2 Nov
2015
2 Nov
'15
7:03 p.m.
I recently won an IBM z890 via auction for $237.
It was a very interesting adventure to retrieve this machine since it
weighs 1500LBS on a good day, and well myself only clocking in around
115LBS I needed the help of a few friends and family to get this thing
into the basement...
I stripped the machine down to its bare rack to get it into the basement
safely, although the rack itself I calculated to weigh about 800LBS itself.
I'd say the most difficult part was the excavation we had to do to get
it to fit under the deck! It was a REALLY tight fit as you will see in
the photos.
It took two trips to get it all, one with the truck alone to remove most
of the innards and another with the trailer to grab the rest out of the
rack and the rack itself.
Its already in the basement and most of the way back together, just
running the wiring internally for it then I need to wire up a 240v 30a
outlet once we get the new breaker box in since there is no more room in
the current box.
Photos of the whole adventure:
http://imgur.com/a/5uWit
I plan to pickup an SAN based SCSI box to install Linux and play with.
As far as I know I can't install any IBM OS' this way, I would need
FICON or ESCON type storage to boot anything like z/OS. (Read EXPENSIVE!)
As far as I know I can grab one of these boxes:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/201459314771
And hook this up to a FICON interface and it will act as storage via FCP
as a SAN. This 'should' allow me to use SCSI devices like an array of
hard drives to install Linux.
I'm obviously not very familiar with the z-series but I have been trying
to read up and learn about everything.
Let me know if my thought process and info are correct, also any
suggestions or tips would be greatly appreciated!
-Connor K
2 Nov
2 Nov
7:15 p.m.
On Tue, Nov 3, 2015 at 4:03 PM, Connor Krukosky
<connork at connorsdomain.com> wrote:
I recently won an IBM z890 via auction for $237.
Congratulations! Mainframes are fun!
It was a very interesting adventure to retrieve this
machine since it weighs
1500LBS on a good day, and well myself only clocking in around 115LBS I
needed the help of a few friends and family to get this thing into the
basement...
So I see. I thought I was mad. Shoehorning that thing under that deck
is about the silliest bit of computer preservation nonsense I've ever
seen! Well done! Exactly the kind of thing I might do :-)
I plan to pickup an SAN based SCSI box to install
Linux and play with. As
far as I know I can't install any IBM OS' this way, I would need FICON or
ESCON type storage to boot
One does not boot a mainframe; one IPLs it. :)
anything like z/OS. (Read EXPENSIVE!)
I can't advise you as to the other boxes. From my Linux experience on
mainframe I can say it doesn't seem to boo... IPL any differently to
any other mainframe OS. If you can define the device to the mainframe
and issue an IPL command, you *should* be able to IPL anything I
think?
http://www.corestore.org
'No greater love hath a man than he lay down his life for his brother.
Not for millions, not for glory, not for fame.
For one person, in the dark, where no one will ever know or see.'
7:53 p.m.
On 11/2/2015 10:34 PM, Peter Cetinski wrote:
So you bought a new electric furnace for the house,
huh? :)
Quite literally yes I did, because the basement and first floor does not
have HVAC yet!
Only the second and third floors do!
On 11/2/2015 10:15 PM, Mike Ross wrote:
Congratulations! Mainframes are fun!
Thanks and
yes they are :)
One does not boot a mainframe; one IPLs it. :)
I totally knew this but somehow forgot such terminology while writing
this email. *facepalm*
I can't advise you as to the other boxes. From my
Linux experience on
mainframe I can say it doesn't seem to boo... IPL any differently to
any other mainframe OS. If you can define the device to the mainframe
and issue an IPL command, you *should* be able to IPL anything I think?
Hm ok, I
will have to do some more research on the storage front then.
What I have been told is that you can IPL Linux over a SAN but not any
IBM OS.
But if IPLing shouldn't be any different then maybe you can't IPL from a
SAN at all which I wouldn't be surprised at.
-Connor K
8:48 p.m.
Congratulations! Mainframes are fun!
Thanks and yes they are :)
One does not boot a mainframe; one IPLs it. :)
I totally knew this but somehow forgot such terminology while writing
> I can't advise you as to the other boxes. From my Linux experience on
mainframe I can say it doesn't seem to boo... IPL any differently to any
other mainframe OS. If you can define the device to the mainframe and issue
an IPL command, you *should* be able to IPL anything I think?
Hm ok, I will have to do some more research on the storage front then.
What I have been told is that you can IPL Linux over a SAN but not any
IBM OS.
But if IPLing shouldn't be any different then
maybe you can't IPL from a
SAN at all which I wouldn't be surprised at.
-Connor K
Check the OS defaults of the SAN networking software layer. My instinct is
AIX might play a part here.
9:22 p.m.
I am so jealous.
On Mon, Nov 2, 2015 at 11:48 PM, william degnan <billdegnan at gmail.com>
wrote:
this email.
*facepalm*
--
Gary G. Sparkes Jr.
