29 May
2015
29 May
'15
1:57 p.m.
From: tony duell <ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk>
I meant I'm not using any weird technology in *my* designs. Sorry if that
wasn't clear. I'm not particularly concerned about what the LA is built
from.
KJ
- No weird
technologies in the design (all TTL/CMOS logic)
That is going to be a problem. AFAIK no 'serious' logic analyser was all
TTL or (high speed) CMOS. If you are looking for one that is mostly/all
standard logic, I think you have to consider ECL here. 
29 May
29 May
2:13 p.m.
I've got to go with Alexandre on this, look for an HP 16500B or 16500C or
if you want something smaller, an HP 166x or 1670x. You should be able to
find a nice one in good shape with all the pod cables, break-outs,
"grippies" ... a "full backpack" for a few hundred dollars or less.
An HP 165x in nice working shape with all accessories might be worth about
cost of shipping to me, that's it; I wouldn't pay much for it and I
wouldn't mess with anything much older ...
Just for reference, I paid exactly $99 for my HP 1662 and it was in great
shape with all accessories; the front panel rotary selector was broken off
but it came with an HP-HIL mouse so no biggie...
I assembled my working 16500B out of two 16500B units, one basically dead
but full of cards and accessories, the other, an empty chassis in great
condition with no cards or accessories. I think I paid $99 for each unit
and with a few little upgrades ... deep-memory LA card and a pattern
generator I have about $300 in it. That gives me 68 channels 1 MSa 100
state/500 timing logic analyzer, 16 channels 1 GHz timing-only
shallow-memory, a 50 MHz pattern generator with 12 data bits, 3 strobe, and
a two-channel 100 MHz DSO. Maybe I got a little lucky with that deal but
not impossible to replicate ... you can do similar for $300-500.
I've looked at the Tek analyzers of similar vintage to the HP 1660
series/HP 16500 and to me, they seem more limited and harder to use than
the HP analyzers, IMO ... while I love Tek for scopes and other
miscellaneous instruments, I think HP is king in logic analyzers ...
You will also find many many many completely obsolete and fairly limited
analyzers being sold for way more than they are worth ... don't waste your
time and money. You can get a nicer instrument than you might originally
think, for way less money than you may have originally considered. Logic
analyzers, I think you really need to know the various product lines very
well to get an outstanding deal ... keep the model numbers in mind and just
watch eBay ... shouldn't take long for something to turn up that will do
the job ... I see great deals on analyzers there on almost a weekly basis.
I think the logic analyzer is a great tool especially when playing around
with digital systems ... they can do things for you that you may have
thought impossible. Wish I had one on hand when I was doing my senior
design project for the BSEE! :O
Best,
Sean
On Fri, May 29, 2015 at 1:57 PM, Ken Seefried <seefriek at gmail.com> wrote:
From: tony duell <ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk>
I meant I'm not using any weird technology in *my* designs. Sorry if that
wasn't clear. I'm not particularly concerned about what the LA is built
from.
KJ
- No
weird technologies in the design (all TTL/CMOS logic)
That is going to be a problem. AFAIK no 'serious' logic analyser was all
TTL or (high speed) CMOS. If you are looking for one that is mostly/all
standard logic, I think you have to consider ECL here. 
3:32 p.m.
I'm quite fond of my HP 1630G. It's quite fast enough for the sort of
machines I'm logic-analyzing. :-)
On Fri, May 29, 2015 at 5:57 PM, Ken Seefried <seefriek at gmail.com> wrote:
From: tony duell <ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk>
I meant I'm not using any weird technology in *my* designs. Sorry if that
wasn't clear. I'm not particularly concerned about what the LA is built
from.
KJ
--
Ian S. King, MSIS, MSCS, Ph.D. Candidate
The Information School <http://ischool.uw.edu>
Archivist, Voices From the Rwanda Tribunal <http://tribunalvoices.org>
Value Sensitive Design Research Lab <http://vsdesign.org>
University of Washington
There is an old Vulcan saying: "Only Nixon could go to China."
- No
weird technologies in the design (all TTL/CMOS logic)
That is going to be a problem. AFAIK no 'serious' logic analyser was all
TTL or (high speed) CMOS. If you are looking for one that is mostly/all
standard logic, I think you have to consider ECL here. 
