3 Jul
2010
3 Jul
'10
2:18 p.m.
I'd just check eBay for an old HP Deskjet for under $35 or if Letter Quality isn't
important, there are lots of old Dot Matrix printers there too.
I keep an old IBM Graphics Printer (Epson MX-80), HP Deskjet 500 and an HP LJ IIIP around
for printing off classic computers like my TRS-80, Atari, Amiga and other systems.
Al
4 Jul
4 Jul
11:30 a.m.
I keep an old IBM Graphics Printer (Epson MX-80), HP
Deskjet 500 and
an HP LJ IIIP around for printing off classic computers like my TRS-80,
Atari, Amiga and other systems.
As I've mentioned before, I consider many of the peripherals to be a part
of 'classic computing' and have no problem finding interest in restoring,
say, an HP7245A thermal printer/plotter and then using it on one of my
classic HP machines (although what I do when I run out of the special
sprocketed thermal paper is another matter...).
For the same reason I recently rebuilt an HP2631B (large, text-only
dot-matrix printer with an HPIB interface) which will get used on one of
my HP9000s (and elserhere). And of course I have a few other HPIB
printers, HPIL printers, the CX-VDO laser printer on the PERQ, and the
like.
But I probably wouldn't want to print out longlistings on any of those.
Consumables for them are getting hard to find (and expensive). Normally I
trasnfer the data to this PC and send it to my (classic) laser printer.
For machines which can be convinced to 'print' to a serial port, it's
firly easy to capture the data nad upload it (As I've mentioned before,
the HP95LX palmtop is handly for this..). For machines that have a
parallel interface (not even necessarily Cantronics), it's not hard to
make an RS232 output interface using TTL logic, a dumb UART, or a
microcotnroller (depending on your preference), that looks like a
Centroincs (or whatever) printer to the classic machine and simply
squirts the data out to the HP95...
I wonder (and it's of no use to me at the momnet)... How hard would it be
to make a device with a Centronicts-like _input_ on one side and a USB
port on the other, adn some data buffering memory. The idea is that you
link it between your BBC micro, Amiga, TRS-80, etc (which thinks it's a
printer) and a PC running suitable software. The classic machine 'prints'
to this device. the software on the PC takes the data and stores it in a
file on the PC for later formatting and printing.
My guess is the hardware is little more than a microcontroller, amybe
with a bit of logic to ensure the handshake timing is correct (a D-type
and a couple of gates). The software is another matter, though...
-tony
5 Jul
5 Jul
1:08 p.m.
On 07/04/2010 08:30 PM, Tony Duell wrote:
Possibly :-). Although don't you need it for your 7245?
If you don;t ahvea 7245, try to get one. It's a curious machine,
typically 'HP' of the period. Basically, it's a 12 element dot matrix
thermal printer with the elements arranged in a diagonal-ish line on the
printhead, along with an extra eleemnet in the middle. And a pair of stepper
motors, one to move the head, the other to roll the paper back and forth.
The HPIB version (whcih is what I have) responds to 2 HPIB addresses.
Data sent to one is taken as text to print, using the 12 elements. The
reason they're diagonally-placed is so that it can print vertically just
as easily as horizontally. Data sent to the other address is taken as
HPGL commands and plotted, using the extra eleement (which is controlled
so that you get a constant print intensity, no matter what the plotting
speed is). And yse it can plot text too...
Electroinmcally there's an HP custom microprocessor ('nanocontroller'),
ROMs, RAM (2114s...), and quite a bit of TTL for the HPIB interface and
motor controller (which is quite interesting in itself). And the PSU is
a strange 2-stage SMPUS thing.
As I said, a machgine to track down if you don't have one.
One word of warning. If you take the mechanism totally apart, you need a
couple of (easy to make) special tools) to put it back together again.
And there are a couple of tricks that make life a lot easier. Ask me if
you want to do it.
-tony
classic HP machines (although what I do when I run out of the special
sprocketed thermal paper is another matter...).
Ask me for my unused stock ? 
