Way better? I would say simpler, the 64 was more complex in design but was par woith the machines of the time (Atari and Apple) where the VIC-20 was lagging at that point. And you guys mention graphics which were good, but it took YEARS for anyone to match the 64 in the sound depertment (first the Amiga then later the Soundblaster - was about to say IBM, but the big computer co.s had nothing to do with quality sound development on that platform.) Though it is sure easy to read that 22x23 character screen! I did with a VIC-20 and a datasette for a year, it sure teaches one to code tight. In reference to the memory question some VIC/VC REUs went to 24k (like the MSD one I have here), but there was also the Aprotek RAM expander/cartridge expander which filled every gap, all the contiguous memory (including the 3k portion in lower RAM) as well as the upper 8K Game ROM space. 32k? I think they gave it a bigger number, maybe by adding the 5k and the ROMS to the 'total memory', regardless, the Aprotek one was the ultimate in VIC-20 expanders... I hear of more of the P/B500 in europe then here, actually in the U.S. I think there are maybe three or so around, since they never were oficially released past the late prototype stage (due to one of Commodore's run-ins with the FCC). Dunno how many (if any) they sold in europe. 00101110010101100101011001000110 Before that the 'color computer' Commodore was developing was referred to as the TOI. I have read in one place that the TOI unit used a different video chip (recommended by Peddle?), but it could just be a rumor. I recall my first seeing the TOI article in a Cursor tape newsletter (paper portion), anyone got that issue?