6 Feb
2018
6 Feb
'18
11:58 a.m.
The title might suggest to topic is not vintage, but the reason I did this
myself was to facilitate classic computer disk imaging.
I?ve recently given USB drive capability to the MS-DOS 7.1 environment in a
Windows 98SE computer I use for the purpose above. It was a bit of work
configuring the machine to ensure both the MS-DOS drivers and the Windows
98SE drivers co-existed peacefully.
I'm no Windows 98 guru (or MS-DOS guru for that matter) so it may not be
the most efficient or elegant of solutions. However, it worked for me. That
being the case I thought I?d document what I did.
Hopefully the article will be useful to others who might want to do this.
http://www.classic-computers.org.nz/blog/2018-02-05-USB-in-MS-DOS-and-Win98…
Terry (Tez)
7 Feb
7 Feb
12:28 p.m.
Thanks Terry, I need to get my DOS7.1/Win98 Dolch to speak USB, that will be helpful,
particularly the DOS portion. I got my Win98 networked to Win7, it's not that hard
*once you know* and works really well. You have to change one entry in the Win7 registry
and add one package from the unofficial Win98 service pack. If I find my notes I'll
post them here.
Marc
On Feb 6, 2018, at 11:58 AM, Terry Stewart via cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
The title might suggest to topic is not vintage, but the reason I did this
myself was to facilitate classic computer disk imaging.
I?ve recently given USB drive capability to the MS-DOS 7.1 environment in a
Windows 98SE computer I use for the purpose above. It was a bit of work
configuring the machine to ensure both the MS-DOS drivers and the Windows
98SE drivers co-existed peacefully.
I'm no Windows 98 guru (or MS-DOS guru for that matter) so it may not be
the most efficient or elegant of solutions. However, it worked for me. That
being the case I thought I?d document what I did.
Hopefully the article will be useful to others who might want to do this.
http://www.classic-computers.org.nz/blog/2018-02-05-USB-in-MS-DOS-and-Win98…
Terry (Tez)
3:37 p.m.
On Thu, Feb 8, 2018 at 9:28 AM, Curious Marc <curiousmarc3 at gmail.com> wrote:
Thanks Terry, I need to get my DOS7.1/Win98 Dolch to
speak USB, that will
be helpful, particularly the DOS portion. I got my Win98 networked to Win7,
it's not that hard *once you know* and works really well. You have to
change one entry in the Win7 registry and add one package from the
unofficial Win98 service pack. If I find my notes I'll post them here.
Marc
Thanks Marc,
I probably won't attempt networking again (I did once), as I don't have a
crossover cable and it's very convenient just to use the flash drive. It
would be good to know how to do it though and I'm sure other would
appreciate that info.
Cheers
Terry
10:27 p.m.
Here you go:
Networking between Win98 and Win7
On Windows 7, using regedit, set
?HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\System\CurrentControlSet\Control\Lsa\LMCompatibilityLevel? to
?1?
You might need to create the new entry under \lsa as a REG_DWORD, set to 1
On the Win98 machine:
You have to install the Active Directory Extension, part of
the unofficial service pack 3 which you have to download
It's the first option on the install. I installed just that.
Then from there it's regular stuff: put the machines on the same workgroup name,
enable sharing of your folders, permissions, etc...
From Win7, the Win98 machine appears in the Network,
just click on it to browse the shares
From Win98, Win7 is not accessible from the Network
Neighborhood. You have to type
directly the share address in an Explorer toolbar
window like so
\\Workshop\SharedFolder
I had to shorten my share names for this to work, long names did not work.
Marc
On Feb 7, 2018, at 3:37 PM, Terry Stewart via cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
On Thu, Feb 8, 2018 at 9:28 AM, Curious Marc
<curiousmarc3 at gmail.com> wrote:
Thanks Terry, I need to get my DOS7.1/Win98 Dolch to speak USB, that will
be helpful, particularly the DOS portion. I got my Win98 networked to Win7,
it's not that hard *once you know* and works really well. You have to
change one entry in the Win7 registry and add one package from the
unofficial Win98 service pack. If I find my notes I'll post them here.
Marc
Thanks Marc,
I probably won't attempt networking again (I did once), as I don't have a
crossover cable and it's very convenient just to use the flash drive. It
would be good to know how to do it though and I'm sure other would
appreciate that info.
Cheers
Terry
>
> 
8 Feb
8 Feb
12:44 p.m.