4 Jul
4 Jul
1:47 p.m.
On Sun, Jul 4, 2010 at 11:30 AM, Tony Duell <ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk> wrote:
I wonder (and it's of no use to me at the momnet)... How hard would it be
to make a device with a Centronicts-like _input_ on one side and a USB
port on the other, adn some data buffering memory. The idea is that you
link it between your BBC micro, Amiga, TRS-80, etc (which thinks it's a
printer) and a PC running suitable software. The classic machine 'prints'
to this device. the software on the PC takes the data and stores it in a
file on the PC for later formatting and printing.
My guess is the hardware is little more than a microcontroller, amybe
with a bit of logic to ensure the handshake timing is correct (a D-type
and a couple of gates). The software is another matter, though...
It might not take too much to build up something to do that using an
FTDI FT245R - USB FIFO IC.
http://www.ftdichip.com/Products/FT245R.htm
It has a write strobe input and a FIFO full output, which might need
some simple logic to handshake with a standard LPT output. But you
wouldn't have to write any firmware for the USB microcontroller.
2:16 p.m.
I wonder (and it's of no use to me at the
momnet)... How hard would it be
to make a device with a Centronicts-like _input_ on one side and a USB
port on the other, adn some data buffering memory. The idea is that you
link it between your BBC micro, Amiga, TRS-80, etc (which thinks it's a
printer) and a PC running suitable software. The classic machine 'prints'
to this device. the software on the PC takes the data and stores it in a
file on the PC for later formatting and printing.
Simple.
20 years ago, I set up an IBM AT to emulate a printer. I based it on
Bruce Eckel's Microcornucopia parrallel port interfacing articles. I used
it for file transfer from machines that had Centronics-like printing
capability, but inadequate communications capability. I found out at
Comdex that VERY FEW people had use for it, nor even willingness to
understand what it was.
--
Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin at xenosoft.com
5 p.m.
On 4 July 2010 22:16, Fred Cisin <cisin at xenosoft.com> wrote:
I did that, around that time, too.
I had to get all the files off an ancient dedicated wordprocessor -
possibly a QUME or a Wang box, I forget now. It had a weird floppy
format - I don't remember the details, maybe 8", maybe hard-sectored?
No way to read 'em on a 1980s PC, anyway.
Its printer was a serial daisywheel of no known type or compatibility.
So I wrote a QuickBASIC app for a PC to receive data from the serial
port and dump it in files. I wired up a nullmodem cable, loaded each
file on the WP, then printed it. The PC asked for a filename, captured
it, stripped out all the non-ASCII, single carriage returns and things
like that, then saved it to disk. As it was a daisywheel, there was no
formatting information worth noting; it did a backspace-and-overprint
for bold, a code for underline which I think I threw away, and that
was about it.
But then I found a problem: it did bidirectional printing. In
*software*. For every other line, it printed
[character][backspace][backspace][character][backspace][backspace]...
etc.
So I had to recode my little program to reverse every other line,
which meant it got a fair bit more complex, because it now had to
count lines on the page and only do alternate ones... But not all
pages started printing on the first line, some had blank lines at the
top...
That was an interesting day. Probably 21y ago or so and I've not
thought of it in a decade or more.
--
Liam Proven ? Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/liamproven
Email: lproven at cix.co.uk ? GMail/GoogleTalk/Orkut: lproven at gmail.com
Tel: +44 20-8685-0498 ? Cell: +44 7939-087884 ? Fax: + 44 870-9151419
AOL/AIM/iChat/Yahoo/Skype: liamproven ? LiveJournal/Twitter: lproven
MSN: lproven at hotmail.com ? ICQ: 73187508
I wonder (and
it's of no use to me at the momnet)... How hard would it be
to make a device with a Centronicts-like _input_ on one side and a USB
port on the other, adn some data buffering memory. The idea is that you
link it between your BBC micro, Amiga, TRS-80, etc (which thinks it's a
printer) and a PC running suitable software. The classic machine 'prints'
to this device. the software on the PC takes the data and stores it in a
file on the PC for later formatting and printing.
