15 Aug
2000
15 Aug
'00
11:01 a.m.
Over the past couple of months, I've been trying to accumulate
some basic DEC documentation. There is quite a bit available
on the web, but I've needed a number of manuals/schematics/etc.
that I haven't been able to find, and as a result I've been forced
to use E-pay more than I would have liked. I don't know how many
of you out there have checked the DEC/PDP offerings on ebay,
but there has been quite a lot offered recently in the way of
documentation. Unfortunately, I find myself bidding against people
who share my same interest, and it saddens me since I've always
felt that documentation should be available for everyone who wants
it (please, no flames! This is just a personal opinion) Documentation
is unique in that, in many cases, a photocopy (or scanned image)
in place of the actual document would be just as useful to me as the
original since my interests lean towards restoring the hardware,
rather than collecting the "original" documentation. I also see small
manuals/schematic sets/etc. being broken up into indivudual items
and going for what I believe is much more than they are worth (again,
no flames!, this is just my opinion). It has occured to me that if a
mailing list were set up where a person could post their intention of
bidding on a specific piece of duplicatable documentation, then other
potential bidders could contact the initial poster and work out a deal
where they could "share" the cost of the initial poster's bid (plus
copying charges), in return for not competing with the initial poster's
bid.You may have noticed that I have avoided the problem of copyright
infringement. I believe that with documentation of the vintage that I am
refering to, such issues are probably moot, especially since In many
cases the companies no longer exist. As far as the sellers on E-bay
go, they have a significant advantage since their individual items remain
on the block for days, rather than minutes as in a "real" auction.
(but let's not turn this into yet another "is E-bay fair?" thread :-)
Also, I wonder of some of the on-line "Computer Museums" might
consider hosting an on-line documentation repository, where people
could submit scanned schematics/manuals/etc. for (free) web-based
access and archival purposes. It would be a tremendous service
to our on-line community. Currently, this is being done by a number
of very helpful individuals, but I would think that some of the "real"
museum sites might be more capable of organizing such info and
supporting the amount of storage needed.
Again, I'm just throing these ideas out to see if anyone thinks
they have any merit...
-al-
-acorda(a)geocities.com
15 Aug
15 Aug
1:31 p.m.
On Tue, 15 Aug 2000, Corda Albert J DLVA wrote:
no flames!, this is just my opinion). It has occured
to me that if a
mailing list were set up where a person could post their intention of
bidding on a specific piece of duplicatable documentation, then other
potential bidders could contact the initial poster and work out a deal
where they could "share" the cost of the initial poster's bid (plus
copying charges), in return for not competing with the initial poster's
bid.You may have noticed that I have avoided the problem of copyright
infringement. I believe that with documentation of the vintage that I am
refering to, such issues are probably moot, especially since In many
cases the companies no longer exist.
Sure, but I think there's another problem, which is that this practice is
most likely illegal :)
Still, I won't fault you for it and I won't turn you in either (I'll have
my terms e-mailed to you off-list ;)
Also, I wonder of some of the on-line "Computer
Museums" might
consider hosting an on-line documentation repository, where people
could submit scanned schematics/manuals/etc. for (free) web-based
access and archival purposes. It would be a tremendous service
I'd like to do this someday when I complete my organization. If someone
beats me to it in the mean time then all the better.
to our on-line community. Currently, this is being
done by a number
of very helpful individuals, but I would think that some of the "real"
museum sites might be more capable of organizing such info and
supporting the amount of storage needed.
They have the same problems we do: lack of time and resources.
Sellam International Man of Intrigue and Danger
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Looking for a six in a pile of nines...
VCF 4.0 is September 30-October 1
San Jose Convention Center, San Jose, California
See http://www.vintage.org for details!
16 Aug
16 Aug
7:28 a.m.
Sellam wrote:
Sure, but I think there's another problem, which
is that this practice is
most likely illegal :)
If someone would set up a library, there are lots of exemptions in
copyright law for those. It would probably have to be set up as a
non-profit corporation; otherwise it might be possible for a copyright
holder that wants to stir up trouble to claim that it's not a "real"
library.
Copyright law allows a library to make a (single) photocopy of a document to
lend out in place of a rare document. I think a case could be made that
a scanned image is equivalent. You'd just have to require that the
borrower return the scanned image when they're done with it. Perhaps a
scheme like netlibrary uses would work.
1:39 a.m.
I agree with you, because I sometime have pay more than I really want
to get something that I need or either I back off and let the other
person have it and hope more comes online. I have tried what you
suggest in trying to work with other bidders and let them have it in
exchange for a copy of the manual but each time someone else comes in at
the last second and out bids them and we all end up with nothing, so
it's a big gamble sometimes. The best is a online site that does get
doc's from all over and puts up for the use of all. I have a large
collection of manuals and would be willing donate for free to a site
that would put them online for others. I get request from strangers all
the time for copies of manuals that I have but I do not own a copier and
the cost to copy 300 to 400 or more pages is too high and too much time
if you are doing a bound book.
John Keys
----- Original Message -----
From: "Corda Albert J DLVA" <CordaAJ(a)nswc.navy.mil>
To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2000 6:01 PM
Subject: Computer Hardware Documentation Bidders Mailing List?
Over the past couple of months, I've been trying to accumulate
some basic DEC documentation. There is quite a bit available
on the web, but I've needed a number of manuals/schematics/etc.
that I haven't been able to find, and as a result I've been forced
to use E-pay more than I would have liked. I don't know how many
of you out there have checked the DEC/PDP offerings on ebay,
but there has been quite a lot offered recently in the way of
documentation. Unfortunately, I find myself bidding against people
who share my same interest, and it saddens me since I've always
felt that documentation should be available for everyone who wants
it (please, no flames! This is just a personal opinion)
Documentation
is unique in that, in many cases, a photocopy (or
scanned image)
in place of the actual document would be just as useful to me as the
original since my interests lean towards restoring the hardware,
rather than collecting the "original" documentation. I also see
small
manuals/schematic sets/etc. being broken up into
indivudual items
and going for what I believe is much more than they are worth (again,
no flames!, this is just my opinion). It has occured to me that if a
mailing list were set up where a person could post their intention of
bidding on a specific piece of duplicatable documentation, then other
potential bidders could contact the initial poster and work out a deal
where they could "share" the cost of the initial poster's bid (plus
copying charges), in return for not competing with the initial
poster's
bid.You may have noticed that I have avoided the
problem of copyright
infringement. I believe that with documentation of the vintage that I
am
refering to, such issues are probably moot, especially
since In many
cases the companies no longer exist. As far as the sellers on E-bay
go, they have a significant advantage since their individual items
remain
on the block for days, rather than minutes as in a
"real" auction.
(but let's not turn this into yet another "is E-bay fair?" thread :-)
Also, I wonder of some of the on-line "Computer Museums" might
consider hosting an on-line documentation repository, where people
could submit scanned schematics/manuals/etc. for (free) web-based
access and archival purposes. It would be a tremendous service
to our on-line community. Currently, this is being done by a number
of very helpful individuals, but I would think that some of the "real"
museum sites might be more capable of organizing such info and
supporting the amount of storage needed.
Again, I'm just throing these ideas out to see if anyone thinks
they have any merit...
-al-
-acorda(a)geocities.com
8895
days inactive
8896
days old
3 comments
4 participants
participants (4)
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CordaAJ＠nswc.navy.mil -
eric＠brouhaha.com -
foo＠siconic.com -
jrkeys＠concentric.net