3:39 p.m.
I'm quite fond of my HP 1630G. It's quite fast enough for the sort of
machines I'm logic-analyzing. :-)
Ditto. Well, I can't remember which model I was given, it's the one that's
maxed out with
'state' channels, but only the basic 'timing' channels.
The manual is excellent (and available, AFAIK, from whoever Agilent became). The only
schematic
you don't get is that of the video monitor -- and be warned that is a bit
unconvenitonal as the scan
lines are vertical (across the short dimension of the CRT). But you do get schematics of
the CPU board,
state and timing boards, PSU, etc.
One practical thing I like is that the pod cables are 'captive' (held on by a
screw-on metal cover plate) so
the pods are less likely to go walkabout (you've not seen my workshop :-))
As I mentioned earlier, it has both HPIB and HPIL interfaces. In theory you can control
this thing from
an HP71B handheld (or an HP41 calculator?)
An HP1631 would be fun (it has a DSO board at the bottom as well as the LA functions).
-tony
4:17 p.m.
That's good to hear.
2 weeks ago I got an HP1630D and last week a 1631.
Both came with pods, but the first one did not have the "plug"
with the test leads, and the second one did. So I bought the second
one too for the plugs with leads. The 1631 looks quite identical to
the 1630, but the 1631 has additionally 2 analog inputs. Not sure
whether I will need them.
From memory, back in the 80-ties I used the HP64000
development
station. Additional boards can be put in the card cage that will give
you a 6800, 6809, 68000, 68020 etc, emulator pod. I am pretty sure
there are emulation boards with pods for almost any CPU of that
era. Intel CPUs too (yuk). State and timing boards are also available
for the 64000. The 64000 is too expensive when offered ... Recently
there was one on eBay for a few 100, but it was defective :-/
I'd love to get one. Nostalgia I guess, but they were great.
- Henk
-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
From: Ian S. King
Sent: Friday, May 29, 2015 9:32 PM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: Looking for the Tek 465 of Logic Analysers
I'm quite fond of my HP 1630G. It's quite fast enough for the sort of
machines I'm logic-analyzing. :-)
On Fri, May 29, 2015 at 5:57 PM, Ken Seefried <seefriek at gmail.com> wrote:
From: tony duell <ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk>
I meant I'm not using any weird technology in *my* designs. Sorry if that
wasn't clear. I'm not particularly concerned about what the LA is built
from.
KJ
--
Ian S. King, MSIS, MSCS, Ph.D. Candidate
The Information School <http://ischool.uw.edu>
Archivist, Voices From the Rwanda Tribunal <http://tribunalvoices.org>
Value Sensitive Design Research Lab <http://vsdesign.org>
University of Washington
There is an old Vulcan saying: "Only Nixon could go to China."
- No
weird technologies in the design (all TTL/CMOS logic)
That is going to be a problem. AFAIK no 'serious' logic analyser was all
TTL or (high speed) CMOS. If you are looking for one that is mostly/all
standard logic, I think you have to consider ECL here.
4:28 p.m.
That's good to hear.
2 weeks ago I got an HP1630D and last week a 1631.
Both came with pods, but the first one did not have the "plug"
with the test leads, and the second one did. So I bought the second
The actual pods, which are plugged into the back of the instrument are
quite complex and have a ceramic hybrid circuit inside. Not the sort of thing
to attempt to replicate. The input to the pod is a pin header with an
odd spacing. The lead from that to the grabber clips is just wires, so something
could be kludged up
one too for the plugs with leads. The 1631 looks quite
identical to
the 1630, but the 1631 has additionally 2 analog inputs. Not sure
whether I will need them.
They are much the same instrument -- I think the same manual covers both, Most of the
boards are the same (there may well be different firmware on the CPU board, but I think
that is the only change). The 1631 has an extra PCB at the bottom which contains the
custom
input and ADC circuitry to make it act as a digital storage 'scope too.
-tony
3342
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participants (5)
-
ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk -
henk.gooijen＠hotmail.com -
isking＠uw.edu -
scaron＠umich.edu -
seefriek＠gmail.com