On 02/07/2018 11:27 PM, Curious Marc via cctalk wrote:
Here you go:
Networking between Win98 and Win7
On Windows 7, using regedit, set
?HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\System\CurrentControlSet\Control\Lsa\LMCompatibilityLevel?
to ?1? You might need to create the new entry under \lsa as a
REG_DWORD, set to 1
I wonder what that does to the security posture of Windows 7. Though,
chances are good that's not as big a concern for a hobbyist. (Assuming
that they are more responsible about keeping other things up to date
than the average person.)
On the Win98 machine: You have to install the Active
Directory Extension,
part of the unofficial service pack 3 which you have to download It's
the first option on the install. I installed just that.
It's been too long. Is the AD Extension strictly necessary on Windows
98? I thought that was to allow 98 to brows DFS and as such wasn't
strictly needed to use old classic \\server\share UNC format.
Then from there it's regular stuff: put the
machines on the same workgroup
name, enable sharing of your folders, permissions, etc...
ACK I expect that it's standard SMB networking (woes).
From Win7, the Win98 machine appears in the Network,
just click on it
to browse the shares
*nod*
From Win98, Win7 is not accessible from the Network
Neighborhood. You
have to type directly the share address in an Explorer toolbar window
like so \\Workshop\SharedFolder I had to shorten my share names for this
to work, long names did not work.
I wonder if this is an issue with Windows 98 not doing something, or an
issue with Windows 7 not sending out broadcasts.
This sounds like classic SMB browse master related issues. (I wonder if
WINS server might help.)
Oh God, the bad old days of SMB.
Follow up question. - What protocol did you use? TCP/IP? I assume
that Windows 7 doesn't have NetBEUI. (I've not looked and I know
Microsoft was trying to deprecate it.)
Thank you for sharing Marc. :-)
--
Grant. . . .
unix || die
10 Feb
10 Feb
4:28 p.m.
Dredging up an old thread, I'd like to report that I found some decent
mini B-to-USB A cables from Monoprice.com. They're advertised as 28/24
AWG 3 ft. long. They ran $1.13 each and look to be fit for use.
--Chuck
11 Feb
11 Feb
5:47 a.m.
On 11/02/18 00:28, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote:
Dredging up an old thread, I'd like to report that
I found some decent
mini B-to-USB A cables from Monoprice.com. They're advertised as 28/24
AWG 3 ft. long. They ran $1.13 each and look to be fit for use.
--Chuck
How do you go about testing them? Do you just use a device that is known
to require (say) 2A and check that it runs happily or have you rigged up
something to draw 2A and then check that you don't see a voltage drop
(and/or smell/see burning!)?
Antonio
--
Antonio Carlini
arcarlini at iee.org
9:37 a.m.
On 02/11/2018 05:47 AM, Antonio Carlini via cctalk wrote:
How do you go about testing them? Do you just use a
device that is known
to require (say) 2A and check that it runs happily or have you rigged up
something to draw 2A and then check that you don't see a voltage drop
(and/or smell/see burning!)?
Easier than that--I just measure the resistance.
--Chuck
7 Feb
7 Feb
7:20 p.m.
On 02/06/2018 12:58 PM, Terry Stewart via cctalk wrote:
The title might suggest to topic is not vintage, but
the reason I did
this myself was to facilitate classic computer disk imaging.
I'd think that something from ~20 years ago is indeed vintage. (It's
closer to the 25 year old requirement for cards to be vintage, than
not.) Just not quite as vintage as some of the other topics on cctalk.
I?ve recently given USB drive capability to the MS-DOS
7.1 environment
in a Windows 98SE computer I use for the purpose above. It was a bit of
work configuring the machine to ensure both the MS-DOS drivers and the
Windows 98SE drivers co-existed peacefully.
Intriguing.
I figured that such was possible, but I've never tried.
I'm no Windows 98 guru (or MS-DOS guru for that
matter) so it may not
be the most efficient or elegant of solutions. However, it worked for
me. That being the case I thought I?d document what I did.
I thought there were alternate config.sys and autoexec.bat files that
were used if you chose to reboot to MS-DOS mode, and possibly if you hit
F8 and chose command line during boot.
Quick Google searches make me think that the MS-DOS mode files are named
config.dos and autoexec.dos. Then Windows will rename them when you
select reboot into MS-DOS mode.
Hopefully the article will be useful to others who
might want to do this.
http://www.classic-computers.org.nz/blog/2018-02-05-USB-in-MS-DOS-and-Win98…
Thank you for sharing.
