18 Sep
1998
18 Sep
'98
2:57 p.m.
But what about the metal parts? Those aren't any cheaper...but you're
giving me ideas. I saw a show once on CNN about a guy at Lawrence
Livermore who is building robot bugs out of computer parts. They are
powered by neural networks. He can even pull off a couple of legs
and they'll still work. BTW, where do all of those researchers get
neural network chips?
I remember when I was a kid I was dreaming about building robots and
using
computers to control them, but all the parts and
expecially the
computers
were too expensive. I had one design based on a //c,
but this was
around
1986 when the //c was still relatively new.
Today, a kid could go to a thrift store and buy all manner of
salvageable
computer parts, including printers (to get the steppers
and gears out
of),
disk drives (for the motors and gear shafts) and of
course the
computers
to control their projects with easy to use languages
built in, all for
just a few bucks.
An entire robot could be built for under $100 with thrift store and
flea
market parts. It could include a fairly powerful and
easy to program
"brain" in the form of a Commodore 64, a Tandy CoCo, even an Apple ][
board. This stuff is everywhere and extremely simple to hack.
Man, I wish I was a kid again!
Sam Alternate e-mail:
dastar(a)siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.
September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
[Last web site update: 09/12/98]
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18 Sep
18 Sep
3:16 p.m.
New subject: [getting off topic, sort of] Re: Kids these days
Max Eskin wrote:
But what about the metal parts? Those aren't any
cheaper...but you're
giving me ideas.
There is an incomplete description about how to build a robot out of a
3.5" floppy drive. To qualify as a "classic" computer I'm guessing
that
one should use at least a 5.25" floppy and perhaps a 8" floppy. The
"metal" in that case is the drive structure itself.
I saw a show once on CNN about a guy at Lawrence
Livermore who is building robot bugs out of computer parts.
Actually that is Mark Tilden and he is working at Sandia National
Laboratory.
They are
powered by neural networks. He can even pull off a couple of legs
and they'll still work.
Actually, Mark call's them 'Nervous Nets' and they are something he
invented. They use about $0.50 in parts.
BTW, where do all of those researchers get
neural network chips?
You presume complexity, they are nothing but a couple of op-amps biased
into a non-linear feedback loop. Stop thinking digital, think analog,
its cheaper.
--Chuck
8:57 p.m.
New subject: [getting off topic, sort of] Re: Kids these days
On Fri, 18 Sep 1998 17:16:44 -0700, <cmcmanis(a)freegate.com> wrote:
You presume complexity, they are nothing but a couple
of op-amps biased
into a non-linear feedback loop. Stop thinking digital, think analog,
its cheaper.
Actually, I don't think most of them are even op-amps. Just things
like 74C14's and the like.
-Bill Richman
bill_r(a)inetnebr.com
http://incolor.inetnebr.com/bill_r
(Home of the COSMAC Elf
microcomputer simulator!)
3:16 p.m.
On Fri, 18 Sep 1998, Max Eskin wrote:
But what about the metal parts? Those aren't any
cheaper...but you're
Metal can be found very cheaply at the big home stores. Also, look
around! Scrap yards, flea markets, etc. You can find many sources for
the raw materials for the framework.
Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.
September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
[Last web site update: 09/12/98]
11:13 p.m.
Sam Ismail wrote:
On Fri, 18 Sep 1998, Max Eskin wrote:
There's also the politically incorrect concept of grabbing metal out
of the recycle bins. (Anybody else here ever read a kids novel from
the 60s _Andy Buckram's Tin Men_? I'll admit to having read it at
just under the target age bracket when it first hit my local public
library.)
--
Ward Griffiths <mailto:gram@cnct.com> <http://www.cnct.com/home/gram/>
When I was crossing the border into Canada, they asked me if I had any
firearms with me. I said "Well, what do you need?" -- Steven Wright
But what about the metal parts? Those aren't
any cheaper...but you're
Metal can be found very cheaply at the big home stores. Also, look
around! Scrap yards, flea markets, etc. You can find many sources for
the raw materials for the framework. 
19 Sep
19 Sep
10:34 a.m.
Old bed rails make ideal supports, just grind off the rivets and you have
lightweight but durable angle iron for use as the skeleton, usually free of charge
(I used to find them by trash cans all the time in Chicago). Sheet metal to cover
it can be gotten from heating and AC shops when they cut off parts of fulllength
ducts or when they gut old systems and bring the old ducts back. Hoods of cars that
are nearly flat are also good for sheetmetal, and cheap.
Sam Ismail wrote:
On Fri, 18 Sep 1998, Max Eskin wrote:
--
___________________________________________________
Russ Blakeman, aka "Pooter Fixer"
Email: rhblake(a)bbtel.com or rhblake(a)bigfoot.com
Website: http://members.xoom.com/pooterfixer/
___________________________________________________
But what about the metal parts? Those aren't
any cheaper...but you're
Metal can be found very cheaply at the big home stores. Also, look
around! Scrap yards, flea markets, etc. You can find many sources for
the raw materials for the framework.
Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.
September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
[Last web site update: 09/12/98] 
18 Sep
18 Sep
3:46 p.m.
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8:50 p.m.
On Fri, 18 Sep 1998 16:57:13 PDT, Max Eskin wrote:
But what about the metal parts? Those aren't any
cheaper...but you're
giving me ideas. I saw a show once on CNN about a guy at Lawrence
Livermore who is building robot bugs out of computer parts. They are
powered by neural networks. He can even pull off a couple of legs
and they'll still work. BTW, where do all of those researchers get
neural network chips?
>
I believe you're talking about Mark Tilden and his robots. He posts
to another mailing list I'm on. He builds all kinds of small robots
without using any microprocessors at all; just some simple logic chips
and such. They're not even used in the sense they're designed to be;
they're wired to oscillate in useful patterns (generating a walking
gait, for example). You can drive small motors with them, and the
feedback (in the form of increased motor loading) will cause the gait
to change. They're not really "neural net" chips (although you can
buy those several places quite readily); they're called "nervous nets"
- I guess because they act "nervous". It's pretty wild stuff. Check
out Al Miller's site with a good introduction to "nervous nets" and
walkers at www.golden.net/~amiller/beam.htm, or see more about the
BEAM philosophy as well as some kits at www.solarbotics.com.
The metal parts aren't that tough if you want to build something
bigger. Just get some aluminum angle, a hacksaw, and some bolts and
nuts, and you can build pretty much any shape you want.
-Bill Richman
bill_r(a)inetnebr.com
http://incolor.inetnebr.com/bill_r
(Home of the COSMAC Elf
microcomputer simulator!)
9433
days inactive
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ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk -
bill_r＠inetnebr.com -
cmcmanis＠freegate.com -
dastar＠ncal.verio.com -
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