26 Nov
2019
26 Nov
'19
11:15 a.m.
It is such a shame that in the "information age", we have lost so much of the
information. It doesn't help when we have people like Jobs that like to write their
own version.
It is even worse when companies think it is a law suite risk to keep information more than
a year. It is all lost.
"The information lost age"
Dwight
26 Nov
26 Nov
11:40 a.m.
On Tue, 26 Nov 2019, dwight via cctalk wrote:
It is such a shame that in the "information
age", we have lost so much
of the information. It doesn't help when we have people like Jobs that
like to write their own version.
As I understand it, he has personally stopped doing that.
It is even worse when companies think it is a law
suite risk to keep
information more than a year. It is all lost.
Not only the liability, but the assumption that it is being stored
somewhere else, and therefore the physical forms are no more than an
inconvenient waste of space.
(cf. 1970s purge of episodes of Doctor Who, and 2019 destruction of all
YahooGroups files)
"The information lost age"
It is
written in sand.
noon
On 11/26/19 11:40 AM, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote:
On Tue, 26 Nov 2019, dwight via cctalk wrote:
The thing is that all histories are the writer's own version, even ones
that try to record what "really" happened.
It is such a shame that in the "information
age", we have lost so much
of the information. It doesn't help when we have people like Jobs that
like to write their own version.
As I understand it, he has personally stopped doing that. > It is even worse when companies think it is a law
suit risk to keep
> information more than a year. It is all lost.
Having been involved in intellectual property legal discovery, I will
confirm that it can be a risk.
Not only the liability, but the assumption that it is being stored
somewhere else, and therefore the physical forms are no more than an
inconvenient waste of space.
(cf. 1970s purge of episodes of Doctor Who, and 2019 destruction of all
YahooGroups files)
I have been involved with making sure that the content of a number of
YahooGroups related to Lotus Cars is not lost. My computer spent 40
hours backing up the 174000 messages posted to the Turbo Esprit group.
But, even if Yahoo hadn't shut it down, most of the info there was not
really usable because there was no good way to search it. At least, now
that we have been chased from Yahoo, the backups that I and others have
made have been copied and spread all over, so it is better preserved,
though not any more accessible.
alan
"The information lost age"
It is
written in sand.
12:58 p.m.
I have particular interest in early 4004 code. Intel is an empty box. It was just by luck
that someone saved many of the original films of the 4004 chips. As for code, I've got
a few bits and piece but little original source. I did find some stuff searching the Naval
Post Graduate schools library. It is a good thing the government services hang on to
things long after they have no value to them ( like 8 inch disk, haa ). Still, only 2
original sources, poorly pdf'ed. This was all work done by students of Gary Kildall (
you remember him, don't you ).
Most know Tom Pittman from his Tiny Basic on the 6502/6800. He also wrote the assembler
that ran on a 4004 for the 4004. It was likely the first assembler written to run on same
microprocessor. Intel supplied it on EPROMs but the only information I have so far is
three of the four EPROMs with good data ( mostly good anyway ) and one almost empty
EPROM.
I've contacted Tom about it but after moving from California, he said it is unlikely
any of it remains. I keep meaning to make an adjustable threshold 1702 reader but have to
many other projects on the fire.
What I did recover was almost lost, I got the ones I'd been looking for from a friend
in Norway. He knew I was looking for the set. When he saw them in a pile of 1702s that
were being sold, he saved them from being erased because he recognize the Intel EPROM
number on the paper tags.
While off little practical use, these are important parts of the thread that brings us to
the processors we have today. The loss would have been gone forever had some sharp eyes
not noticed them.
Should anyone come across 1702s with A0740,A741,A0742 and especially A0743 tags on them,
please don't erase them.
Dwight
________________________________
From: cctalk <cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org> on behalf of Alan Perry via cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Sent: Tuesday, November 26, 2019 12:00 PM
To: cctalk at classiccmp.org <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Subject: Re: The information age
On 11/26/19 11:40 AM, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote:
On Tue, 26 Nov 2019, dwight via cctalk wrote:
The thing is that all histories are the writer's own version, even ones
that try to record what "really" happened.
It is such a shame that in the "information
age", we have lost so much
of the information. It doesn't help when we have people like Jobs that
like to write their own version.
As I understand it, he has personally stopped doing that. > It is even worse when companies think it is a law
suit risk to keep
> information more than a year. It is all lost.
Having been involved in intellectual property legal discovery, I will
confirm that it can be a risk.
Not only the liability, but the assumption that it is being stored
somewhere else, and therefore the physical forms are no more than an
inconvenient waste of space.
(cf. 1970s purge of episodes of Doctor Who, and 2019 destruction of all
YahooGroups files)
I have been involved with making sure that the content of a number of
YahooGroups related to Lotus Cars is not lost. My computer spent 40
hours backing up the 174000 messages posted to the Turbo Esprit group.
