2 Oct
2000
2 Oct
'00
6:21 p.m.
Hi Paul,
This isn't an allocation class issue. Its something I brought on myself,
and for that am paying the price :-). My true question is whether or not
I'm going to be stuck re-installing VMS, however given the way VMS works
I'm sure there is some voodoo to fix it.
I got in this mess as follows:
I installed an RF72 drive into my 4000/200 and proceeded to do a 'sho dev'
on it. It showed up on the DSSI bus as $24$DIA264:
I then installed VMS 7.2 on to this drive, followed by a bunch of layered
products.
Then I read in the KA660 technical manual how to "talk" to the DSSI drives,
(which is very arcane using the KFQSA but a snap on the KA640 and KA660)
and proceeded to tell the drive to call itself node SYSTEM and unit 0.
This worked fine, and I noted that I could now boot the system by
specifying DIA0: rather than DIA264: (which I never could remember anyway).
Then I went to install another layered product. That installation failed
because it couldn't find a file is was expecting in
SYS$SYSDEVICE:[SY0.SYSTEMP] (or something very similar). So I did a dir
SYS$SYSDEVICE: and sure enough there was nothing there, then I did a SHOW
LOGICALS and from there discovered that SYS$SYSDEVICE: was defined to be
$24$DIA264: (the original name of the DSSI drive)
Now I could name it back again. But I'd rather tell VMS where the SYSDEVICE
now sits (for all the system, like on a permanent basis). If I 'define' it,
it changes for the current process but doesn't change universally and more
importantly other things are stuck that way to.
Nothing is SYSTARTUP_VMS.COM defines these so they must be in a parameter
database somewhere else. That is where I'm looking now ...
On a somewhat related note, I went out and forked over $100 for a true 5
port switch so that I can put my VLC cluster on a switch! Now all I need is
a console multiplexor.
--Chuck
At 08:35 PM 10/2/00 -0500, you wrote:
The system$dia0 isn't especially newer or better.
It is the name of the
disk with the allocation class set to 0. Check your drive firmware to
make sure that the alloclass on that disk didn't get changed to 24 wen you
changed the node name.
There is also a MSCP_ALLOCLASS parameter in SYSGEN but that is less likely
to be the culprit.
The allocation class is a mechanism to prevent like-named devices (i.e.
machines on a CI or DSSI each with a DxAxxx device) from confusing one
another.
On Mon, 2 Oct 2000, Chuck McManis wrote:
I know, I should ask info-vax. But I'm not
subscribed there :-(
I changed the nodename on my DSSI drive (looks like an HSC50 to the VAX)
and it still boots VMS but SYS$SYSDEVICE is set to $24$DIA264 not the
newer, more friendly SYSTEM$DIA0: I tried doing an autogen but that didn't
seem to change anything :-). Clues?
--Chuck
2 Oct
2 Oct
6:48 p.m.
On a somewhat related note, I went out and forked over
$100 for a true 5
port switch so that I can put my VLC cluster on a switch!
Cool! But, do you see any real benefit from this?
Now all I need is a console multiplexor.
Any idea's? This is something I *REALLY* need.
Zane
7:56 p.m.
At 08:48 PM 10/2/00 -0700, Zane wrote:
You bet, this "traffic" on the NI backbone doesn't interfere with each
other. So if one system is swapping on a cluster disk and another is just
doing telnet type access then they both "see" a full 10MBits of bandwidth.
The only time you get collisions is when two systems try to access the same
third party and the switch can often interleave those packets such that
there are way fewer collisions.
Well its "easy" to do in a powered box. A few of the CMOS switches, a few
connectors, and you're done. I even figured I could switch it remotely by
using the DTR line coming up to "toggle" the next system. Thus running
something like HyperTerm and doing disconnect/reconnect type operations
would cycle through each console. My issue is that I'm trying to do it all
passively and that leads to some questions about tying lines together
before you break contact. (and mechanical switches are so much harder to
control). My "worst" idea is to use a "wall wart" type supply to bring
power to the switch box, second worst is to run a couple of lines off the
supply in the top VLC. I suspect its too much current to uses the "phantom
power" trick on the RS232 port.