I'm filing that away for future use.
--
Grant. . . .
unix || die
8:14 p.m.
I thought there were alternate config.sys and
autoexec.bat files that
were used if you chose to reboot to MS-DOS mode, and
possibly if you hit F8
and chose command line during boot.
Yes, the files you speak of are config.dos and autoexec.dos. These
confused me at first because I thought just as you did. I put the driver
files in there. However, those files seem to be associated with the
PREVIOUS MS-DOS version (if one exists) prior to installation of Windows
98, NOT the CLI of Windows 98 (MS-DOS 7.1). There is an option when
starting Windows 98 to boot to an earlier version of MS-DOS. If this
earlier version is selected, then config.dos and autoexec.dos are read and
processed as config.sys and autoexec.bat for the DOS boot. Otherwise, if
booting the Windows 98 (MS-DOS 7.1) CLI, these files are ignored and only
autoexec.bat and config.sys (if they exist) are processed.
Initially, I thought booting to the previous DOS install (in my case MS-DOS
6.2) would solve the USB problem, and I simply called up the older DOS
(MS-DOS 6.2) with the drivers using those *.dos files. However, I was then
crippled by only being able to use a USB drive with FAT16 and a small
capacity. I needed an MS-DOS 7.1 environment to give me FAT 32 hence the
config.sys "menu" system.
Terry (Tez)
On Thu, Feb 8, 2018 at 4:20 PM, Grant Taylor via cctalk <
cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
On 02/06/2018 12:58 PM, Terry Stewart via cctalk
wrote:
The title might suggest to topic is not vintage,
but the reason I did
this myself was to facilitate classic computer disk imaging.
I'd think that something from ~20 years ago is indeed vintage. (It's
closer to the 25 year old requirement for cards to be vintage, than not.)
Just not quite as vintage as some of the other topics on cctalk.
I?ve recently given USB drive capability to the MS-DOS 7.1 environment in
a Windows 98SE computer I use for the purpose
above. It was a bit of work
configuring the machine to ensure both the MS-DOS drivers and the Windows
98SE drivers co-existed peacefully.
Intriguing.
I figured that such was possible, but I've never tried.
I'm no Windows 98 guru (or MS-DOS guru for that matter) so it may not be
the most efficient or elegant of solutions.
However, it worked for me.
That being the case I thought I?d document what I did.
I thought there were alternate config.sys and autoexec.bat files that were
used if you chose to reboot to MS-DOS mode, and possibly if you hit F8 and
chose command line during boot.
Quick Google searches make me think that the MS-DOS mode files are named
config.dos and autoexec.dos. Then Windows will rename them when you select
reboot into MS-DOS mode.
Hopefully the article will be useful to others who might want to do this.
http://www.classic-computers.org.nz/blog/2018-02-05-USB-in-M
S-DOS-and-Win98.htm
Thank you for sharing.
I'm filing that away for future use.
--
Grant. . . .
unix || die
8:53 p.m.
On 02/07/2018 09:14 PM, Terry Stewart wrote:
Yes, the files you speak of are config.dos and
autoexec.dos.? These
confused me at first because I thought just as you did. I put the driver
files in there. However, those files seem to be associated with the
PREVIOUS MS-DOS version (if one exists) prior to installation of Windows
98, NOT the CLI of Windows 98 (MS-DOS 7.1).? There is an option when
starting Windows 98 to boot to an earlier version of MS-DOS.? If this
earlier version is selected, then config.dos and autoexec.dos are read
and processed as config.sys and autoexec.bat for the DOS boot.
Otherwise, if booting the Windows 98 (MS-DOS 7.1) CLI, these files are
ignored and only autoexec.bat and config.sys (if they exist) are processed.
According to the following link from IBM, the process we are both
thinking of is valid, just using different files.
http://ps-2.kev009.com/pcpartnerinfo/ctstips/c546.htm
Initially, I thought booting to the previous DOS
install (in my case
MS-DOS 6.2) would solve the USB problem, and I simply called up the
older DOS (MS-DOS 6.2) with the drivers using those *.dos files.
However, I was then crippled by only being able to use a USB drive with
FAT16 and a small capacity.? I needed an MS-DOS 7.1 environment to give
me FAT 32 hence the config.sys "menu" system.
Ya. MS-DOS < 7.x doesn't understand FAT-32 drives. - I think there
are drivers that you can load to add support for it. Or you can just
use MSDOS.SYS, IO.SYS, and COMMAND.COM from Windows 9x.