Simple.
20 years ago, I set up an IBM AT to emulate a printer. ?I based it on
Bruce Eckel's Microcornucopia parrallel port interfacing articles. ?I used
it for file transfer from machines that had Centronics-like printing
capability, but inadequate communications capability. ?I found out at
Comdex that VERY FEW people had use for it, nor even willingness to
understand what it was.
5:24 p.m.
> 20 years ago, I set up an IBM AT to emulate a
printer. ?I based it on
> Bruce Eckel's Microcornucopia parrallel port interfacing articles. ?I used
On Mon, 5 Jul 2010, Liam Proven wrote:
I did that, around that time, too.
I had to get all the files off an ancient dedicated wordprocessor -
possibly a QUME or a Wang box, I forget now. It had a weird floppy
format - I don't remember the details, maybe 8", maybe hard-sectored?
No way to read 'em on a 1980s PC, anyway.
Its printer was a serial daisywheel of no known type or compatibility.
So I wrote a QuickBASIC app for a PC to receive data from the serial
port and dump it in files. I wired up a nullmodem cable, loaded each
The one that I was dealing with was "Centronics" parallel, but Eckels had
described in detail how to modify one of the common parallel ports for
bi-directional, and I wired up a cable with the opposite gender blue
ribbon connector, so that the alien machine thought that it was talking to
a printer.
In retrospect, a parallel to serial adapter would probably have been
easier.
file on the WP, then printed it. The PC asked for a
filename, captured
it, stripped out all the non-ASCII, single carriage returns and things
like that, then saved it to disk. As it was a daisywheel, there was no
formatting information worth noting; it did a backspace-and-overprint
for bold, a code for underline which I think I threw away, and that
was about it.
Most (not all) of the early daisy wheels did underline with a backspace
and an underline character.
But then I found a problem: it did bidirectional
printing. In
*software*. For every other line, it printed
[character][backspace][backspace][character][backspace][backspace]...
etc.
Howzbout: capture line to buffer, (or read from the file), and look for
the double [backspace]s ?
What was even more fun was transferring files TO a machine with no real
connectivity (a Merganthaler from hell). Box of solenoids on the
keyboard!
--
Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin at xenosoft.com
5:31 p.m.
On 5 July 2010 01:24, Fred Cisin <cisin at xenosoft.com> wrote:
Yes indeed - I had an Amstrad PCW9512 at the time, which did this -
but I was only trying to recover raw text. I'd have had to find how to
write some kind of formatting info into the file to preserve bold &
underline, and that was just too much work. I don't think that back
then I had any DOS app smart enough to do a global search-and-replace
that would turn text codes into formatting, and while my work box (a
6MHz IBM PC-AT with 512KB) did dual-boot into SCO Xenix, which
doubtless could have done this, my Unix-fu is very weak.
Do you know, I might have done that. It was a very long time ago, I
don't remember the details.
> 20 years
ago, I set up an IBM AT to emulate a printer. ?I based it on
> Bruce Eckel's Microcornucopia parrallel port interfacing articles. ?I used
On Mon, 5 Jul 2010, Liam Proven wrote:
I did that, around that time, too.
I had to get all the files off an ancient dedicated wordprocessor -
possibly a QUME or a Wang box, I forget now. It had a weird floppy
format - I don't remember the details, maybe 8", maybe hard-sectored?
No way to read 'em on a 1980s PC, anyway.
Its printer was a serial daisywheel of no known type or compatibility.
So I wrote a QuickBASIC app for a PC to receive data from the serial
port and dump it in files. I wired up a nullmodem cable, loaded each
The one that I was dealing with was "Centronics" parallel, but Eckels had
described in detail how to modify one of the common parallel ports for
bi-directional, and I wired up a cable with the opposite gender blue
ribbon connector, so that the alien machine thought that it was talking to
a printer.