KB3HAG
Congratulations! Mainframes are fun!
Thanks and yes they are :)
One does not boot a mainframe; one IPLs it. :)
I totally knew this but somehow forgot such terminology while writing
> I can't advise you as to the other boxes. From my Linux experience on
mainframe I can say it doesn't seem to boo... IPL any differently to any
other mainframe OS. If you can define the device to the mainframe and issue
an IPL command, you *should* be able to IPL anything I think?
Hm ok, I will have to do some more research on the storage front then.
What I have been told is that you can IPL Linux over a SAN but not any
IBM OS.
But if IPLing shouldn't be any different then
maybe you can't IPL from a
SAN at all which I wouldn't be surprised at.
-Connor K
Check the OS defaults of the SAN networking software layer. My instinct is
AIX might play a part here.
3 Nov
3 Nov
7:54 a.m.
On 11/2/2015 11:22 PM, Gary Sparkes wrote:
I am so jealous.
On Mon, Nov 2, 2015 at 11:48 PM, william degnan <billdegnan at gmail.com>
wrote:
>>>
>>> Congratulations! Mainframes are fun!
>>
>> Thanks and yes they are :)
>>
My XT/370 card set and P/390 card are even jealous. ;)
12:14 p.m.
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of william
degnan
Sent: 03 November 2015 04:49
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Subject: Re: IBM z890
this email.
*facepalm*
Not sure. I think LINUX will run with Network Attached Storage ....
Congratulations! Mainframes are fun!
Thanks and yes they are :)
One does not boot a mainframe; one IPLs it. :)
I totally knew this but somehow forgot such terminology while writing
> I can't advise you as to the other boxes. From my Linux experience on
mainframe I can say it doesn't seem to boo... IPL any differently to any other
mainframe OS. If you can define the device to the mainframe and issue an
IPL command, you *should* be able to IPL anything I think?
Hm ok, I will have to do some more research on the storage front then.
What I have been told is that you can IPL Linux over a SAN but not any
IBM OS.
But if IPLing shouldn't be any different then
maybe you can't IPL from
a
SAN at all which I wouldn't be surprised at.
-Connor K
Check the OS defaults of the SAN networking software layer. My instinct is
AIX might play a part here.
12:31 p.m.
On 11/3/2015 3:14 PM, Dave Wade wrote:
I think all IBM
I seem to remember that IBM OS's need a SAN that
will talk ESCON or FICON and will resent emulated 3390 disks.
http://www.redbooks.ibm.com/redbooks/pdfs/sg246497.pdf
might help
Dave
Thanks for the info Dave, I have learned what can and can not be
installed over FCP (aka SAN) via this page:
http://www-03.ibm.com/systems/z/hardware/connectivity/products/fe8.html
# CHPID type FC ? FICON, zHPF, and channel-to-channel (CTC) traffic for
the z/OS, z/VM, z/VSE, z/TPF, and Linux on z Systems environments
# CHPID type FCP - Fibre Channel Protocol (FCP) for attachment to SCSI
devices for the z/VM, z/VSE, and Linux on z Systems environments
So now we know what can and can't IPL over which interfaces, now its a
matter of finding which devices support what.
I think the IBM TotalStorage series of disk arrays support FC, at-least
DS4000 and up, DS3000 may but I am not sure.
I have found some DS4000 chassis up which are somewhat cheap but then I
need to buy caddies and drives and that will add up...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/IBM-1740-710-DS4000-EXP710-Total-Storage-Expansion-…
I have found complete DS4000's for around 200 dollars.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/IBM-DS4000-EXP100-SAN-Expansion-Unit-1724-1xp-w-14x…
But still I am not 100% sure they support FC, and are not just SAN's
over FCP which I think they also support.
To say the least I need to find someone very familiar with the newer IBM
hardware because I don't want to pay as much as I did for the machine to
get storage that 'might' work.
-Connor K
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of william
degnan
Sent: 03 November 2015 04:49
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Subject: Re: IBM z890
this
email. *facepalm*
Not sure. I think LINUX
will run with Network Attached Storage ....
Congratulations! Mainframes are fun!
Thanks and yes they are :)
One does not boot a mainframe; one IPLs it. :)
I totally knew this but somehow forgot such terminology while writing > I can't advise you as to the other boxes.
From my Linux experience on
mainframe I can say it doesn't seem to boo... IPL
any differently to any other
mainframe OS. If you can define the device to the mainframe and issue an
IPL command, you *should* be able to IPL anything I think? Hm ok, I
will have to do some more research on the storage front then.
What I have been told is that you can IPL Linux over a SAN but not any
IBM OS.
But if IPLing shouldn't be any different then
maybe you can't IPL from
a
SAN at all which I wouldn't be surprised at. -Connor K
Check the OS defaults of the SAN networking software layer. My instinct is
AIX might play a part here. 
1:06 p.m.
So now we know what can and can't IPL over which
interfaces, now its a
matter of finding which devices support what.