--Chuck
(Of course if I want to be anal I can run all the consoles into the
harmonica box off a CXYA16 in the 4000/200 and use that machine as a
console server)
On a somewhat
related note, I went out and forked over $100 for a true 5
port switch so that I can put my VLC cluster on a switch!
Cool! But, do you see any real benefit from this? Now all I need
is a console multiplexor.
Any idea's? This is something I *REALLY* need.
11:11 p.m.
New subject: Getting Grid to Go
I've played with a couple of my 1755 Grid laptops this week, not much fun.
Noises from the hard drive, then a hard drive failure message followed by
Password: which won't go away. The other one I "think" is setup to use a
video port as NOTHING happens at all on the screen (no char, no change in
contrast).
I downloaded the 1755setup file, but I don't know how to get the system to
boot from a floppy (plus I need more on the floppy than just the 1755setup
right?).
3 Oct
3 Oct
9:13 a.m.
You bet, this "traffic" on the NI backbone
doesn't interfere with each
other. So if one system is swapping on a cluster disk and another is just
doing telnet type access then they both "see" a full 10MBits of bandwidth.
The only time you get collisions is when two systems try to access the same
third party and the switch can often interleave those packets such that
there are way fewer collisions.
Hmmm, you've got me thinking I need to redo what's going into the 10/100
8-Port Switch, and what goes into the 10/100 8-Port Hub.
Now all I need is a console multiplexor.
Any idea's? This is something I *REALLY* need. (Of course if I want to be anal I can run all the
consoles into the
harmonica box off a CXYA16 in the 4000/200 and use that machine as a
console server)
Actually this is more or less the solution I was thinking of if I couldn't
find an off the shelf solution. Is there any console server software for
VMS? We'd been using Sparc 2's with ton's of serial ports at work, but now
are switching to PC's running Linux with ton's of ports. The downside of
this is the best system I can come up with for this at the moment would be
my MicroVAX 3, and I don't want to put that in my apartment running full
time! Guess I need a MV3100 with a bunch of ports.
Zane
| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator |
| healyzh(a)aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast |
| healyzh(a)holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
| Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, |
| and Zane's Computer Museum. |
| http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ |
4 Oct
4 Oct
8:10 a.m.
New subject: cluster stuff [was Re: Changing logicals on VMS?]
At 11:13 AM 10/3/00 -0700, you wrote:
Actually this is more or less the solution I was
thinking of (using a
vax) if I couldn't find an off the shelf solution. Is there any console
server software for VMS?
There isn't a VMS solution but that other OS (NetBSD) ...
--Chuck
11:59 a.m.
New subject: Console Servers (was: cluster stuff [was Re: Changing lo)
At 11:13 AM 10/3/00 -0700, you wrote:
Have you looked into doing Reverse LAT with a DECserver? I've heard it's
possible, but haven't tried. Don't think it's quite what you want anyway.
I'm aware of the UNIX solutions, I just don't have any multiport serial
cards for any of my UNIX boxes.
Zane
Actually this is more or less the solution I was
thinking of (using a
vax) if I couldn't find an off the shelf solution. Is there any console
server software for VMS?
There isn't a VMS solution but that other OS (NetBSD) ...
--Chuck
12:56 p.m.
New subject: Console Servers (was: cluster stuff [was Re: Changing lo)
I'm aware of the UNIX solutions, I just don't
have any multiport serial
cards for any of my UNIX boxes.
Zane
They're around... as a matter of fact if anyone on the list wants a
AST 4 port serial card contact me off list.
Bill
--
bpechter(a)monmouth.com | Microsoft: Where do you want to go today?
| Linux: Where do you want to go tomorrow?
| BSD: Are you guys coming, or what?
1:11 p.m.
New subject: Console Servers (was: cluster stuff [was Re: Changing lo)
Zane writes:
Have you looked into doing Reverse LAT with a
DECserver? I've heard it's
possible, but haven't tried. Don't think it's quite what you want anyway.
I've got several DECserver 200/MC boxes available for sale or trade. No
idea if they do reverse LAT (or, for that matter, normal forward LAT).
1:29 p.m.