In retrospect, a parallel to serial adapter would probably have been
easier.
file on the WP, then printed it. The PC asked for
a filename, captured
it, stripped out all the non-ASCII, single carriage returns and things
like that, then saved it to disk. As it was a daisywheel, there was no
formatting information worth noting; it did a backspace-and-overprint
for bold, a code for underline which I think I threw away, and that
was about it.
Most (not all) of the early daisy wheels did underline with a backspace
and an underline character. But then I
found a problem: it did bidirectional printing. In
*software*. For every other line, it printed
[character][backspace][backspace][character][backspace][backspace]...
etc.
Howzbout: capture line to buffer, (or read from the file), and look for
the double [backspace]s ?? What was even more fun was transferring files TO a
machine with no real
connectivity (a Merganthaler from hell). ?Box of solenoids on the
keyboard!
O_o
I think I'd have sent such a client to a professional media-conversion
company, myself!
--
Liam Proven ? Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/liamproven
Email: lproven at cix.co.uk ? GMail/GoogleTalk/Orkut: lproven at gmail.com
Tel: +44 20-8685-0498 ? Cell: +44 7939-087884 ? Fax: + 44 870-9151419
AOL/AIM/iChat/Yahoo/Skype: liamproven ? LiveJournal/Twitter: lproven
MSN: lproven at hotmail.com ? ICQ: 73187508
5 Jul
5 Jul
1:22 p.m.
What was even more fun was transferring files TO a
machine with no real
connectivity (a Merganthaler from hell). Box of solenoids on the
keyboard!
:-)
If the keyboard is a seperate unit and internally encoded (that is, it
sends character codes or keycodes on a parallel or serial interface) it
may not be too hard to make another machine pretend to be that keyboard.
If it's just a matrix of switches, it mau be a little harder if you need
to be able to press several keys at once.
-tony
2:07 p.m.
On 05/07/2010 21:22, Tony Duell wrote:
Microcontroler and a crosspoint switch IC such as the MT8816, is what I
used to solve this problem when interfacing a PS/2 keyboard to a retro
machine (Acorn Atom , BBC etc). Then it's just a matter of the software
on the microcontroler, mind you do have to keep the character rate down
so that the target system can keep up, after all most people can't type
at 2K/s :) :) :)
Cheers.
Phill.
What was even
more fun was transferring files TO a machine with no real
connectivity (a Merganthaler from hell). Box of solenoids on the
keyboard!
If the keyboard is a seperate unit and internally encoded (that is, it
sends character codes or keycodes on a parallel or serial interface) it
may not be too hard to make another machine pretend to be that keyboard.
If it's just a matrix of switches, it mau be a little harder if you need
to be able to press several keys at once.
6 Jul
6 Jul
11:35 a.m.
If the
keyboard is a seperate unit and internally encoded (that is, it
sends character codes or keycodes on a parallel or serial interface) it
may not be too hard to make another machine pretend to be that keyboard.
If it's just a matrix of switches, it mau be a little harder if you need
to be able to press several keys at once.
Microcontroler and a crosspoint switch IC such as the MT8816, is what I
4 Jul
4 Jul
4:53 p.m.
Glen Slick wrote:
Classic comp paralell->USB serial.
It might not take too much to build up something to do
that using an
FTDI FT245R - USB FIFO IC.
http://www.ftdichip.com/Products/FT245R.htm
It has a write strobe input and a FIFO full output, which might need
some simple logic to handshake with a standard LPT output. But you
wouldn't have to write any firmware for the USB microcontroller.
Indeed it should be pretty easy to use one of these it's pretty easy to
interface too, I have done so with a Dragon / CoCo. Plus they do them in
experementer friendly modules too DIP28 (or 24 can't exactly remember)
pinout as well.
Cheers.
Phill.
--
Phill Harvey-Smith, Programmer, Hardware hacker, and general eccentric !
"You can twist perceptions, but reality won't budge" -- Rush.
6 p.m.