I think the IBM TotalStorage series of disk arrays support FC, at-least
DS4000 and up, DS3000 may but I am not sure.
I have found some DS4000 chassis up which are somewhat cheap but then I
need to buy caddies and drives and that will add up...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/IBM-1740-710-DS4000-EXP710-Total-Storage-Expansion-…
I have found complete DS4000's for around 200 dollars.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/IBM-DS4000-EXP100-SAN-Expansion-Unit-1724-1xp-w-14x…
But still I am not 100% sure they support FC, and are not just SAN's
over FCP which I think they also support.
To say the least I need to find someone very familiar with the newer IBM
hardware because I don't want to pay as much as I did for the machine to
get storage that 'might' work.
I did read the last sentence three times, I think. Weren't these machines worth
over 200k USD ten years ago? :)
Cheers,
Pierre
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Pierre's collection of classic computers moved to: http://www.digitalheritage.de
2 Nov
2 Nov
9:35 p.m.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Connor Krukosky" <connork at connorsdomain.com>
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at
classiccmp.org>
Sent: Monday, November 02, 2015 10:53 PM
Subject: Re: IBM z890
On 11/2/2015 10:34 PM, Peter Cetinski wrote:
Now THAT's what I call good planning! ;-)
So you bought a new electric furnace for the
house, huh? :)
Quite literally yes I did, because the basement and first floor
does not
have HVAC yet!
Only the second and third floors do!
-Connor K
3 Nov
3 Nov
7:44 a.m.
On 11/2/2015 9:15 PM, Mike Ross wrote:
On Tue, Nov 3, 2015 at 4:03 PM, Connor Krukosky
<connork at connorsdomain.com> wrote:
I have personally seen that kind of operation before. Back in the day a
PDP-11/20 was delivered to a group doing a legal records project here in
Madison WI into a house basement using similar techniques, though I
don't think any lifting equipment was required - just tilting some racks
to pretty acute angles to get them under the door header.
And then there was the "Connecticut" 1401...
JRJ
I recently won an IBM z890 via auction for $237.
Congratulations! Mainframes are fun!
It was a very interesting adventure to retrieve
this machine since it weighs
1500LBS on a good day, and well myself only clocking in around 115LBS I
needed the help of a few friends and family to get this thing into the
basement...
So I see. I thought I was mad. Shoehorning that thing under that deck
is about the silliest bit of computer preservation nonsense I've ever
seen! Well done! Exactly the kind of thing I might do :-)
2 Nov
2 Nov
7:23 p.m.
Excellent! Another person with an IBM Mainframe!
TTFN - Guy
TTFN - Guy
On 11/2/15 7:03 PM, Connor Krukosky wrote:
I recently won an IBM z890 via auction for $237.
It was a very interesting adventure to retrieve this machine since it
weighs 1500LBS on a good day, and well myself only clocking in around
115LBS I needed the help of a few friends and family to get this thing
into the basement...
I stripped the machine down to its bare rack to get it into the
basement safely, although the rack itself I calculated to weigh about
800LBS itself.
I'd say the most difficult part was the excavation we had to do to get
it to fit under the deck! It was a REALLY tight fit as you will see in
the photos.
It took two trips to get it all, one with the truck alone to remove
most of the innards and another with the trailer to grab the rest out
of the rack and the rack itself.
Its already in the basement and most of the way back together, just
running the wiring internally for it then I need to wire up a 240v 30a
outlet once we get the new breaker box in since there is no more room
in the current box.
Photos of the whole adventure:
http://imgur.com/a/5uWit
I plan to pickup an SAN based SCSI box to install Linux and play with.
As far as I know I can't install any IBM OS' this way, I would need
FICON or ESCON type storage to boot anything like z/OS. (Read EXPENSIVE!)
As far as I know I can grab one of these boxes:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/201459314771
And hook this up to a FICON interface and it will act as storage via
FCP as a SAN. This 'should' allow me to use SCSI devices like an array
of hard drives to install Linux.
I'm obviously not very familiar with the z-series but I have been
trying to read up and learn about everything.
Let me know if my thought process and info are correct, also any
suggestions or tips would be greatly appreciated!
-Connor K
7:34 p.m.
On Nov 2, 2015, at 10:03 PM, Connor Krukosky
<connork at connorsdomain.com> wrote:
I recently won an IBM z890 via auction for $237.
Its already in the basement and most of the way back together, just running the wiring
internally for it then I need to wire up a 240v 30a outlet once we get the new breaker box
in since there is no more room in the current box.
-Connor K
So you bought a new electric furnace for the house, huh? :)
You mainframe collectors are hard-core.
3337
days inactive
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billdegnan＠gmail.com -
connork＠connorsdomain.com -
cube1＠charter.net -
dave.g4ugm＠gmail.com -
ggs＠shiresoft.com -
mhs.stein＠gmail.com -
mokuba＠gmail.com -
p.gebhardt＠ymail.com -
pete＠pski.net -
tmfdmike＠gmail.com