But, even if Yahoo hadn't shut it down, most of the info there was not
really usable because there was no good way to search it. At least, now
that we have been chased from Yahoo, the backups that I and others have
made have been copied and spread all over, so it is better preserved,
though not any more accessible.
alan
"The information lost age"
It is
written in sand.
12:45 p.m.
It is such a shame that in the "information
age", we have lost so much of the information. It doesn't help when we have
people like Jobs that like to write their own version.
It is even worse when companies think it is a law suite risk to keep information more
than a year. It is all lost.
"The information lost age"
Dwight
We owe a ton of props to the Internet Archive. While they might not have
everything, they have a glimpse into the early days of the internet and
have been at it since early on.
- Ethan O'Toole
--
: Ethan O'Toole
7:16 p.m.
" ... like to write their own version"
It's a good thing no one else ever wrote their own version of history ...
oh, wait, _everyone_ does that! They once called it "To the victor goes
the spoils (of victory)." Jealously will get you nowhere, by the way.
Inferior products and services can only be marketed for so long before end
users find and demand something better, so, anything that lasts more than a
marketing flash in the pan is more likely to be satisfying a real need.
For a long time, IT nerds who were getting payola from certain convicted
monopolists forced end users to suffer with inferior hardware and software,
but, when it came to spending their own money, users found the better
products that weren't hamstrung by a registry, that weren't marketed solely
by comparing meaningless MHz and MBs, that were based on hardware capable
of supporting upwards of half-a-dozen first-digit major version OS upgrades
provided at no additional cost, that were based on close observation of
actual humans using prototypes of next-version products and responding with
improvements based on voluminous user feedback, that were copied endlessly,
but with inferior results, etc., etc., etc.
Estate and garage sales of retired engineers' collections who are
downsizing are lucrative sources of ... sources!
If anyone wants 4004 code, just open up one of those shiny silver or dark
green boxes on a corner of any intersection with a traffic light ...
It's "lawsuit", not "law suite", BTW. Slingers of code and CAD
layouts
have to get every single character and trace absolutely correct.
On Tue, Nov 26, 2019 at 12:15 PM dwight via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
wrote:
It is such a shame that in the "information
age", we have lost so much of
the information. It doesn't help when we have people like Jobs that like to
write their own version.
It is even worse when companies think it is a law suite risk to keep
information more than a year. It is all lost.
"The information lost age"
Dwight
7:23 p.m.
On Tue, 26 Nov 2019, Jim Manley via cctalk wrote:
" ... like to write their own version"
It's a good thing no one else ever wrote their own version of history ...
oh, wait, _everyone_ does that! They once called it "To the victor goes
the spoils (of victory)."
"History is written by the victors" is often attributed to Winston
Churchill, but its origin is really unkown.
It's "lawsuit", not "law
suite", BTW. Slingers of code and CAD layouts
have to get every single character and trace absolutely correct.
Sometimes it becomes a suite of suits filed by the suits.
27 Nov
27 Nov
7:33 a.m.
I thought most old traffic light controllers used 1802s.
Some early printers used Prolog cpu boards with 4004s. They also used 4004s in some early
cash registers as well but I'd not known they were used in traffic lights.
I have an example of some code written for what I believe was a printer that came off a
Prolog board. One can see that it took a simple keyboard input and wrote out several
single value including a CRLF to some terminal device. It was interesting that I found a
new use for the JCN instruction in this code. It is possible to create an "always
don't jump" or a SKIP instruction. It messed up my disassembly because it
didn't understand the operation of a conditional jump with not condition. I was able
to modify my disassembler to handle this as well and added a new non-Intel instruction to
my assembler.
Dwight
________________________________
From: cctalk <cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org> on behalf of Fred Cisin via cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Sent: Tuesday, November 26, 2019 7:23 PM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Subject: Re: The information age
On Tue, 26 Nov 2019, Jim Manley via cctalk wrote:
" ... like to write their own version"
It's a good thing no one else ever wrote their own version of history ...
oh, wait, _everyone_ does that! They once called it "To the victor goes
the spoils (of victory)."
"History is written by the victors" is often attributed to Winston
Churchill, but its origin is really unkown.
It's "lawsuit", not "law
suite", BTW. Slingers of code and CAD layouts
have to get every single character and trace absolutely correct.
Sometimes it becomes a suite of suits filed by the suits.
7:54 a.m.
Add to that: History is rewritten by power.
On Wed, Nov 27, 2019 at 4:23 AM Fred Cisin via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
wrote:
On Tue, 26 Nov 2019, Jim Manley via cctalk wrote:
" ... like to write their own version"
It's a good thing no one else ever wrote their own version of history ...
oh, wait, _everyone_ does that! They once called it "To the victor goes
the spoils (of victory)."
"History is written by the victors" is often attributed to Winston
Churchill, but its origin is really unkown.
It's "lawsuit", not "law
suite", BTW. Slingers of code and CAD layouts
have to get every single character and trace absolutely correct.
Sometimes it becomes a suite of suits filed by the suits.
1805
days inactive
1806
days old
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participants (6)
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aperry＠snowmoose.com -
cisin＠xenosoft.com -
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