On 4 Jul 2010 at 13:47, Glen Slick wrote:
It might not take too much to build up something to do
that using an
FTDI FT245R - USB FIFO IC.
http://www.ftdichip.com/Products/FT245R.htm
It has a write strobe input and a FIFO full output, which might need
some simple logic to handshake with a standard LPT output. But you
wouldn't have to write any firmware for the USB microcontroller.
Um, I'm confused. The FT245R is a slave device. Would it not
require a host controller to interface to a USB printer? The FT245
ISTR always looks like a communications device.
You might rig something up an FTDI Vinculum, however.
--Chuck
6:35 p.m.
From: cclist at sydex.com
On 4 Jul 2010 at 13:47, Glen Slick wrote:
Hi
I think Chuck is right. I didn't see anythig in the spec sheet about
it being a host controller, only about being an end receiver.
Dwight
_________________________________________________________________
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It might not take too much to build up something
to do that using an
FTDI FT245R - USB FIFO IC.
http://www.ftdichip.com/Products/FT245R.htm
It has a write strobe input and a FIFO full output, which might need
some simple logic to handshake with a standard LPT output. But you
wouldn't have to write any firmware for the USB microcontroller.
Um, I'm confused. The FT245R is a slave device. Would it not
require a host controller to interface to a USB printer? The FT245
ISTR always looks like a communications device.
You might rig something up an FTDI Vinculum, however.
--Chuck
5 Jul
5 Jul
7:59 a.m.
On Sun, Jul 4, 2010 at 6:00 PM, Chuck Guzis <cclist at sydex.com> wrote:
Um, I'm confused. ?The FT245R is a slave device. ?Would it not
require a host controller to interface to a USB printer? ?The FT245
ISTR always looks like a communications device.
Yes, you are confused. Tony's problem statement to which I replied
was capturing print data from a vintage PC to a USB capable host PC,
not printing from a vintage PC directly to a USB printer device.
9:25 a.m.
On 5 Jul 2010 at 7:59, Glen Slick wrote:
Yes, you are confused. Tony's problem statement
to which I replied
was capturing print data from a vintage PC to a USB capable host PC,
not printing from a vintage PC directly to a USB printer device.
Well, to be sure, you can get DIP packages like the Elexol USBMOD4
parallel-to-USB transfer module that would entail little more than
wiring up a cable.
But there are so many scrapped PCs available with USB and
(bidirectional) parallel ports, what would be the point of building
anything?
--Chuck
9:41 a.m.
Quoting Chuck Guzis <cclist at sydex.com>:
On 5 Jul 2010 at 7:59, Glen Slick wrote:
Smaller, and doesn't need yet another PC and atendant monitor keyboard
etc, which is another step to getting the output to your main PC.
Infact depending on the retro computer concerned, the FTDI245 (or
alternative) based circuit would probably sit inside the computer that
you where printing from. If you used one of the DIP modules, you could
probably get away with just wiring to it directly so would not even
have to do any tricky surface mount soldering.
Besides some of us actually *LIKE* building things :)
Cheers.
Phill.
----------------------------------------------------------------
This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program.
Yes, you are confused. Tony's problem
statement to which I replied
was capturing print data from a vintage PC to a USB capable host PC,
not printing from a vintage PC directly to a USB printer device.
Well, to be sure, you can get DIP packages like the Elexol USBMOD4
parallel-to-USB transfer module that would entail little more than
wiring up a cable.
But there are so many scrapped PCs available with USB and
(bidirectional) parallel ports, what would be the point of building
anything?
1:29 p.m.
On 5 Jul 2010 at 7:59, Glen Slick wrote:
As I have said many times, that depeends on where you are...
Yes, you are confused. Tony's problem
statement to which I replied
was capturing print data from a vintage PC to a USB capable host PC,
not printing from a vintage PC directly to a USB printer device.
Well, to be sure, you can get DIP packages like the Elexol USBMOD4
parallel-to-USB transfer module that would entail little more than
wiring up a cable.
But there are so many scrapped PCs available with USB and (bidirectional) parallel ports, what would be the
point of building
anything?
