1 Jan
2022
1 Jan
'22
12:44 p.m.
At 07:50 PM 1/01/2022 +0000, you wrote:
True.
But if you're trying to get > $5000 for something, it doesn't seem unreasonable
to suggest that investing a bit in getting an extension cord run to the location of the
machine would be a good idea. The absence of that effort makes me wonder if the owner
knows what the outcome of such a test would be and doesn't want to have to report it.
But what would that accomplish? I think testing something like this requires a lot more
effort than plugging it in and hitting the circuit breaker. To test this to see if some
ODT comes up probably requires quite a lot of effort (locate a terminal/pc, wire it up,
figure out where to plug it into the 780, etc. If this guy is a bulk dealer I would be
surprised if he has the knowledge to do anything more than a power test which, again,
would not be very useful and could even be detrimental.
Exactly. The machine has a 3-phase 208/240V plug, they don't have such an outlet.
Their efforts stop right there.
But you're all focussed on that, and missing another important detail. The machine has
a liquid cooling system.
Some of the hoses look like they are Tygon, in the age-decayed brittle stage. Touch them
and they crumble away.
Running the machine without cooling would utterly wreck it. Even if they solved the mains
power problem,
they would be very unwise to actually power it up.
The 'installation and configuration' manual for this machine would be huge. They
don't have it.
Plus, it's a mainframe. Not even any blinkenlights. Without setting it up as a
complete system
with everything interconnected properly, how would you even know it was running
correctly?
Plus you can safely assume at least some of the system unit interconnect cables are
missing.
Potentially weeks, even months of restoration work for a buyer, before even daring to
apply power.
Then if there's anything wrong in the electronics, good luck diagnosing and getting
spare parts.
Considering the uncertainties plus high transport, restoration, operating and manhour
costs, who'd
buy it? A museum perhaps? Or someone wanting a 'static display object' never
intending to run it.
Guy
1 Jan
1 Jan
1:19 p.m.
On Sat, Jan 1, 2022 at 12:47 PM Guy Dunphy via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
wrote:
At 07:50 PM 1/01/2022 +0000, you wrote:
True. But if you're trying to get > $5000 for something, it doesn't seem
unreasonable to suggest that investing a bit in getting an extension cord
run to the location of the machine would be a good idea. The absence of
that effort makes me wonder if the owner knows what the outcome of such a
test would be and doesn't want to have to report it.
But what would that accomplish? I think testing something like this requires a lot
more effort than plugging it in and hitting the circuit
breaker. To test this to see if some ODT comes up probably requires quite a
lot of effort (locate a terminal/pc, wire it up, figure out where to plug
it into the 780, etc. If this guy is a bulk dealer I would be surprised if
he has the knowledge to do anything more than a power test which, again,
would not be very useful and could even be detrimental.
Exactly. The machine has a 3-phase 208/240V plug, they don't have such an
outlet. Their efforts stop right there.
But you're all focussed on that, and missing another important detail. The
machine has a liquid cooling system.
Some of the hoses look like they are Tygon, in the age-decayed brittle
stage. Touch them and they crumble away.
Running the machine without cooling would utterly wreck it. Even if they
solved the mains power problem,
they would be very unwise to actually power it up.
For clarification -- the 11/780 is not liquid cooled. The seller mixed up
some photos between the TU77 listing and the 11/780 listing (the TU77
listing has photos of the 11/780's backplane in it just to make things more
fun). Agreed on all other counts, though, powering this thing up blindly
is a dumb idea.
- Josh
1:30 p.m.
On Jan 1, 2022, at 4:19 PM, Josh Dersch via cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
On Sat, Jan 1, 2022 at 12:47 PM Guy Dunphy via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
wrote:
Correct. Did DEC make any liquid cooled machines? There was a large VAX which was going
to be, code-named Aquarius, but I think they canceled that one and redid the design to be
air-cooled, codename Aridus. That's the VAX 9000 if I remember right.
paul
...
But you're all focussed on that, and missing another important detail. The
machine has a liquid cooling system.
...
For clarification -- the 11/780 is not liquid cooled. 
2:33 p.m.
On 1/1/22 3:19 PM, Josh Dersch via cctalk wrote:
For clarification -- the 11/780 is not liquid cooled. The seller mixed up
some photos between the TU77 listing and the 11/780 listing (the TU77
listing has photos of the 11/780's backplane in it just to make things more
fun). Agreed on all other counts, though, powering this thing up blindly
is a dumb idea.
Right!? The cooling gear on the back of the TU77 is to cool
the bearing air, to keep from melting the tape.? We had
nasty tape sticking when running backups with our original
TU77.? DEC told us about the problem and advised to open the
cabinet back door when running the drive for long periods.?
Then, they installed a mod kit with the extra tubes and
radiator and additional fans, and that solved the issue.
The VAX 11/780 is most certainly air-cooled, but does have
impressive centrifugal blowers shooting vast quantities of
air out the back.? Watch out, women with short skirts, when
you walk behind the CPU!
DEC apparently designed a liquid-cooled VAX code-named
Aquarius, but it was never fielded.? A later air-cooled
version was called Aridus.
Jon
2:42 p.m.
On 1/1/22 2:44 PM, Guy Dunphy via cctalk wrote:
>
>
> The 'installation and configuration' manual for this machine would be huge.
They don't have it.
On bitsavers.? I just paged through it to check power
consumption.
>
> Plus, it's a mainframe. Not even any blinkenlights. Without setting it up as a
complete system
> with everything interconnected properly, how would you even know it was running
correctly?
Well, you need to hook up a serial console terminal, and the
console floppy needs to work.? That has power-up self tests,
which will be quite helpful in the beginning.? Then, there
would be a diagnostic tape that could run further detailed
tests.
> Plus you can safely assume at least some of the
system unit interconnect cables are missing.
These should all be in the manuals on
bitsavers.? I'm pretty
sure they have the complete /780 print set, which was 11x17"
and about 2" thick!
>
> Potentially weeks, even months of restoration work for a buyer, before even daring to
apply power.
> Then if there's anything wrong in the electronics, good luck diagnosing and
getting spare parts.
Yes, getting a copy of the diags tape would be hugely
helpful, but probably somebody has that.
Jon
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days inactive
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