got to do it.
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org
* Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com *
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123 comments
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participants (54)
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ajwotherspoon＠shaw.ca -
allain＠panix.com -
ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk -
at258＠osfn.org -
aw288＠osfn.org -
bkr＠WildHareComputers.com -
bshannon＠tiac.net -
cbajpai＠mediaone.net -
chris＠mainecoon.com -
cmurillo＠emtelsa.multi.net.co -
curt＠atari-history.com -
dan＠ekoan.com -
dittman＠dittman.net -
dmabry＠mich.com -
doc＠mdrconsult.com -
dogas＠bellsouth.net -
donm＠cts.com -
edick＠idcomm.com -
erd_6502＠yahoo.com -
ernestls＠attbi.com -
fauradon＠frontiernet.net -
foo＠siconic.com -
ghldbrd＠ccp.com -
gunther＠aurora.regenstrief.org -
Hans.Franke＠mch20.sbs.de -
healyzh＠aracnet.com -
Huw.Davies＠kerberos.davies.net.au -
jcwren＠jcwren.com -
jkunz＠unixag-kl.fh-kl.de -
jpero＠sympatico.ca -
jrice＠texoma.net -
jss＠subatomix.com -
lgwalker＠mts.net -
marvin＠rain.org -
meltlet＠fastmail.fm -
owad＠applefritter.com -
pcw＠mesanet.com -
philip＠awale.qc.ca -
rdd＠rddavis.org -
red＠bears.org -
rhblakeman＠kih.net -
rhudson＠cnonline.net -
rickb＠bensene.com -
rigdonj＠cfl.rr.com -
sieler＠allegro.com -
sloboyko＠yahoo.com -
spectre＠stockholm.ptloma.edu -
tbilby＠rave.com -
tothwolf＠concentric.net -
univac2＠earthlink.net -
vance＠ikickass.org -
wh.sudbrink＠verizon.net -
wilby98＠yahoo.com -
wmsmith＠earthlink.net