4 Nov
2002
4 Nov
'02
6:33 a.m.
Mike (Kenzie?) asked:
> If I connect a VT-100 to COMM can I still access
the CPU's?
Tony (err... I guess Dr. Duell, unless I get that $%^& Stylewriter working
again... :-) ) replied:
Alas not. It's an MS-DOS and CP/M machine, and
doesn't support remote
terminals.
Rainbow VENIX was rumored to exist.
1) Anybody know more than that about it?
2) If so, did it support remote terminals? Consoles?
UCSD P-system is on ftp.update.uu.se (for anonymous ftp)
Same questions as above?
- Mark
4 Nov
4 Nov
7:49 a.m.
>> If I connect a VT-100 to COMM can I still
access the CPU's?
>Alas not. It's an MS-DOS and CP/M machine, and doesn't support remote
>terminals.
It doesn't support the MS-DOS CTTY command?
Admittedly, CTTY is an unsatisfactory solution, since it will only work
for the OS itself and software that is "well behaved" in following the API
guidelines. That means that you can run the OS, and zilch commercial
software.
2:04 p.m.
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3:02 p.m.
> > >> If I connect a VT-100 to COMM can I
still access the CPU's?
> > >Alas not. It's an MS-DOS and CP/M machine, and doesn't support
remote
> > >terminals.
> It doesn't support the MS-DOS CTTY command?
On Tue, 5 Nov 2002, Tony Duell wrote:
I am not sure... It may well do.
But you'd have to issue the CTTY command from the standad console (here
the LK201/VR201). So if you don't have the standard keyboard, it's not
going to be a lot of use.
The way to handle that is to put the CTTY command into AUTOEXEC.BAT
[and YES, I can put stuff into AUTOEXEC.BAT of a Rainbow diskette without
first having a Rainbow keyboard, (or even machine)]
But too much software bypasses the OS for I/O, so it is admittedly NOT an
"acceptable" solution. I gave up early on with trying to use it on PCs.
Even on the Micromint MPX16, which was designed for a serial terminal,
virtually every user eventually bough the accessory add-in board for use
with a PC keyboard and video board.
I must admit I generally run CP/M on my 'Bow, and
I don't think that does
have any equivalent to CTTY.
A much preferable way to use it.
5 Nov
5 Nov
4:30 p.m.
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7 Nov
7 Nov
3:12 p.m.
On Wed, 6 Nov 2002, Tony Duell wrote:
Then all you have to do is hook up a composite mono
monitor (I refuse to
believe there are classic computer enthusiasts who don't have one of
these) and you're in business.
*raises hand*
I do not have a composite mono monitor. 8-)
Peace... Sridhar
P.S. But I have *plenty* of LK201's.
4 Nov
4 Nov
1:59 p.m.
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2:20 p.m.
New subject: Faulty capacitors.
Someone passed this along to me today. It's a current news item, but I
though it at least tangentially relevant to classiccmp folks. You'll
get a bang out of this one--quite literally:
-> In September 2002, reports started to surface in the United States
-> among brand name computer manufacturers that there were problems
-> with low-ESR aluminum capacitors produced in Taiwan. Apparently, a
-> poor-quality, water-based electrolyte had been supplied to multiple
-> manufacturers of low-ESR aluminum electrolytic capacitors in
-> Taiwan. Our intelligence sources in Taiwan later confirmed that as
-> many as eleven manufacturers of low-ESR aluminum capacitors in
-> Taiwan might have been exposed to the poor electrolyte. The
-> electrolyte, which is a locally produced knock-off of the Japanese
-> P-50 type water-based system, was produced without the proper
-> additives required to stave off excess hydrogen gassing. Consequently,
-> aluminum capacitors produced with the P-50 knock-off tend to fail
-> catastrophically, by blowing open the rubber seal and leaking liquid
-> electrolyte on the printed circuit board. These failures reportedly
-> occur at half the rated lifetime of the components.
http://www.ttiinc.com/MarketEye/zogbi_on_passives_20021014.asp
ObClassicCmp: What are the expected lifespans of various capacitor
types? I don't have any truly ancient systems, but some of them are
coming up on the 20 yr mark. When should I look into replacing the
old caps?
-brian.
2:41 p.m.
New subject: Faulty capacitors.
--- Brian Chase <vaxzilla(a)jarai.org> wrote:
Someone passed this along to me today. It's a
current news item, but I
though it at least tangentially relevant to classiccmp folks. You'll
get a bang out of this one--quite literally:
-> In September 2002, reports started to surface in the United States
-> among brand name computer manufacturers that there were problems
-> with low-ESR aluminum capacitors produced in Taiwan...
I have seen a couple of motherboards that were probably victims of
this phenomemon. I picked up a couple of mini-ATX boxen from a local
video store that flirted with being a gamer center. 80% of the caps
on the motherboard had popped. There were no other obvious signs of
damage as one might expect from a simple overvoltage problem (no
odor, no damaged traces, no heat damage, etc.).