--
Grant. . . .
unix || die
8:58 p.m.
On 02/07/2018 09:53 PM, Grant Taylor via cctalk wrote:
According to the following link from IBM, the process
we are both
thinking of is valid, just using different files.
http://ps-2.kev009.com/pcpartnerinfo/ctstips/c546.htm
That link mentions ExittoDOS.pif, and searches for it turn up related
information about dosstart.bat.
I'd suggest digging around for them and some web searches.
I don't currently have a 9x (V)M to test things on.
--
Grant. . . .
unix || die
9:19 p.m.
Having trouble with that link; any tips?
m
----- Original Message -----
From: "Grant Taylor via cctalk" <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
To: <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2018 11:58 PM
Subject: Re: How to enable USB drives in both Windows 98SE AND MS-DOS 7.1.
On 02/07/2018 09:53 PM, Grant Taylor via cctalk
wrote:
According to the following link from IBM, the
process we are both
thinking of is valid, just using different files.
http://ps-2.kev009.com/pcpartnerinfo/ctstips/c546.htm
That link mentions ExittoDOS.pif, and searches for it turn up related
information about dosstart.bat.
I'd suggest digging around for them and some web searches.
I don't currently have a 9x (V)M to test things on.
--
Grant. . . .
unix || die
8 Feb
8 Feb
1:27 a.m.
That link mentions ExittoDOS.pif, and searches for it
turn up related
information about dosstart.bat.
I'd suggest digging around for them and some web
searches.
Hmm..interesting.
From a brief search and a test it seems using these
files (or at least ones
similar to those described) may have allowed use of the
MS-DOS drivers in
MS-DOS 7.1 but only AFTER a reboot from the GUI. According to this..
http://madsenworld.dk/con_auto/index-uk.htm#dosstart
..dosstart.bat seems to be used when you EXIT from Windows and reboot to
DOS, rather than the start of a boot. .
As to ExittoDOS.pif, this doesn't seem to exist on a Windows 98SE install.
What does exist are three PIF files called Dosprmpt, MSDOS mode for games
and MSDOS modes for games with EMS and XMS support. I found you can edit a
config.sys and autoexec.bat box as part of the program's properties.
HOWEVER, these configs only seem to take effect with exiting Windows from
"Shut Down" --> "Restart in MSDOS mode". I can't see anywhere
how you can
use these BEFORE the GUI is loaded. Certainly going straight to the
command line doesn't load them. What IS loaded when you do that is what's
ever in the existing config.sys and autoexec.bat.
As I don't want to waste time loading the GUI first, I'll stick with what
I've done. It works and is quite efficient...but it does seem strange
there is no built-in facility to select an alternative Config.sys and
autoexec.bat if the user is going straight for the built in CLI on boot?
You would think that would be an obvious need. It's always possible I
might have overlooked something, although I did spend a fair amount of time
in the search, and testing various permutations.
Terry (Tez)
On Thu, Feb 8, 2018 at 5:58 PM, Grant Taylor via cctalk <
cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
On 02/07/2018 09:53 PM, Grant Taylor via cctalk
wrote:
According to the following link from IBM, the
process we are both
thinking of is valid, just using different files.
http://ps-2.kev009.com/pcpartnerinfo/ctstips/c546.htm
That link mentions ExittoDOS.pif, and searches for it turn up related
information about dosstart.bat.
I'd suggest digging around for them and some web searches.
I don't currently have a 9x (V)M to test things on.
--
Grant. . . .
unix || die
4:03 p.m.
As to ExittoDOS.pif, this doesn't seem to exist on
a Windows 98SE install.
If I remember well, the ExitToDOS file gets created automatically the first time you exit
to DOS manually from Win98. I use it all the time to go back and forth from the DOS
environment to the GUI (go back to GUI typing WIN). But like you I have it boot directly
to DOS as the default.
Marc
>
7 Feb
7 Feb
9:30 p.m.
Back in the W98SE days I bought USB sticks that came with drivers, so W98 has never been a
problem.
Another approach for DOS if the system has 'boot from USB' capability is to just
make a bootable DOS7 USB stick.
Stick in: DOS, stick out: WIN98/XP/VISTA etc.; transfer files to heart's content.
Excellent writeup; thanks, Tez!
m
----- Original Message -----
From: "Terry Stewart via cctalk" <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
To: "Grant Taylor" <cctalk at gtaylor.tnetconsulting.net>; "General
Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2018 11:14 PM
Subject: Re: How to enable USB drives in both Windows 98SE AND MS-DOS 7.1.
