25 Mar
2006
25 Mar
'06
4:12 p.m.
Many thanks to whomever suggested NetBSD for my QIC02 support problem.
I've been a long time user of Linux--my last contact with BSD was back in
the 80's on a VAX--I think it was 4.2BSD.
The last few years, the rot in Linux has been getting to me. It seems that
every time I want to do something a little off the beaten path, it's a
matter of Googling for "who else has this problem?" and finding patches and
putting up with careless distros. And endless bloat implementing things
that I didn't even dream that anyone could want.
NetBSD (I installed 2.1 to be safe) is the way I remember Unix--no-nonsense
and no-frills. The kernel compiled with what I wanted on the first try. I
haven't installed KDE yet, but it looks to be pretty straightforward.
The surprise is how well NetBSD functions on a lowly Pentium 166.
Compiling the kernel is a matter of saying "make" just before you go to
bed.
Cheers,
Chuck
25 Mar
25 Mar
4:34 p.m.
On Saturday 25 March 2006 04:12 pm, Chuck Guzis wrote:
Many thanks to whomever suggested NetBSD for my QIC02
support problem.
I've been a long time user of Linux--my last contact with BSD was back in
the 80's on a VAX--I think it was 4.2BSD.
The last few years, the rot in Linux has been getting to me. It seems that
every time I want to do something a little off the beaten path, it's a
matter of Googling for "who else has this problem?" and finding patches and
putting up with careless distros. And endless bloat implementing things
that I didn't even dream that anyone could want.
I guess that might be a problem with some distros, but it hasn't been so much
for me with Slackware, which is pretty much the only one that I've run
consistently since I started running linux in 1999.
NetBSD (I installed 2.1 to be safe) is the way I
remember Unix--no-nonsense
and no-frills. The kernel compiled with what I wanted on the first try. I
haven't installed KDE yet, but it looks to be pretty straightforward.
Do that and you'll find some bloat, all right. But it's not too bad. That's
what I'm typing in now, in kmail.
The surprise is how well NetBSD functions on a lowly
Pentium 166.
Compiling the kernel is a matter of saying "make" just before you go to
bed.
My "server" is a K6-200 and I've compiled kernels on there, though not
lately, and it wasn't nearly that bad. Now trying it on a 486, OTOH...
--
Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and
ablest -- form of life in this section of space, a critter that can
be killed but can't be tamed. --Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters"
-
Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James
M Dakin
4:58 p.m.
"Chuck Guzis" wrote:
NetBSD (I installed 2.1 to be safe) is the way I remember Unix--no-nonsense
and no-frills. The kernel compiled with what I wanted on the first try. I
haven't installed KDE yet, but it looks to be pretty straightforward.
I don't share your views on linux, but that may well be a matter of
personal taste (or running 3ghz servers with multicore cpus and SATA :-)
But I will say the NetBSD have done an excellent job on their build
system. Near as I can tell it will build for any platform on any
machine as long as it's posix compliant.
I built a clean vax kernel on a linux box without lifting a finger. It was
a most pleasant experience.
and i will always have a soft spot for bsd unix :-)
-brad
5:08 p.m.
Chuck Guzis wrote:
Many thanks to whomever suggested NetBSD for my QIC02
support problem.
I've been a long time user of Linux--my last contact with BSD was back in
the 80's on a VAX--I think it was 4.2BSD.
The last few years, the rot in Linux has been getting to me. It seems that
every time I want to do something a little off the beaten path, it's a
matter of Googling for "who else has this problem?" and finding patches and
putting up with careless distros. And endless bloat implementing things
that I didn't even dream that anyone could want.
Agreed. Folks seem to think of Linux as a playground instead of a
platform. Who cares if you have a gorgeous skylight in your house
if the roof leaks?? :-( No, I *don't* want to upgrade my kernel
to get *this* fixed -- along with a NEW set of bugs. :-(
(I can get that sort of thing from Microsoft :< )
I started using NetBSD 0.8 (!) in early 1990's (maybe 1993?).
Then, moved to FreeBSD as they were further along with certain
stability and userland issues (the NetBSD folks have always had
a much harder job since they have to support N architectures
instead of the *single* x86 architecture that FBSD supported
at that time).
But, FBSD quickly became a Linux-wannabe... oodles of features
added but lots of bugs in already existing (cough) "features".
So, I went back to the NBSD camp and have been there ever since.
NetBSD (I installed 2.1 to be safe) is the way I
remember Unix--no-nonsense
and no-frills. The kernel compiled with what I wanted on the first try. I
haven't installed KDE yet, but it looks to be pretty straightforward.