The boards were of sufficiently low quality that it wasn't worth
the effort to secure replacement caps at retail prices. Some of
them obviously didn't matter as to the exact capacitance (decoupling
caps), others, in the onboard voltage regulator area, probably did
matter.
Interesting to learn of a cause some months later, though.
-ethan
__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now
http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/
4:56 p.m.
New subject: Faulty capacitors.
I work at a VAR that assembles our own white box clones. We have had a
failure rate of almost 15% of Shuttle AV11 motherboards. Every example
has popped or leaking caps. These boards were installed in late 2000
and the first half of 2001. The first symptom is random and repeated
reboots. We had switched to AOpen motherboards at the beginning of
this year and have had no other failures. However, we have around 500
of the AV11's out in the field. AV22 and AV18 Shuttle's don't appear to
have problems.
Ethan Dicks wrote:
I have seen a couple of motherboards that were probably
victims of
this phenomemon. I picked up a couple of mini-ATX boxen from a local
video store that flirted with being a gamer center. 80% of the caps
on the motherboard had popped. There were no other obvious signs of
damage as one might expect from a simple overvoltage problem (no
odor, no damaged traces, no heat damage, etc.).
The boards were of sufficiently low quality that it wasn't worth
the effort to secure replacement caps at retail prices. Some of
them obviously didn't matter as to the exact capacitance (decoupling
caps), others, in the onboard voltage regulator area, probably did
matter.
Interesting to learn of a cause some months later, though.
-ethan
__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now
http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/
--
http://webpages.charter.net/jrice54/classiccomp2.html
5:02 p.m.
New subject: Faulty capacitors.
The article I read on this subject was fairly alarming
- the way business works these days, most of the
capacitor electrolyte came from one company that
supplied many different cap manufacturers in Taiwan,
good, bad and indifferent. This may affect a lot more
than PC's. Like, every piece of electronics made
recently in the Far East with a switching power
supply.
--- Ethan Dicks <erd_6502(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
--- Brian Chase <vaxzilla(a)jarai.org> wrote:
__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now
http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/
Someone passed this along to me today. It's
a
current news item, but I
though it at least tangentially relevant to
classiccmp folks. You'll
get a bang out of this one--quite literally:
-> In September 2002, reports started to surface
in the United States
-> among brand name computer manufacturers
that
there were problems
-> with low-ESR aluminum capacitors produced
in
Taiwan...
I have seen a couple of motherboards that were
probably victims of
this phenomemon. I picked up a couple of mini-ATX
boxen from a local
video store that flirted with being a gamer center.
80% of the caps
on the motherboard had popped. There were no other
obvious signs of
damage as one might expect from a simple overvoltage
problem (no
odor, no damaged traces, no heat damage, etc.).
The boards were of sufficiently low quality that it
wasn't worth
the effort to secure replacement caps at retail
prices. Some of
them obviously didn't matter as to the exact
capacitance (decoupling
caps), others, in the onboard voltage regulator
area, probably did
matter.
Interesting to learn of a cause some months later,
though.
-ethan
__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now
http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/
5 Nov
5 Nov
4:57 p.m.
New subject: Faulty capacitors.
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6 Nov
6 Nov
2:20 a.m.
New subject: Faulty capacitors.
It not so much the cost of the caps but also the cost of labor to
replace them. With the cost of a ATX motherboard for a P4 with intel
chipset and onboard intel lan, sound and video running around $70.00,
it's not economically sound to have a tech spend 30 minutes to replace
a $10.00 worth of caps. The company charges $130 per hour for my time,
so 30 minutes to replace the caps, parts cost and checkout time after
repair makes it too expensive an ordeal. The combined time and parts
cost is a lot higher than simply replacing the board.
A lot of the boards that have failed in our boxes have also had trace
damage from corrosive electrolyte eating away the copper, but a few have
shorted hard enough to blow the voltage regulators completely off the
board.
James
Tony Duell wrote:
--
http://webpages.charter.net/jrice54/classiccomp2.html
I have seen a
couple of motherboards that were probably victims of
this phenomemon. I picked up a couple of mini-ATX boxen from a local
video store that flirted with being a gamer center. 80% of the caps
on the motherboard had popped. There were no other obvious signs of
damage as one might expect from a simple overvoltage problem (no
odor, no damaged traces, no heat damage, etc.).
The boards were of sufficiently low quality that it wasn't worth
the effort to secure replacement caps at retail prices. Some of
I don't know how many capapcitors there were on each board, but
considering you'd probably get most of them for <$0.50 each at 1-off
prices, they must have been _very_ poor motherboards...
them obviously didn't matter as to the exact
capacitance (decoupling
caps), others, in the onboard voltage regulator area, probably did
matter.
I doubt it. Electrolytics are rarely used if the value is critical (the
tolerance is pretty wide on such components).