I thought there were alternate config.sys and
autoexec.bat files that
were used if you chose to reboot to MS-DOS mode, and
possibly if you hit F8
and chose command line during boot.
Yes, the files you speak of are config.dos and autoexec.dos. These
confused me at first because I thought just as you did. I put the driver
files in there. However, those files seem to be associated with the
PREVIOUS MS-DOS version (if one exists) prior to installation of Windows
98, NOT the CLI of Windows 98 (MS-DOS 7.1). There is an option when
starting Windows 98 to boot to an earlier version of MS-DOS. If this
earlier version is selected, then config.dos and autoexec.dos are read and
processed as config.sys and autoexec.bat for the DOS boot. Otherwise, if
booting the Windows 98 (MS-DOS 7.1) CLI, these files are ignored and only
autoexec.bat and config.sys (if they exist) are processed.
Initially, I thought booting to the previous DOS install (in my case MS-DOS
6.2) would solve the USB problem, and I simply called up the older DOS
(MS-DOS 6.2) with the drivers using those *.dos files. However, I was then
crippled by only being able to use a USB drive with FAT16 and a small
capacity. I needed an MS-DOS 7.1 environment to give me FAT 32 hence the
config.sys "menu" system.
Terry (Tez)
On Thu, Feb 8, 2018 at 4:20 PM, Grant Taylor via cctalk <
cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
On 02/06/2018 12:58 PM, Terry Stewart via cctalk
wrote:
The title might suggest to topic is not vintage,
but the reason I did
this myself was to facilitate classic computer disk imaging.
I'd think that something from ~20 years ago is indeed vintage. (It's
closer to the 25 year old requirement for cards to be vintage, than not.)
Just not quite as vintage as some of the other topics on cctalk.
I?ve recently given USB drive capability to the MS-DOS 7.1 environment in
a Windows 98SE computer I use for the purpose
above. It was a bit of work
configuring the machine to ensure both the MS-DOS drivers and the Windows
98SE drivers co-existed peacefully.
Intriguing.
I figured that such was possible, but I've never tried.
I'm no Windows 98 guru (or MS-DOS guru for that matter) so it may not be
the most efficient or elegant of solutions.
However, it worked for me.
That being the case I thought I?d document what I did.
I thought there were alternate config.sys and autoexec.bat files that were
used if you chose to reboot to MS-DOS mode, and possibly if you hit F8 and
chose command line during boot.
Quick Google searches make me think that the MS-DOS mode files are named
config.dos and autoexec.dos. Then Windows will rename them when you select
reboot into MS-DOS mode.
Hopefully the article will be useful to others who might want to do this.
http://www.classic-computers.org.nz/blog/2018-02-05-USB-in-M
S-DOS-and-Win98.htm
Thank you for sharing.
I'm filing that away for future use.
--
Grant. . . .
unix || die
8:22 p.m.
I recall using these drivers several years ago.
As I recall, the problem is that they're not amenable to hot-swapping.
That is, is you're using a USB flash drive with them, there was no code
that allowed you to remove the drive and substitute another without
rebooting.
Has this situation changed?
On a related note, I have several Ralink RT5370 USB Wifi dongles that I
find to be quite useful.
Has anyone gotten one to work with Windows 98SE (I won't even bring up
MS-DOS)?
I wondered if I could find a Windows 2000 miniport driver for it, that
it might work in Windows 98.
--Chuck
8 Feb
8 Feb
12:11 a.m.
I recall using these drivers several years ago.
As I recall, the problem is that they're not
amenable to hot-swapping.
That is, is you're using a USB flash drive with them, there was no code
that allowed you to remove the drive and substitute another without
rebooting.
Has this situation changed?
Good question Chuck. Certainly the Windows 98SE one allows hot swapping if
you "stop" the drive but I haven't tried swapping with the MS-DOS ones. I
would doubt it as there is no facility in MS-DOS I know to "unmount" one
and recognise another separately from driver load on boot.
Fortunately this functionality isn't important to me as I ever only use the
USB sticks to file transfer so one per sitting is all I need.
Terry (Tez)
2506
days inactive
2511
days old
17 comments
6 participants
participants (6)
-
a.carlini＠ntlworld.com -
cclist＠sydex.com -
cctalk＠gtaylor.tnetconsulting.net -
curiousmarc3＠gmail.com -
mhs.stein＠gmail.com -
terry＠webweavers.co.nz