New subject: Console Servers (was: cluster stuff [was Re: Changing lo)
Zane writes:
They should do at least normal LAT. I've not played with the one I've got,
but IIRC you've got to setup a VMS system to download the software to the
terminal server before you can actually do anything with it.
Been wanting to try this with that box specifically, but haven't had time to
even dig the box out of storage.
Zane
Have you looked into doing Reverse LAT with a
DECserver? I've heard it's
possible, but haven't tried. Don't think it's quite what you want anyway.
I've got several DECserver 200/MC boxes available for sale or trade. No
idea if they do reverse LAT (or, for that matter, normal forward LAT).
10:33 a.m.
"Zane H. Healy" wrote:
Actually this is more or less the solution I was
thinking of if I couldn't
find an off the shelf solution. Is there any console server software for
VMS? We'd been using Sparc 2's with ton's of serial ports at work, but now
are switching to PC's running Linux with ton's of ports. The downside of
this is the best system I can come up with for this at the moment would be
my MicroVAX 3, and I don't want to put that in my apartment running full
time! Guess I need a MV3100 with a bunch of ports.
You might consider getting a used terminal port server. One that supports
MOP of course. :-) You could put 1 terminal on the terminal server and
then 'telnet' to each port, or other machine or internet of whatever. :-)
--
Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry ncherry(a)home.net
http://members.home.net/ncherry (Text only)
http://meltingpot.fortunecity.com/lightsey/52 (Graphics)
http://linuxha.sourceforge.net/ (SourceForge)
14 Oct
14 Oct
6:55 p.m.
At 21:56 2/10/00 -0700, Chuck McManis wrote:
(Of course if I want to be anal I can run all the
consoles into the
harmonica box off a CXYA16 in the 4000/200 and use that machine as a
console server)
I would have thought a DECserver 200 would be the ideal box for this task.
In fact, I've just realized that it would solve a similar problem here at
home - I'll just have to go pick one up (and I know where I can probably
get one too...)
Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies(a)kerberos.davies.net.au
| "If God had wanted soccer played in the
| air, the sky would be painted green"
4 Oct
4 Oct
12:52 a.m.
New subject: console multiplexor
Now all I need
is a console multiplexor.
Any idea's? This is something I *REALLY* need. 
4:37 a.m.
New subject: console multiplexor
At 01:52 04-10-2000 -0800, Mike Ford wrote:
Want to explain a bit more what it really is, what might be printed on its
box etc.?
I know I have boxes called multiplexors, but no clue on the console bit.
Ummm... I use an eight-port stat-MUX in the garage, and a matching one in
my workspace, to bring the console ports for the router and various Unix
boxen into a dumb terminal and multi-port switchbox.
Could this be what's being referred to?
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies
http://www.bluefeathertech.com // E-mail: kyrrin(a)bluefeathertech.com
Amateur Radio: WD6EOS since Dec. '77 (Extra class as of June-2K)
"I'll get a life when someone demonstrates to me that it would be
superior to what I have now..." (Gym Z. Quirk, aka Taki Kogoma).
Now all I need is a console multiplexor.
Any idea's? This is something I *REALLY* need.
7:53 a.m.
New subject: console multiplexor
At 01:52 AM 10/4/00 -0800, Mike Ford wrote:
Want to explain a bit more what it really is, what might be printed on its
box etc.?
Well in this case I was talking about a multiplexor for DEC RS-423
consoles. I suppose this would have some number of MMJ ports (no doubt an
odd number :-) and one would go to one's "console" and the others to the
other machines you are controlling.
Clearly the simplest solution is a 6PnT rotary switch, some cables wired up
with MMJ plugs crimped on their ends. I'm planning to build one of these as
I have all the parts and that will get the console going on the micro-cluster.
Somewhat more clever is to use a CMOS switch and some push buttons with
LEDs and get the whole thing to be 'lectronic. You could have an LED
indicate which console was selected and another to show traffic on that
console. If I get ambitious this is the first one I'll actually build
(skipping #1 above).