You;ve not seen my workbench ;-). I doubt I could find space for a PC +
monitor+keybaord alongide any classic machbine I was working on.
Quite apart from the fact that the simpler something is, there less there
is to go wrong....
-tony
1:47 p.m.
> (bidirectional) parallel ports, what would be the
point of building
> anything?
On Mon, 5 Jul 2010, Tony Duell wrote:
You;ve not seen my workbench ;-). I doubt I could find
space for a PC +
monitor+keybaord alongide any classic machbine I was working on.
Quite apart from the fact that the simpler something is, there less there
is to go wrong....
All of the additional hardware to do it using an existing PC fits in a
Centronics-like dongle. If the PC's printer port is bi-directional, then
there is no need or reason to even open the PC (if you run your PCs in
closed cases)
--
Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin at xenosoft.com
6 Jul
6 Jul
11:28 a.m.
> (bidirectional) parallel ports, what would
be the point of building
> anything?
On Mon, 5 Jul 2010, Tony Duell wrote:
You;ve not seen my workbench ;-). I doubt I could
find space for a PC +
monitor+keybaord alongide any classic machbine I was working on.
Quite apart from the fact that the simpler something is, there less there
is to go wrong....
All of the additional hardware to do it using an existing PC fits in a
Centronics-like dongle. If the PC's printer port is bi-directional, then there is no need or reason to even open the PC (if
you run your PCs in
closed cases)
Do you honestly think I put the case screws in my PC :-)
-tony
5 Jul
5 Jul
3:04 p.m.
On 5 Jul 2010 at 21:29, Tony Duell wrote:
You;ve not seen my workbench ;-). I doubt I could find
space for a PC
+ monitor+keybaord alongide any classic machbine I was working on.
Once you've got the code loaded into the PC, there's no need for
either a keyboard or a monitor. A little HP ePC takes up less space
than a shoebox.
There are also Linux-based Bluetooth and 100BaseT adapters that are
smaller than a roll of Lifesaver candies, so one needn't be
restricted to USB.
--Chuck
2:10 p.m.
On Mon, 5 Jul 2010, Glen Slick wrote:
Yes, you are confused. Tony's problem statement
to which I replied
was capturing print data from a vintage PC to a USB capable host PC,
not printing from a vintage PC directly to a USB printer device.
Who here is NOT confused?
BOTH ideas are being discussed.
The OP was for trying to print directly from a non-USB machine to a
"modern" printer.
The easiest way to do that, would of course, be to transfer the data to a
PC that has a printer, even if that printer is USB.
There are some here who are talking about what it would take to make an
adapter to convert from "centronics" output to USB, in order to connect a
USB printer to a non-USB machine. The EASIEST form of such an adapter
would be an existing PC with parallel AND USB ports. Software to input
one port, output another port is obviously not a big deal. The part being
discussed would NOT work for that purpose, because it expects to be
connected to a USB computer. On the other hand, that part COULD be used
for making a "centronics" input on a USB computer, which seems rather
pointless, since bidirectional parallel ports are readily available and a
USB controlled "centronics" input is readily available in the form of
bi-directional USB to parallel adapters.
confused,
--
Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin at xenosoft.com
1:24 p.m.
On 4 Jul 2010 at 13:47, Glen Slick wrote:
It would, if you wanted to connect it straight to the printer. My idea
was a device to let you get the data off the classic machine onto a
modern PC, and then format/print it from there. In which case a slave USB
devie is what is needed.
-tony
It might not take too much to build up something
to do that using an
FTDI FT245R - USB FIFO IC.
http://www.ftdichip.com/Products/FT245R.htm
It has a write strobe input and a FIFO full output, which might need
some simple logic to handshake with a standard LPT output. But you
wouldn't have to write any firmware for the USB microcontroller.
Um, I'm confused. The FT245R is a slave device. Would it not
require a host controller to interface to a USB printer? The FT245
ISTR always looks like a communications device. 
4 Jul
4 Jul
9:59 p.m.
