Yes. ALL the ducks. Several of us have been bounced at the border for trying to bring in larger machines. Basically, if it is something that is not a laptop or PeeCee or normal consumer electronics, expect trouble. It is not 1998 anymore. -- Will On Fri, Sep 4, 2015 at 12:49 PM, Al Kossow <aek at bitsavers.org> wrote:

Not for things more complicated than typical consumer electronics. -- Will

And the Canadian side is the nice side! -- Will

On Fri, Sep 4, 2015 at 1:46 PM, William Donzelli <wdonzelli at gmail.com> wrote: On my big Canadian ccmp retrieval run last December, we were detailed for an hour+ while the agents inspected my nearly empty car, read my email on my phone (found a search for the word "Canada,") and went through our bags. On the way back, packed to the gills with old computers, the US agent laughed, asked "what do you DO with all that??" and sent us on our way. Completely anecdotal but jives with other reports I've heard. -j

On 2015-09-04 5:20 PM, Jason T wrote: I hope everyone saw that and understands what it means. Borders have changed. Any data you take across them is fair game. --Toby

I had fun taking 20 IBM pc's from Montreal to the usa. I ended up setting up a broker account to ship items in a rented van. It was do this or the items would be impounded. I had to be escorted by flashing lights custims police bacj into canada. You can't simply drive through customs without correct paperwork. Stuck at border and customs for 6 hours. Bill Bill Degnan twitter: billdeg vintagecomputer.net On Sep 4, 2015 8:15 PM, "Tothwolf" <tothwolf at concentric.net> wrote:

* Steven Hirsch <snhirsch at gmail.com> [150905 09:59]: I think there's a difference between one or two (or more) items in the back seat and a u-haul full of stuff too. Though I've been hassled coming back into the US (never going into Canada about computer stuff, they hassle me more about other things) with just my personal computers I took on vacation... Todd

-----Original Message----- From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Steven Hirsch Sent: Saturday, September 05, 2015 9:59 AM To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: Re: Electronic devices and borders - Re: Possible road trip....Illnois, Canada, Maine and back On Fri, 4 Sep 2015, william degnan wrote: of classic gear before he moved to Germany. My wife and I made a day trip to Montreal and had absolutely no problems at >the border coming back in. I think the ICE agent found it amusing. They took a brief look at the back seat, then asked what was in the trunk. I said "..more of the same". After a brief grimace, he >waved me through. I believe the issue going to the USA is with "commercial" vs "personal property". AFAIK, US CBP has discretion on commercial up to a value of $2500 regarding pre-notification and a customs broker requirement but recently it seems like they are not allowing anything commercial without full procedures. I think a US Citizen or Resident Alien would have little trouble getting through to the USA as long as whatever they were bring in is identified as personal property. I have been turned back coming from Canada to VCF MW with a load of "trading items" in my station wagon. They required a broker and none would take walk-in clients. However, no flashing lights escort staged to get me back to Canada. There are only two options on the form they ask you to sign: (a.) US Citizen or resident with personal property or, (b.) Commercial goods. Recently I inquired about establishing a relationship with a broker and quit when asked for a $700 surety bond by the broker. I tried only one broker so maybe others would require less. On the Canadian side, last time I brought commercial stuff through, I was allowed to fill out all the required forms at the border without any pre-notification of arrival etc. They have computers set up for importers to enter the documents online right at the counter. It's a good idea to organize yourself with knowledge of how to complete the forms before you show up. Will be testing the system going south again soon. Dan --

On 2015-09-04 11:58 PM, Mike Ross wrote: "What's your phone PIN?" "Log into your email." "Log into Facebook." and after that, google "rubber hose filesystem". --Toby

On Fri, Sep 04, 2015 at 12:55:25PM -0400, William Donzelli wrote: The FreeBSD Foundation, a 501c(3), turned down a donation of some Canadian machines because the only place we could host them was NYI/ New Jersey. The donating company was willing to let us have the machines but could not figure out the legal complexities to provide the paperwork. (I was willing to be the labor). The Foundation's lawyers advised that we should _not_ transport anything across the border without paperwork specifying the origin of the equipment, the intended use, the current value, and any number of other things. My personal experiences are that big border crossings (e.g. at the terminus of U.S. Interstates) are less likely to detain you for questioning. The smallest ones are suspicious of anyone who isn't a local and will want to find out why you used _that_ crossing. On 10+ crossings I have spent between 30 seconds and 2.5 hours. The latter they went through the car -- twice -- with a drug dog. I was sitting there thinking, ok, what if some asshole who had the car before me left a dope seed in it. (NB: I am not taking a position for or against dope seeds here :-) ) Which reminds me. The most important rule of all border crossings, and pardon me for shouting: ALWAYS GO TO THE BATHROOM FIRST. One of the 1.5 hour crossings they wouldn't let me, apparently nervous I would flush my (non-existant) stash I suppose. mcl

The discussions of crossing the US/Canada border have been interesting. Only once have I crossed with classic computer gear (I took a SPARCstation 20 to Idaho Falls, Idaho for a list member, while en route to San Diego from Saskatchewan) and I had no trouble at all at the border. Then again, the story that I was delivering an old computer with near-zero value to someone who wanted it for hobby purposes when I was already driving that way did make sense. :) I cross the border south of where I live (Regway, SK/Raymond, MT) about once a month because I have a PO box in Raymond, MT. I sometimes mail stuff from Montana. It's all non-commercial. I declare it, I often get asked follow-up questions (which I answer sincerely) and so far, I've always been allowed to enter. Coming back, I import whatever I had shipped to the PO box (and anything I liberated from the bigger town a few miles south) and declare it. Again, no problems. It's a 24/7 crossing but it's probably the quietest 24/7 one on the border. Last Tuesday I brought my mail up at Pembina, ND/Emerson, MB because we got the mail en route to Fargo and then went to Winnipeg. I declared like I always do, and had no problems like I always do. If I were taking really big stuff across I'd just be sure to print lots of emails documenting the exchange, and make sure I had phone numbers for the key people involved in case customs officers had questions. Generally if you can show them that you're not doing anything for commercial purposes (including resale), you'll be fine. Commercial stuff can be done too but it requires some hoop-jumping and I haven't learned how to do this since I don't have any commercial activities that cross the border. Jim

On Fri, Sep 04, 2015 at 11:29:37PM -0500, Mark Linimon wrote: Which one? Thousand Islands? -- - db at FreeBSD.org db at db.net http://www.db.net/~db

Related road trip info, I am currently in New Mexico and heading up to Colorado before I swing back to Austin, Texas. I can move a small trunkload of "stuff" during this swing if anyone wants. mcl