However, if you're willing to be really clever then you can do much better
than this. I've got a nice color terminal (the Link MC70 although its color
is a bit unstable these days :-() or I could use a DEC VT340 (probably the
actual version for display) and you could, with a bit of smarts and some
buffering take output from the RS-423 lines, and prior to forwarding them
on to the terminal you could inject ANSI color codes on/off. This would
make the output from each console a different color. (keeping them straight
is of course the challenge) If you are really clever you don't allow one
console to interrupt another mid-line either. I've got an old single board
Z80 system that could probably do this, or I could wimp out and use a CPLD
feeding a Scenix chip.
Anyway, all that aside. If you come across a box that has a selector switch
on the front and a row of MMJ's on the back, that is probably what I'm
looking for :-)
--Chuck
Now all I need is a console multiplexor.
Any idea's? This is something I *REALLY* need. 
2 Oct
2 Oct
7:53 p.m.
Sorry, read your message backwards apparently....
I would look into sys$system:writeboot.exe. It hardcodes the device name
and location on disk of the minimal boot files. Your location on disk is
the same so theboot worked but I wonder if the incorrect device name is
lousing your logicals.
You can use writeboot to reset things correctly.
On Mon, 2 Oct 2000, Chuck McManis wrote:
Hi Paul,
This isn't an allocation class issue. Its something I brought on myself,
and for that am paying the price :-). My true question is whether or not
I'm going to be stuck re-installing VMS, however given the way VMS works
I'm sure there is some voodoo to fix it.
I got in this mess as follows:
I installed an RF72 drive into my 4000/200 and proceeded to do a 'sho dev'
on it. It showed up on the DSSI bus as $24$DIA264:
I then installed VMS 7.2 on to this drive, followed by a bunch of layered
products.
Then I read in the KA660 technical manual how to "talk" to the DSSI drives,
(which is very arcane using the KFQSA but a snap on the KA640 and KA660)
and proceeded to tell the drive to call itself node SYSTEM and unit 0.
This worked fine, and I noted that I could now boot the system by
specifying DIA0: rather than DIA264: (which I never could remember anyway).
Then I went to install another layered product. That installation failed
because it couldn't find a file is was expecting in
SYS$SYSDEVICE:[SY0.SYSTEMP] (or something very similar). So I did a dir
SYS$SYSDEVICE: and sure enough there was nothing there, then I did a SHOW
LOGICALS and from there discovered that SYS$SYSDEVICE: was defined to be
$24$DIA264: (the original name of the DSSI drive)
Now I could name it back again. But I'd rather tell VMS where the SYSDEVICE
now sits (for all the system, like on a permanent basis). If I 'define' it,
it changes for the current process but doesn't change universally and more
importantly other things are stuck that way to.
Nothing is SYSTARTUP_VMS.COM defines these so they must be in a parameter
database somewhere else. That is where I'm looking now ...
On a somewhat related note, I went out and forked over $100 for a true 5
port switch so that I can put my VLC cluster on a switch! Now all I need is
a console multiplexor.
--Chuck
At 08:35 PM 10/2/00 -0500, you wrote:
The system$dia0 isn't especially newer or
better. It is the name of the
disk with the allocation class set to 0. Check your drive firmware to
make sure that the alloclass on that disk didn't get changed to 24 wen you
changed the node name.
There is also a MSCP_ALLOCLASS parameter in SYSGEN but that is less likely
to be the culprit.
The allocation class is a mechanism to prevent like-named devices (i.e.
machines on a CI or DSSI each with a DxAxxx device) from confusing one
another.
On Mon, 2 Oct 2000, Chuck McManis wrote:
I know, I should ask info-vax. But I'm not
subscribed there :-(
I changed the nodename on my DSSI drive (looks like an HSC50 to the VAX)
and it still boots VMS but SYS$SYSDEVICE is set to $24$DIA264 not the
newer, more friendly SYSTEM$DIA0: I tried doing an autogen but that didn't
seem to change anything :-). Clues?
--Chuck
8683
days inactive
8695
days old
15 comments
9 participants
participants (9)
-
cmcmanis＠mcmanis.com -
eric＠brouhaha.com -
healyzh＠aracnet.com -
Huw.Davies＠kerberos.davies.net.au -
kyrrin＠bluefeathertech.com -
mikeford＠socal.rr.com -
ncherry＠home.net -
pechter＠pechter.dyndns.org -
thompson＠mail.athenet.net