Tony Duell wrote:
Buy regular thermal paper and build
your own perforator? :-)
I keep an old
IBM Graphics Printer (Epson MX-80), HP Deskjet 500 and
an HP LJ IIIP around for printing off classic computers like my TRS-80,
Atari, Amiga and other systems.
As I've mentioned before, I consider many of the peripherals to be a part
of 'classic computing' and have no problem finding interest in restoring,
say, an HP7245A thermal printer/plotter and then using it on one of my
classic HP machines (although what I do when I run out of the special
sprocketed thermal paper is another matter...).
For the same reason I recently rebuilt an HP2631B (large, text-only
dot-matrix printer with an HPIB interface) which will get used on one of
my HP9000s (and elserhere). And of course I have a few other HPIB
printers, HPIL printers, the CX-VDO laser printer on the PERQ, and the
like.
But I probably wouldn't want to print out longlistings on any of those.
Consumables for them are getting hard to find (and expensive). Normally I
trasnfer the data to this PC and send it to my (classic) laser printer.
For machines which can be convinced to 'print' to a serial port, it's
firly easy to capture the data nad upload it (As I've mentioned before,
the HP95LX palmtop is handly for this..). For machines that have a
parallel interface (not even necessarily Cantronics), it's not hard to
make an RS232 output interface using TTL logic, a dumb UART, or a
microcotnroller (depending on your preference), that looks like a
Centroincs (or whatever) printer to the classic machine and simply
squirts the data out to the HP95...
I wonder (and it's of no use to me at the momnet)... How hard would it be
to make a device with a Centronicts-like _input_ on one side and a USB
port on the other, adn some data buffering memory. The idea is that you
link it between your BBC micro, Amiga, TRS-80, etc (which thinks it's a
printer) and a PC running suitable software. The classic machine 'prints'
to this device. the software on the PC takes the data and stores it in a
file on the PC for later formatting and printing.
My guess is the hardware is little more than a microcontroller, amybe
with a bit of logic to ensure the handshake timing is correct (a D-type
and a couple of gates). The software is another matter, though...
I've not
personally done it so please take this as semi-informed
speculation, but I think it would be not too hard based on some things
I've been reading in Nuts & Volts and Circuit Cellar. Some of the PIC
CPUs have USB capability now and there is evidently some pretty nice
support software in their library. If you didn't want to use one of
those, then FTDI has some nifty chips with a lot of the USB logic built
in. If I correctly understand what you're wanting to do then you just
need a USB client and not a USB host which makes the problem a lot
easier. If you can also arrange to have the USB client emulate a human
interface device then you avoid needing any sort of driver in the PC.
If it were me though, I think I would tend to just grab an old PC with a
parallel port and arrange a bit of logic to make that talk to the
Centronics output of the classic computer. The software (under DOS yet)
should be pretty much a piece of cake with that arrangement. Just
mostly accept input up to CR, CRLF or whatever and write the text lines
to a file. I suppose handling escape sequences might not be quite so
much fun. It sort of depends on the capabilities of the target physical
printer and just how close to the classic's printout look one was
willing to support.
Later,
Charlie C.
-tony
5 Jul
5 Jul
6:28 a.m.
From: csquared3 at tx.rr.com
Hi
That is the point. He needs a host controller to talk to the printer.
A parallel input is to receive data from the old PC.
On another thought. If you can find an older laptop ( I'm typing
on a Dell D800 right now ), they come with both USB and a parallel
port. One should be able to write something to read the parallel
port and then send it out the USB. Not a real clean setup
but something that should work.
Dwight
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My guess is the hardware is little more than a microcontroller, amybe
with a bit of logic to ensure the handshake timing is correct (a D-type
and a couple of gates). The software is another matter, though...
I've not
personally done it so please take this as semi-informed
speculation, but I think it would be not too hard based on some things
I've been reading in Nuts & Volts and Circuit Cellar. Some of the PIC
CPUs have USB capability now and there is evidently some pretty nice
support software in their library. If you didn't want to use one of
those, then FTDI has some nifty chips with a lot of the USB logic built
in. If I correctly understand what you're wanting to do then you just
need a USB client and not a USB host which makes the problem a lot
easier. If you can also arrange to have the USB client emulate a human
interface device then you avoid needing any sort of driver in the PC.