-tony
4 Nov
4 Nov
4:01 p.m.
New subject: Faulty capacitors.
On Mon, 4 Nov 2002, Brian Chase wrote:
-> In September 2002, reports started to surface
in the United States
-> among brand name computer manufacturers that there were problems
-> with low-ESR aluminum capacitors produced in Taiwan. Apparently, a
-> poor-quality, water-based electrolyte had been supplied to multiple
-> manufacturers of low-ESR aluminum electrolytic capacitors in
-> Taiwan. Our intelligence sources in Taiwan later confirmed that as
This has impacted things other than commodity PC equiment. www.dsm.org
(dedicated diamond star motors vehicles) has/d a section on do it yourself
replacement of capacitors on the engine control computer of the Eagle
Talon/Mitsubishi Eclipse/Plymouth Laser twins. Appears to be essentially
the same problem.
--
5 Nov
5 Nov
8:07 a.m.
New subject: Faulty capacitors.
Hi,
Brian Chase <vaxzilla(a)jarai.org> said:
Someone passed this along to me today. It's a
current news item, but I
though it at least tangentially relevant to classiccmp folks. You'll
get a bang out of this one--quite literally:
-> In September 2002, reports started to surface in the United States
-> among brand name computer manufacturers that there were problems
-> with low-ESR aluminum capacitors produced in Taiwan. Apparently, a
-> poor-quality, water-based electrolyte had been supplied to multiple
-> manufacturers of low-ESR aluminum electrolytic capacitors in
-> Taiwan. Our intelligence sources in Taiwan later confirmed that as
-> many as eleven manufacturers of low-ESR aluminum capacitors in
-> Taiwan might have been exposed to the poor electrolyte.
[snip]
ObClassicCmp: What are the expected lifespans of various capacitor
types? I don't have any truly ancient systems, but some of them are
coming up on the 20 yr mark. When should I look into replacing the
old caps?
This is a well known problem among TV repairmen (my brother is one).
Early failure of electroytics is becoming increasingly common. I've
had to replace about half of them in my vcr power supply and it's only
5 years old! OTOH I'm using a 40-year old radio where they are still
in good order...
Early tantalums are another problem area. If one goes, replace them
all.
--
Cheers,
Stan Barr stanb(a)dial.pipex.com
The future was never like this!
9:07 a.m.
New subject: Faulty capacitors.
This is a well known problem among TV repairmen (my
brother is one).
Early failure of electroytics is becoming increasingly common. I've
had to replace about half of them in my vcr power supply and it's only
5 years old! OTOH I'm using a 40-year old radio where they are still
in good order...
Early tantalums are another problem area. If one goes, replace them
all.
I would not fret too much about these bum capacitors - in a few years
they will pretty much be out of the market and into the trash.
Since the dawn of (electronics) time, there have been infestations of
poorly made, sometimes counterfeit electronics parts, that foul up the
industry for awhile. Nothing changes.
William Donzelli
aw288(a)osfn.org
1:36 p.m.
New subject: Faulty capacitors.
To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org
Subject: Re: Faulty capacitors.
From: Stan Barr <stanb(a)dial.pipex.com>
Reply-to: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org
Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2002 09:02:14 +0000
Hi,
Brian Chase <vaxzilla(a)jarai.org> said:
This is a well known problem among TV repairmen (my brother is one).
Early failure of electroytics is becoming increasingly common. I've
had to replace about half of them in my vcr power supply and it's only
5 years old! OTOH I'm using a 40-year old radio where they are still
in good order...
Early tantalums are another problem area. If one goes, replace them
all.
Count me in, newly minted tv repairman and already have to replace so
many caps.
Usually that vertical retrace cap.
Otherwise any caps that had water broiled out (baked) from crowded
hot sources. But especially in CTC169 (RCA), two small ones next to
SMPS IC MUST be replaced no matter otherwise fly or HV divider fry
because of B+ overvolting as well as diode. Inexpensive insurance.
Then few remaining is simply bad quality, like leakers and load of
dud mitsubishi pip modules. Easy fix, remove & bypass with two caps.
Most people don't use pip or can stand losing it for less cost.
Mitsubishi sets are one of good ones.
Years ago, I did four recapping Asus P2L97 boards same kind of both
burst tops and popped rubber plug.
Cheers,
Wizard
--
Cheers,
Stan Barr stanb(a)dial.pipex.com
The future was never like this!
4:27 p.m.
New subject: Faulty capacitors.
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7934
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7937
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17 comments
12 participants
participants (12)
-
ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk -
aw288＠osfn.org -
cisin＠xenosoft.com -
erd_6502＠yahoo.com -
jpero＠sympatico.ca -
jrice54＠charter.net -
mtapley＠swri.edu -
sloboyko＠yahoo.com -
stanb＠dial.pipex.com -
thompson＠new.rr.com -
vance＠neurotica.com -
vaxzilla＠jarai.org