I think you will find the "packages" to be of more dubious quality
than the core OS features. There seems to be much less discipline
there. And, I have found people don't often understand what they
are tinkering with as they patch the code -- "it compiled without
any errors, so it MUST be OK, right??" :<
The surprise is how well NetBSD functions on a lowly
Pentium 166.
Compiling the kernel is a matter of saying "make" just before you go to
bed.
Heh heh heh... try building a kernel on a SPARC classic (40MHz?).
Actually, it isn't terribly unbearable. And, you can always
keep working while it's doing its thing!
Please, no flames from the Linux world. I respect what you are
trying to do -- it just doesn't "fit" with what *my* needs are!
(I don't buy *hammers* that also have built in AM/FM radios and
dental floss dispensers... I just want to drive a *nail* and be
done with it! :> )
--don
5:31 p.m.
On Saturday 25 March 2006 05:08 pm, Don Y wrote:
KDE seems to be the one area of the stuff I run here that gives me a bit of
trouble...
Maybe it's because I'm running several machines here that never get turned
off. I seldom log off, either. And on this one box (that I'm typing on) I
have continuing increase of swap used, until it gets to the point where
response starts to suffer. Depending on what I'm doing, this can take a few
days, or it can take a few weeks. Running a lot of tasks or a lot of tabs
in the Firefox browser seems to make it worse quicker.
Can you say memory leak? Thought so...
But I don't have to reboot or shut the machine down or anything like that to
fix it, just log out of KDE and go back in again. Hm, I just looked and
I'm currently up over 207M of swap used, but if I log out of here and log
back in with exactly the same mix of applications open it'll be sitting there
at 3-5M of swap used.
I hope they get it fixed sometime soon...
--
Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and
ablest -- form of life in this section of space, a critter that can
be killed but can't be tamed. --Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters"
-
Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James
M Dakin
NetBSD (I
installed 2.1 to be safe) is the way I remember
Unix--no-nonsense and no-frills. The kernel compiled with what I wanted
on the first try. I haven't installed KDE yet, but it looks to be pretty
straightforward.
I think you will find the "packages" to be of more dubious quality
than the core OS features. There seems to be much less discipline
there. And, I have found people don't often understand what they
are tinkering with as they patch the code -- "it compiled without
any errors, so it MUST be OK, right??" :<
6:11 p.m.
Roy J. Tellason wrote:
On Saturday 25 March 2006 05:08 pm, Don Y wrote:
Not surprising -- when you look at how BIG it is. :-(
I think you will find the "packages" to
be of more dubious quality
than the core OS features. There seems to be much less discipline
there. And, I have found people don't often understand what they
are tinkering with as they patch the code -- "it compiled without
any errors, so it MUST be OK, right??" :<
KDE seems to be the one area of the stuff I run here that gives me a bit of
trouble... Maybe it's because I'm running several
machines here that never get turned
off. I seldom log off, either. And on this one box (that I'm typing on) I
have continuing increase of swap used, until it gets to the point where
response starts to suffer. Depending on what I'm doing, this can take a few
days, or it can take a few weeks. Running a lot of tasks or a lot of tabs
in the Firefox browser seems to make it worse quicker.
Can you say memory leak? Thought so...
Yup. Hence my analogy to "hammer with dental floss dispenser". :-(
I don't run a "desktop". Just bare xterms/emacs on top of twm.
I don't need much more that that to write/compile/test my code. :>
I keep a disposable Windows machine to talk to the outside world.
Nothing of value on it (software or data) so *if* I encounter
something mean and nasty while online, I just reinsert the CD
and reinstall the OS from scratch. Much less maintenance
required than having to download and apply the newest set of
"security patches" for <fill-in-the-blank> OS. (And, a lot
more peace of mind knowing my codebase is never vulnerable!)
But I don't have to reboot or shut the machine
down or anything like that to
fix it, just log out of KDE and go back in again. Hm, I just looked and
I'm currently up over 207M of swap used, but if I log out of here and log
back in with exactly the same mix of applications open it'll be sitting there
at 3-5M of swap used.
I hope they get it fixed sometime soon...
And, that the fix doesn't break something that you can't work around!
:-(
5:29 p.m.
The surprise is how well NetBSD functions on a lowly
Pentium 166.
I have NetBSD/mac68k running happily on a Mac IIci here. It handles internal
DNS, printer services and power failure alerts, and offers AppleShare services
to the old Macs on the network. Does the job well.
--
--------------------------------- personal: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ ---
Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser at floodgap.com
-- When in doubt, use brute force. -- Ken Thompson ----------------------------
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