12:12 p.m.
On Sun, 4 Jul 2010, Charlie Carothers wrote:
If it were me though, I think I would tend to just
grab an old PC with a
parallel port and arrange a bit of logic to make that talk to the
Centronics output of the classic computer.
That "logic" consists of a bidirectional printer port (See Bruce Eckel's
Interfacing book), and a cable that you WILL have to make yourself.
If it IS an old PC (less than about a dozen MHz), then you will need to
add some trivial circuitry to extend the pulse, otherwise your polling
loops will be too slow. If the alien machine is like MOST, then it cheats
on the spec, and the pulse is WAY too short to use interrupts.
The software (under DOS yet)
should be pretty much a piece of cake with that arrangement. Just
mostly accept input up to CR, CRLF or whatever and write the text lines
to a file. I suppose handling escape sequences might not be quite so
much fun. It sort of depends on the capabilities of the target physical
printer and just how close to the classic's printout look one was
willing to support.
Even the escape sequences are not hard to figure out. Many printers are
well documented. With a little trivial study, you can do post-processing.
It does NOT have to be done during the capture, IFF you are writing to a
file. If you choose to not write to a file, and use the PC as a print
buffer, then you will need to do ad-hoc processing.
If you do a good job of it, then you won't need to start from scratch NEXT
time.
--
Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin at xenosoft.com
9:19 p.m.
Fred Cisin wrote:
On Sun, 4 Jul 2010, Charlie Carothers wrote:
Yep. I
realized after I clicked send I should have probably said "bit
of logic, if needed" as I thought possibly only a cable might be needed.
If it were me though, I think I would tend to
just grab an old PC with a
parallel port and arrange a bit of logic to make that talk to the
Centronics output of the classic computer.
That "logic" consists of a bidirectional printer port (See Bruce Eckel's
Interfacing book), and a cable that you WILL have to make yourself.
If it IS an old PC (less than about a dozen MHz), then you will need to
add some trivial circuitry to extend the pulse, otherwise your polling
loops will be too slow. If the alien machine is like MOST, then it cheats
on the spec, and the pulse is WAY too short to use interrupts.
Yeah, I was thinking later that
the dot-matrix impact printers that I
mostly visualize originally being used with these machines could do ISTR
Epson emulation as one of their interface options (either that or they
actually *were* Epsons). So maybe you only need to recognize the Epson
escape sequences as long as you can convince the classic it is talking
to an Epson or emulated equivalent. Of course I'm sure there are
several exceptions where that idea won't fly. Seems like there are
always exceptions...
Later,
Charlie C.
The software (under DOS yet)
should be pretty much a piece of cake with that arrangement. Just
mostly accept input up to CR, CRLF or whatever and write the text lines
to a file. I suppose handling escape sequences might not be quite so
much fun. It sort of depends on the capabilities of the target physical
printer and just how close to the classic's printout look one was
willing to support.
Even the escape sequences are not hard to figure out. Many printers are
well documented. With a little trivial study, you can do post-processing.
It does NOT have to be done during the capture, IFF you are writing to a
file. If you choose to not write to a file, and use the PC as a print
buffer, then you will need to do ad-hoc processing.
If you do a good job of it, then you won't need to start from scratch NEXT
time.
--
Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin at xenosoft.com
12:19 a.m.
ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) writes:
How hard would it be to make a device with a
Centronicts-like _input_
on one side and a USB port on the other, adn some data buffering
memory.
I'd use one of the cheap embedded Linux boards for this -- then you can
run whatever conversion and printer driver software you like. Being able
to do automated N-up/duplex printing from a classic machine would be
handy for listings.
--
Adam Sampson <ats at offog.org> <http://offog.org/>
5064
days inactive
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28 comments
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